Can ya help an old man restore a beast?

[geezer]

I'm over 50 & started playing guitars almost a year ago. My best friend who used to rock hard & make these things talk recently died & his wife gave me this thing & said he wanted me to have it. So, I would like to keep his memory alive by bringing this old thing back to life. The problem is I live in a one horse town & the music store here is ...let's just say, not the sharpest tool in the box. The Internet? Too much info & opinions. Went to Squier's/Fenders site, but well let's just say, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box either! LOL I put the middle pickup back in place for the pic's, but no copper wiring on it. It's much bigger, I mean taller, then the middle pickup on "my" strat and has to magnets. Can anyone tell me where I can find original or as close to as possible, to bring this old thing back to life? Here's a few pics of it. I could also ad a pic of the middle pickup removed if that would help. Thanks in advance for the help. Geezer

[JohnH]

Welcome to GN2, and sorry to hear about your friend.

Whats this about over 50 being old? (Im 51)

It shouldn't be too hard to fix it up, but what else do you know, such as what model is it and how old? Photos of the pickup, and also inside the electronics when you take the back panels off will help. Looking at the back, we can see the trem cover (does it have a tremelo?) and two other covers. If you take them all off and post a clear photos as you can that will help.

cheers

John

[cynical1]

Yeah, we can get you rolling again. Count on a bunch of questions and the willingness to learn more about this then you ever wanted to...and we can fix you up.

But I'm forgetting my manners... Greetings and welcome to the Nutz house.

One thing I did find interesting was the serial number.

"USA Squiers:
USA Squires are very rare and usually have a E serial number and were made for less than a year spanning 1989 and 1990"

...but yours clearly says Made in Korea on it.

The Tele style, with an HSH configuration...and what appears to be a FR Trem...hmmmm... I almost have to wonder if this wasn't a parts guitar your friend assembled. The body and control configuration looks more Ibanez or Yamaha then Fender...but I am no Squier expert...but to me, this is a very unique looking Squier.

It looks like you've got some type of Floyd Rose trem-leo on there versus a standard Fender type rig. No big deal, but does it work, or is it blocked in the trem cavity?

Anyway, do the other pickups work? It's possible he never used it and just had it disconnected, but remounted to fill the hole.

As far as finding the exact pickup you had, it really isn't that big of a deal, esthetically, and you may be able to improve the tonal characteristics of the guitar by putting something else in there. And there is no shortage of aftermarket single coil, or stacked single coil pickups out there.

The best thing you could do is take a clearly focused shot of the control cavity so we can get an idea of the wiring.

That's all I can think of for now...more questions are sure to follow, though...

And BTW, we don't call it old here. We call it Judgmental...and some of us are more judgmental then others...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[geezer]

Thanks guys, Sorry about the crappy pics. The wife took the good cam today, & I can't keep still enough to take clear pics with what's here now, but maybe by this eve or for sure tomorrow. We were in Korea together in 82. He went back in I think 85 and brought this back with him. I remember, "Damn this thing is loud"..It sounded great! The pots were loose & worn and I bought, what I was told was the same, but the #'s on them were different. Same thing with the 5 way switch. Original was plastic, the one I have in it (not soldered up yet btw) is metal. Correct on the Floyd Rose tremlo. It seams to be functional, but I haven't been able to find the arm for it, and it obviously is strung up yet. The arm off my strat won't fit it. Thanks for reminding btw. Also looking for that. I'm pretty sure he bought as it is, with the exception he had it painted to this color shortly after buying it. It used to be a sparkly red. I remember when he painted it. Personally, I thought he made a good decision. Thanks again for replying so quickly and I will be back with the pics ya asked for. P.S. Thought I was the only person left alive that used "Happy Trails" Cool!
Geezer

[cynical1]

Well, it intrigued me that this guitar looked so different then any Tele I'd ever seen, so I went looking around trying to figure out what is was.

This looks pretty close, though in more pieces then yours:



The place I found this tags it as a Squier HM Telecaster. I found several references to HM Strats, with your pickup and FR setup, but not much on the HM telecasters.

Just as an aside, did you have a preference on how the pickups are selected, or any other little embellishments you'd like to add?

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[4real]

That is a cool looking guitar and probably quite rare. (squier tend to put out short lived models and experiment with ideas that follow trends, some of them very good) My squier strat is similarly 'top loaded' and the back cavity plates are near identical.

Interesting improved access neck plate there too, something that has only just started to appear on the highest end real fenders like the new JB strat...hmmm.

The pickups on my strat were more like genuine fenders with magnetic poles, so there is no magnet under them and no so 'tall' as a result so you probably want something like that to fit in there...they should not be too hard to find I suspect.

It looks like a great guitar with quite a few features with a touch of 80's pointyness but with a more conservative colour and tele body that I really like there, I'd say it is a keeper. If you wanted to go "nutz" with the wiring I suspect there are lots of schemes that would suit with an HSH pickup format. A lot depends on what you want to do with the guitar.

PS...my squier strat was "made in Indonesia" while my tele might be "made in china" from memory...I'm not sure that these things make that much of a difference.

PPS...50 next february...i think the forum has my birthdayt wrong and don't see how to fix it LOL

[geezer]

Thanks for all the nice words everyone, ya'll are alright. I got the good camera back from the ole-lady, Shhh, & probably went a little too crazy with the pics. I don't want to burn up your bandwidth so I will just post a few more. First to answer a couple questions, I'm not sure if the humbucks work or not. Only been playing not quite a year & have been working on that aspect more so the the nuts & bolts part, other then tuning, tuning, oh & tuning. The single is taller then my strat, it sits 7/8" tall 3 1/4" long approx. My ole lady actually bought the 2 new pots. and the diode or resistor?? She was told they will work. They're a lot bigger, but seem to fit fine. She also bought me a new 5 way switch (YM-50). Not sure if it's any good or not. The orig was white plastic, & didn't have any #'s on it. (I screwed it up soldering!) This one seems to be a better quality, but??? It also has the Floyd Rose II tremlo, missing the arm though. I really want this thing to ROCK HARD ie..(UFO, or Judas Priest old school hard) for when I am in the mood! It sure use too! Maybe Rick (orig owner) will listen in & laugh at me from time to time.?. Here's a few more pics. Well, I will have pen & paper in hand next time or I guess I could just hit print, right? LOL . Thanks again everyone. Can't tell ya how much I appreciate all the help.
Happy Trails,
Geezer





[img src="i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz326/troynsheilaw/8743cd66.jpg"]

[ashcatlt]

That's not a pickup. It's a bobbin, some pole pieces and magnets. Without wire, though, it's not good for much other than sticking things to your fridge.

[geezer]

Yea, I know. But it was a pickup at one time. Anyway, kept it for size ref.

[newey]

Hello geezer! (From another one . . .!)

The YM-50 is one of the oddball "import-style" 5-way switches. These things have often caused confusion, so please post some pix of this item so we all see what you're dealing with.

If you plan on working on guitars, it is highly advisable to have a multimeter. It can save you a lot of grief and extra work in the long run.

Most Strat single-coil pickups will fit the hole OK, and I wouldn't worry too much about getting a replacement that's not an original Squier. Pickup changes are so common, they're hardly even considered a modification these days, I don't think you'll destroy the original value, whatever it may be, of this.

The height of Strat pickups does vary, some of the "hotter" coils are taller. When mounted in a pickguard, there's usually enough room underneath that they can be adjusted down so as to be at the same height. You don't have that ability, presumably, so you may have to watch what you order.

[cynical1]

Yes, it was a pickup. You could have it rewound, if it is more of a sentimental versus functional thing. Rewinding pickups is normally more then you can buy them outright, but it is an option.

There are several pickup manufactuerers that folks here can steer you towards. You'll hear GFS, Wilde (Lawrence), DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan and the list goes on from there.

Not knowing how the switching worked on that guitar renders our suggestions possibly moot.

If the center coil is used with split coils from the two humbuckers, and you want to keep that sequence intact, then a true single coil is what you'd be looking for. There are a few Ibanez schemes that do that out of the box.

If you just want a noise free guitar then a stacked, or mini-humbucker in a single coil footprint may be the way you want to go. Then it's just a simple switch, pots and you're out the door.

Seeing as how Fender stopped making that Squier decades ago the odds of finding a diagram are pretty slim. So, do you have any preferences or ideas for wiring the guitar back up?

Was the guitar gutted when you got it?

There was what appeared to be a battery box in there too. Any idea what that was for?

I know it seems like a lot of questions, but in the end it will make you life easier and your results more to your liking.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[geezer]

Okay, first newey, then cynical1, only because that's the order they came in. No offense. Posting a pic of the YM-50 for ya. Like I said earlier, the wife picked it up for me, so??? I have a multi-meter, but I don't plan on working on guitars, just this one. And with a little help and luck, hopefully it will be the last. I am really enjoying playing though. It seems to come pretty easy to me. I have my other guitar set up mostly for a "country" type of sound and I pretty much have left it where I have it set now. I grew up on Rock, & I am hoping to set this one up loud enough to take me back to the good old day's, if ya know what I mean.








Hey cynical1, To be honest with ya, I f***'d the middle pickup up. Well, when I got the guitar, it would'nt play. It was all together and wired so I searched the net and got my multi-meter out and started trouble shooting. I got readings on every thing (if ya ask me what, I'll have to check again) except the single. It showed nothing. I figured I would try to look for the problem. Whatever problem it had, by the time I was finished with it, it was terminal! As far as how it was wired originally, Squier/Fender has obsolete guitar and vintage guitar schematics. Although I believe I have found what I think is the same thing, your statement is still true. we may never know how it was orig. wired. Ultimately, I just want a good sounding instrument that I can turn up a bit and still sound good. I don't want walmart parts in it, but don't need gold plated either. Right now I am clueless to the different parts and manufactuers and what they do & don't do, but I am starting to learn. The orig single coil, I think only had two wires coming from it unlike the other two which have three. It was wired when I got it, but had some really really bad solder work, so I didn't write down what went where. (my 2nd mistake)
A battery box? Not that I am aware of, but...I'm embarrassed to say, I am as green as they come. reading your last post, for a minute, I thought you were speaking another language. LOL This is Guitar 101 for me! Okee dokee, one last note. I got to show you the case it came in. I promise ya'll, seriously, coolest case ever! This was how my friend's wife presented it to me. Thanks again, I will be checking back later.
Geezer

[newey]

Love those old Dodge Tradesman vans, a buddy of mine had a customized one back during the van craze of the mid-'70s.

OK, regarding the switch, please check its functioning with the multimeter before we lead you down the wrong track here. Set the meter to read resistance (Ω). If two lugs are connected you should see either 0Ω or perhaps a very low reading. If two lugs are not connected, you should see an infinite resistance, usually reads as "out of range" or "over limit".

Put the switch lever all the way to one side and check to see which lugs are connected , then move the lever over one click, and test again. Make up a chart of your findings.

We are looking to find the "common" or "pole" lugs, on most of these switches it's the 2 middle ones, so your chart should show something like:

3-2-1-C C-3-2-1

The Connections are probably like this:

3-2-1-C C-3-2-1 (for position 5 on the switch)

3-2-1-C C-3-2-1 (For position 3 on the switch)

3-2-1-C C-3-2-1 (For position 1 on the switch)

You will have noticed that the lugs numbered 1-2-3 correspond to switch positions 1-3-5. What about positions 2 and 4 on the switch? Well, those "in-between" positions just combine the lugs on either side, so for example in position 2, lugs 1 and 2 will both connect to common for each pole of the switch.

You can think of this as really being two separate switches in a single housing. Each side operates independently unless you connect the two common lugs together.

Read here for more info. Again, your switch probably operates like the one illustrated but let's double check to be sure.

Off Shore Lever Switches

Now, there are two critical questions that will dictate what you can do with the wiring:

Is the 5-way switch the only switch you have, or are perhaps the pots you have of the push/pull variety?

And, second, when you said that the humbucker pickups had three wires coming out of them, is one of those three a bare wire or a braided metal wire? What colors are the wires?

As you've already discovered, getting into the internals of a pickup is no easy task. Assuming you want to use these pickups, if the third wire is a bare shield or ground wire, and not a "coil split wire", the wiring options are going to be limited. Which makes things pretty easy for you.

If the 5-way switch is the only switch that's going in, and if the two humbucker pickups are "2-wires-plus-shield" types, then your wiring is going to be exactly like a Stratocaster. You'll be wiring the HBs just as if they were single coil pickups, and your 5-way switch will give the usual Strat combinations.

If, on the other hand, more switches are involved or if the humbuckers are true three-wire HBs, more options are possible.

[cynical1]

Newey has given you some very good insights on your switch. That should make your life much easier.

And I spent the last few days reading Greek on my own design, so don't feel like an orphan.

Based on what I read so far, I think your best bet is to go with a stacked or blade single coil humbucker. It keeps things simple and the guitar will be quiet in any selection you make on your selector switch.

Granted, if you stick around here long enough we'll have you drilling holes all over that guitar...

A lot of people here swear by GFS. I'd recommend you check out the blade single coils at Wilde as long as you're shopping. You can e-mail Becky and Bill with any questions you have and they'll get back to you with their suggestions on what would work best in your guitar.

And forget the battery cover inference. It looks like it's just an access cover to get to the jack.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[geezer]

Thanks a bunch for all the advice. I can't tell ya how much I appreciate ya'll! Yep, the third wire on the HB's is the ground. The two colored wires inside the colored shield of the HB's are each red & white together with the braided ground. One set is wrapped in red, and the other green. I will check the 5 way switch tomorrow, gett'n pretty late now. I been working on the van all day. I have decided to paint it the same as the guitar. Anyway, that's the only switch. The pots only turn. No up & down action. Thanks cynical1. I will see what Becky has to say. And thank you too newey for all the good info. I will read the link you posted and probably read your post 5 or 6 more times befor I completely understand what you are saying. I get the "just " of it, but it's pretty normal for me to have to go over something several times befor the light goes on, if ya know what I mean. Thanks again. C-Ya, Geezer

[newey]

Yep, the third wire on the HB's is the ground. The two colored wires inside the colored shield of the HB's are each red & white together with the braided ground. One set is wrapped in red, and the other green.

OK, so each pickup has only a single red and white wire, plus a braided shield? And, on one pickup those 2 wires are wrapped in a red covering, green on the other?

If so, it sounds like the red and green wrappings are to distinguish the one for use in the bridge position from the one for use in the neck position. If so, everything I said about using the basic Strat wiring above remains true, there is no coil splitting possible without internal work to these pickups.

When you check the switch with your meter, also put it on these pickups. Set the meter to read resistance (Ω) in the 20K range and measure from the white wire to the red wire on each. If your meter is of the "auto-ranging" type, then just let it auto-range and do its thing.

You should get a reading of about 10K to 15K on each, but some "super-hot" HBs may be even higher. This will tell us if these pickups are working properly before you wire them into the guitar, and it may also disclose which one belongs at the bridge position- the higher reading one in your test goes at the bridge.

[cynical1]

Newey said what I was going to say...just quicker...

If you do e-mail Becky at Wilde, giving her those readings will really help them nail down the right pickup for you. And the blade humbucker in a single coil footprint is probably your best bet from them, but any stacked or hum-canceling single coil sized humbucker will do the job and keep your wiring basic to install and the controls simple to operate.

HTC1

EDIT: While looking for something else, I found this on your YM-50 switch:



Since you don't have 4 wire humbuckers, it's really a question of whether you want the standard Strat pickup selections, or if you want to sacrifice one of the traditional positions to get both humbuckers sans the middle. Or you could keep the traditional sequence intact and just toss in a bridge/neck on switch. The bridge\neck on switch would allow you a way to keep the traditional Strat switch positions, plus allow you to grab the neck & bridge humbuckers, plus all three pickups if the mood strikes.