A combo stand - design and construction

[JohnH]

I was on the Marshall forum and came across a thread about amp stands which included a post by Josh Childers of Atlas stands

Atlas Stands

Josh comes across as being very dedicated to the needs of his customers and the design of his products. Discussion moved onto combo stands. I liked the products and Josh’s approach so I made some suggestions.

Putting a combo on a stand to lift it up and tilt it gives it much better projection, but too often this is done insecurely with an old chair or a couple of milk-crates. Not the best and not safe at all. Josh's designs are a cut above the average stand that you can buy, in quality and strength, and feature natural hardwood and attention to detail.

My amp is a Marshall DSL401 combo. Mostly Josh’s designs are usually natural finish but my thoughts are, for a stand beneath a Marshall, it should look less like furniture and more like road-ready gig equipment, black rather than natural wood to highlight the amp itself. Robustness is key, but portable and not too heavy.

The upshot is that Josh is going to build a prototype combo stand for me, based on these ideas, and hopefully others will like it too. So this thread will be about the design and construction of a new combo amp stand. I’m posting it because I think it great to promote and discuss good design, and i want to help him out.

It’s going to be based around my DSL401, but with consideration of making it a versatile piece of gear that can support many different models. So please offer any comments, and we will post pictures as it develops.

But first the intended subject:

Here is the amp, and a sketch with all the dimensions.







Key considerations are how the back panel is laid out with respect to where it can be supported, and keeping airflow for the speaker, and ventilation for the tubes.

Based on that, the stand is going to be 14” wide, with support up the back to the top of the solid back-panel section, open so not to impede air and sound

The feet of the amp straddle the stand, and it should also be able to support many other combos. The latest thought is to add a bracket for a mic stand – a very useful feature and an end to dangling mics in front!

Watch this space, build pics promised soon...!
Cheers
John

[sumgai]

John,

If this is truly going to be custom, then now's the time to think of "making room" for a fan, to blow on the tubes. It would not have to be permanent, it could be modular to fit either side (or even anywhere along the top-back rail...), and that would allow for a low-cost "upgrade" for those who need it, yet the basic unit remains at a fair price, for those that don't need it.

Just a thought, lonely though it was....




sumgai

[reTrEaD]

I've never seen an amp stand that did what I think an amp stand should be able to do. The environment you play in varies widely. Sometimes you need just tilt. Other times it's best to have a lot of elevation with no tilt at all. This depends on how high the stage itself is elevated.

A great stand would have a lot of range in both tilt and elevation, have a right-sized footprint for enough stability without wasting too much space, keep the center of mass near the center of the footprint, and fold into a small size for transport.

[JohnH]

Good comments, I'm sure Josh will be interested.

On the fans, I think that could often be a good idea. In my case I have it covered because I already added internal fans to my amp, since these amps are notorious for getting hot. Josh has an option of integral fans built into the stand, and in fact he has quite a few interesting options for his custom designed stands:

options

But a fan could also be added attached to the back rail, and then it might be more easily adjusted for position, (though also perhaps more easily knocked)

Positioning versatility is valuable. Its a compromise between simplicity, robustness, weight, size and stabilty. I will be very happy with a single position, but if considering adjustments, tilt angle is probably the easiest to achieve and the most useful.

reTreAd makes a good point about centre of gravity. In the supported position, the C of G should be reasonably close to being above the centre of the area over which the stand supports the amp, and also the footprint area of the stands feet down to the floor. If you look at his website, they look pretty stable to me in that regard.

I had a go at measuring the CofG, and horizontally its about 120mm from the back face (where the handle is - good place for a handle!) and 260mm up from the floor (including the height of the feet). That means that, at a resonable tilt angle of 25 degress, the C of G will be pretty much vertically above the corner where the face of the back support meets that of the base support.

cheers

[JFrankParnell]

i think an integrated guitar stand would be nice. Maybe just a headstock hanger, but maybe also, little bottom arms to support from below. Howbout a hole in the right place where you could insert the bottom part of a standard rack.

edit: oh, he's got that covered, i see.

An integrated beer holder is going to be crucial, as well.

[reTrEaD]

Jan 2, 2012 23:19:58 GMT -5 JFrankParnell said:

An integrated beer holder is going to be crucial, as well.

Good call.

[JohnH]

Josh has been sending messages to show how the stand is coming along. Here are a couple of build pictures:





The construction is in Walnut – a relatively light hardwood, and it looks pretty sturdy – I like it! Seems like the bearing for folding it is also wood.

Just a thought for the future– for a painted design such as this, how about plywood instead? (just to save cost, 5/8” or ¾”)

The finished stand will be based on his ‘Studio’ model, but in black:



BTW, I don’t think I need a built-in beer holder. It’s better to have one of these:



John

[JohnH]

A few more:







It is weighing in at 7lbs 7 oz, or 3.4kg. Not so much with it being as sturdy as it is.

[Teleblooz]

How about an integrated mic holder?

[JohnH]

Good call, and Josh had already thought of it and its going in (he is a good fellow!)

And the finish is getting upgraded from a flat black paint to way more classy black stain to keep the quaility of the wood more evident.

[JohnH]

Josh has been cracking on with finishing the stand. Here are some pictures from yesterday, and its now starting to look very classy indeed in its black dye:

This is the block for the mic mount:



And the dyeing:







cheers

John

[4real]

I'd missed this, bit distracted...but very nice!

There are lots of extra design ideas one could explore...with the amp tilted it would be hard to balance any 'effects' on top for instance.

Some kind of 'isolating' feet perhaps to stop the floor vibrating sympathetically might be nice, especially in a 'studio' as this effect can be quite big in some rooms.

But looks good and is solid and better than having it on the floor. You will be able to see the controls a bit better too...not so on my fender combo wher ethe controls are on top though...

I have mine on a chair...the back of the chair makes a handy place for the amp cover. My other amp forms a 'mini stack' with a matching 15" combo sized extension cab.

I think the black is a great idea...though in a house, wood grain could be a nice look and appease the interior designer who holds sway...

[JohnH]

Pete - thanks for the comments.
Josh from Atlas Stands is watching, and sent these replies:
cheers
John

There are lots of extra design ideas one could explore...with the amp tilted it would be hard to balance any 'effects' on top for instance.

Not so, I build table tops, see attached pic:)

Some kind of 'isolating' feet perhaps to stop the floor vibrating sympathetically might be nice, especially in a 'studio' as this effect can be quite big in some rooms.

All of my amp stands have pointed feet, they isolate the amp from the floor very effectively, this has been in every amp stand I've built from the very beginning. I also use dense felt on the seat and backrest to further isolate the amp from the stand. Thus the amp is twice removed from the vibrations in the floor...

But looks good and is solid and better than having it on the floor. You will be able to see the controls a bit better too...not so on my fender combo wher ethe controls are on top though...

I use AC30s and have no problem reaching the controls, I designed the stands so that when my knee touches the front of the stand I can reach the controls without having to extend my arm any further than usual....

I have mine on a chair...the back of the chair makes a handy place for the amp cover. My other amp forms a 'mini stack' with a matching 15" combo sized extension cab.

I think the black is a great idea...though in a house, wood grain could be a nice look and appease the interior designer who holds sway...

yes, these are very popular with the spouses too...

[Teleblooz]

Jan 6, 2012 18:26:01 GMT -5 4real said:

I have mine on a chair...the back of the chair makes a handy place for the amp cover.

Be careful of this if you're using an open-back combo. My experience has been that if the chair back covers too much of the opening, the amp's sound suffers.

[4real]

Excellent...and a virtual welcome to Josh to G2

I like some of the additions there and the thought that Has gone into it...and sharing teh construction and all that...very well done.

I like the way that 'flip out' guitar stand works...excellent.

Interesting point about the chair...I ensure that the amp has got plenty of ventilation, it does not sit up against the chair back which is not padded other than the cover.

I play in an unusual room though, generally the amp is less than two feet away If I am playing while say, typing here...but otherwise, it is directly in front of a glass wall in a large room with 18' cathedral ceilings with a lot of hard surfaces...so...sound travels this far off the ground and my wildlife might take exception to the noise and a bit of protection from rattling the glass might not be such a bad thing.

My preferred option has always been to make a mini 'stack' on top of a similar sized extension box. It is a closed back, ported 15" and that and a 12" tends to have a kind of cross over effect with any amp and moves a lot of air. However, you'd rarely want to carry the thing about for casual playing and there is a lot to be said for this kind of 'stand.

I've been thinking about some of this kind of thing a bit lately...more specifically a 'chair' or stool for performance and all 'practice. If playing seated, it is generally a good idea to be higher than one's audience and looking about for something 'suitable' and trying to work out ways one could arrange say effects within reach when your feet don't touch the ground.

In fact, an addition to this range and with this quality might be to investigate designs for such a chair...I know there are a few about, many incorporate things like guitar stands and there are many players who are seeing things that are ergonomic to guitar playing. I find it hard to find, say an office chair that does not have arms.

Another idea that I ahve thought might be worth having is a type of stand that will 'lock' in the guitar, perhaps with a combination lock. So, that it is fixed and secure against things like errant audience members walking out with your guitar...or for that matter, having the guitar attached to something like a chair or amp stand making it difficult for chance thieves to just take off with the guitar from the house.

Again though, some well built solid designs and a virtual +1 to Josh

[JohnH]

Almost done now. Josh has added his logo, and finished with a satin poly. It looks good enough to eat!






Just a few items to add now:
1 - put some pocket screws in it for added strength,
2 - attach the mic mount,
3 - attach the felt to the back support,
4 - attach the leather closure strap
5 - mount the carry strap hardware

Cheers

John

[lpf3]

I love the black stain, I liked the "table tops" too- great idea.

I can think of another use for these, unless I missed it in an earlier post- but they could also be used for monitor stands. Back when I was playing out we used a smaller P.A. for our monitors. We didn't have angled speakers for that & were always rigging up different ways to angle our monitors back. These would have really fit the bill.

Good work, Josh-

-lpf2

[D2o]

Jan 8, 2012 16:01:09 GMT -5 lpf3 said:

I love the black stain, I liked the "table tops" too- great idea.

I can think of another use for these, unless I missed it in an earlier post- but they could also be used for monitor stands. Back when I was playing out we used a smaller P.A. for our monitors. We didn't have angled speakers for that & were always rigging up different ways to angle our monitors back. These would have really fit the bill.

Good work, Josh-

-lpf2

Ditto to all of that ... but ...

... <sqwack> attention: would the remaining 1/3 of lpf please report to GN2, stat, over <sqwack> ...

[lpf3]

Jan 8, 2012 16:41:03 GMT -5 D2o said:

Jan 8, 2012 16:01:09 GMT -5 lpf3 said:

I love the black stain, I liked the "table tops" too- great idea.

I can think of another use for these, unless I missed it in an earlier post- but they could also be used for monitor stands. Back when I was playing out we used a smaller P.A. for our monitors. We didn't have angled speakers for that & were always rigging up different ways to angle our monitors back. These would have really fit the bill.

Good work, Josh-

-lpf2

Ditto to all of that ... but ...

... <sqwack> attention: would the remaining 1/3 of lpf please report to GN2, stat, over <sqwack> ...

Ah, silly me- but;
What- you're the only guy who gets to have an imaginary friend? ;D

lpf- 3 ;D

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the real lpf2 would have loved this board- he was an Electronics Engineer.........

[JohnH]

All done now!
Here it is holding Josh's AC30





Soon it will make a journey from the Appalachian Mountains to the Southern Highlands of New South Wales, and we will see how it looks under a Marshall.
cheers

John

[4real]

Very, Very nice!

[JohnH]

During last week, my amp stand arrived, all the way to Australia from Atlas stands in Tennessee. It travelled perfectly, cocooned in Josh’s careful packing.

What a great piece of work. the black laquered finish is very classy but feels durable too. I love the wooden pins, and the mechanism operates smoothly but firmly.



I also like how it folds down into a compact rectangular shape.



In use, the stand opens up and sets naturally into perfect alignment at just over 30 degrees of tilt. There is no need for thumb screws, wing nuts and other bits and pieces that can get out of position, damaged or lost.

Here’s my Marshall DSL401 sitting nicely on it:



The amp is well supported at its base and back, with thick felt pads to isolate it and protect the finish. It’s very stable, pushing the amp in various directions reveals no tendency to tip at all.



There are many nice details, such as the hardwood pins used for the hinge bearings, which are finely made items and much nicer looking than the more obvious alternative of steel bolts.



There is a wood block and bracket to hold a microphone boom. Much neater for micing the amp than trying to clip onto the amp, or placing an extra mic stand that then gets kicked.



I got a gooseneck to attach to the mic mount, and that will also be very useful to get the right mic placement without using up a full mic stand.



There are even strap lugs so that a guitar strap can be used to carry the stand on the shoulder – saving time and a trip from the car when setting up.

Set on the stand, the amp is up of the floor and directed at an optimum angle to fill the room and for listening by the player and audience, without all the sound going into the players knees. It just works a lot better that way. When I played it, the sound is very clear, and it will be an end to all issues of not being able to hear myself in the band.



This is a really nice piece of kit I will no doubt keep it longer than my amp and most of my guitars– Highly recommended, and Josh is a good chap to deal with. Check out his site at:

www.atlas-stands.com/

cheers and thanks Josh

John

[reTrEaD]

Feb 3, 2012 20:14:11 GMT -5 JohnH said:

This is a really nice piece of kit I will no doubt keep it longer than my amp and most of my guitars� Highly recommended, and Josh is a good chap to deal with. Check out his site at:

www.atlas-stands.com/

cheers and thanks Josh

John

John,

Josh has links on the front page of his site, to this thread and threads on other forums. I think that makes for a proper symbiotic relationship.