New Vintage Specs Neck

[phatmarx78]

Ok you guys, I recently purchased a fender Jazzmaster body from around 1964. I have looked into buying a neck equivalent in year for the guitar. The going rate for a neck of this stature is $2000. Im not digging that. A warmoth neck would cost me around $400, but they don't have the clay inlays..

I would like a Jazzmaster neck made to my specs, but I would like it to be made how they made them in the 60's. Clay dots and all.

Anyone have any recommendations?

[reTrEaD]

Read this and decide if you still want clay dots:
jimshine.com/claydots/clay_dots_and_other_fender_inlay.htm

fwiw, it appears 1964 and later used pearloid dots.

[phatmarx78]

And that is worth a lot!!
I think I would still like clay though, my nails won't be digging into them!!

Out of all curiosity though, does anyone know who makes these guitars down to the original method?

[newey]

USA Custom Guitars will make you a 24" scale neck (called the "Shagwire", ha-ha . . ) with just about any options you want.

Base price for a maple/rosewood neck is around $300, and they offer Callaham clay dots for a $20 upcharge.

I've never ordered anything from them, so don't take this as an endorsement, I can't vouch for them. But the skinny I have heard has been all good.

Apart from Warmoth, they're the only other place I know of that does custom 24" necks. Pretty much everyone else just deals in the 25.5" scale Strat and Tele stuff.

[phatmarx78]

Yeah, geeze.. Im reading up on their back contours now. They have a much wider range of customization than any other company I have seen.. I might try them out if they are reasonable enough.

[cynical1]

Newey pegged it. USA Custom Guitars makes some very nice stuff. It's not as overpriced as some folks...who will remain nameless.

For what you'll pay for the neck from USA Customs you'll still come out ahead versus doing it yourself by the time you buy all the tools, frets and especially your time.

If you do get a case of it, PC Woody epoxy wood filler dries to a very light clay color. I would only suggest this on a tight grained fingerboard, like granadillo, as any errant wood filler will be murder to get out of the grain of currently available rosewood.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[newey]

For some reason, I was thinking Jaguar, but you did say "Jazzmaster". Well, they can do that neck as well, obviously not a 24" but 25.5".

[phatmarx78]

Right, but I ran into another scenario. They only use the clay for the rosewood fretboards. Which is great, I will definatley consider getting this for my Jazzmaster body... But they don't use clay inlays for just a Maple fretboard, only the rosewood. I am definatley interested in getting one of those off them!

But for curiosity's sake, does anybody know any other companies/luthiers?

[cynical1]

Most custom builders will put in clay for the markers, if you really want them and are willing to pay for them...and accept the caveat that they can fall out.

There are two schools of thought on this. The first says go for the original item. The wood has stabilized and will probably never move on you unless you do something irreversibly stupid. A good vintage neck in prime condition will cost, as you've already seen.

The other school says buy it built new to your spec. Makes sense, as if you're willing to drop the coin on a custom built neck you should get what you want.

Most builder are not going to advertise they use clay markers. Two reasons. Not much of a market for them, and they were just a typical Leo cheap and dirty cost cutting practice. Not very practical, as they have a nasty habit of coming out.

Clay markers on a new neck strike me as a toupe for your guitar. They may fool some people, but you're gonna know it ain't vintage. There is no mojo or advantage to using clay, in fact it's just the opposite.

Having said that, if you have your heart set on clay markers then a quick Google search for builders in your area is probably your safest bet. This way you can see what their work looks like, play a few guitars and get the exact radius, contour, frets, nut...and markers...that you want.

Good hunting.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[newey]

But they don't use clay inlays for just a Maple fretboard, only the rosewood. I am definatley interested in getting one of those off them!

I thought that Leo only put the clay dots on rosewood boards as well, the maple ones got black phenolic, or so I thought.

[phatmarx78]

Well, now I need to do some research... Do you think this of the '57 duo sonic newer? Is that not clay??

[newey]

Do you think this of the '57 duo sonic newer? Is that not clay??

Got me, I'm no expert on vintage Fenders. The article RT linked to made it sound like the first clay dots were used in '58 on the first Jazzmaster.

[phatmarx78]

Hey guys, so I just talked with Rob from use cutom guitars. I will basically have all my specs and a finish on the neck for about $350, not an exact quote, but still better than warmoth, I believe.

[cynical1]

You're probably and easy $100.00-$200.00 under Warmoth.

To have your radius, your contour, your clay dots, frets, nut and a finish for $350.00 is a very decent price for essentially a one off custom neck.

Keep in mind, it may still require some setup once you get it. This is not uncommon and you should expect it. Do they give you your choice of nuts? I like the Tusq nuts myself, but YMMV.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

No they do not actually, the nut is something I would have to install either myself or have my tech install. They do not supply them, they just cut out for them.. I was thinking bone or brass, but Im not sure. I hear the tusq have a very nice application for players that bend a lot, witch I do... Anyone with some help on understanding/ difficulty of installing a nut, would be great.

And does anyone know what fingerboard wood was used on the old fender guitars?

Also, USA custom says that I may need to "sand out" the tuning holes in order to fit the 11/32's Kluson deluxe tuners.. Anyone know what this means, or requires? Will I be able to buy the Kluson tuners and just put them in, or will I defintaly need to work on them myself?

[cynical1]

Installing a nut is not difficult, just involved and it does require some rather specialized tools to do it right. The nut shelf will probably be clean and to depth, but if not a nut shelf file makes the job quick and easy. Cutting your slots can be done with proper nut files, the modified feeler gauges or torch cleaning tips.

The best results do come from the proper files, but it's an easy $100.00 for a set to cut one nut.

For a one off you may want to just defer to your tech and let it go at that. No harm or sin in that...guitar techs need to eat, too...

I've been using the Tusq nuts for some time now and love 'em. They are consistently sized and accurate, which makes installing them much easier then bone. Bone can also be inconsistent in hardness. It is, after all, an organic material subject to any number of variations in it's makeup.

On trem-leo applications Tusq makes an oil impregnated nut that reduces friction across the string grooves.

Unless you have a thing for 70's\80's music you probably don't want the brass nut. It was just an ugly phase some of us went through...we're over it now.

Odds are the 50's Fenders used Rosewood from a country you can no longer import from. USA Custom Guitars can tell you what grades and colors of rosewood they have. Indian rosewood will look the closest to an older rosewood fretboard, and it's still available and inexpensive.

More then likely when they say you'll have to "sand" the tuner holes they mean just that...the finish may close the hole off a bit so a dowel rod and some sand paper may be needed to open it up for the ferrules. Not a big deal.

And the tuners, provided they're 11/32" tuners, and the headstock was drilled for those tuners, should drop right in. You will need to drill your small screw holes on the back of the neck to hold the orientation on the tuners.

I assume you're looking at a set like these:



I usually put blue 3M tape across the back of the neck, install the tuners, but only hand tighten the ferrules and use a jig, or a straight edge to align the tuners to make my drill holes. These are normally 1/16" holes drilled just short of the screw length. Some tape on the drill bit to mark your depth will prevent you from drilling all the way through the headstock...always embarrassing...

A drill press works the best for this. Hand drilling is not impossible, but you'll need to be accurate on your X-Y & Z axis' or your screws will go in crooked.

Odds are, if you've never setup the frets or cut a nut on a neck you'll want to leave this to your tech. Not to say you aren't capable of doing it yourself, but for the expense in the tools necessary to do this, and the time cost of redoing an errant slot cut makes using a tech a much smarter and quicker alternative.

For reference, I used to allow a minimum for 4 hours to install and setup a new neck. I'm a little rusty and find the job has protracted a bit with age. If you've never done one just reading what you need to know will take hours, buying the tools will cost about 50%-75% of your neck, and will take you a few days to get right.

Your call.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

Dig it, it makes sense.

But lets say I were to drill the holes slightly sideways... Big deal, no?
I mean, I'm sure I won't, but if its ever so slight, it surly won't jeprodize where the tuners go will it? I mean the tuners can only go in one way right? And yes those are the exact tuners!! So your saying that they should just drop in then? That I may have to run a bit of sand paper around them because of the gloss finish? If thats the case, I'm in. And thanks for the info on the brass nuts!! I was thinking bone, but I may just get one of those tusq nuts. Would I simply just need to glue it almost flush to the board at that point?

[cynical1]

It's not the end of the world if the holes go askew, but it will effect how well they lay flat against the tuner housing. More esthetics then anything...but if you're gonna drop the coin on the neck I'm sure you'd like it to come out as nice as possible.

A cheap way out is a Dremel tool and this attachment:



By loosening the thumbscrew you can move the tool up and down set the depth and get a good straight hole.

Installing a nut is not complicated, but you want your depth to allow for a minimum of cutting or filing the top profile of the nut. There is a wealth of information on the Internet through a quick Google search, so I won't re-invert the wheel here. Some time reading tutorials and watching videos is in order if you've never done this before. Either to learn how, or scare yourself away from the job and have your tech do it.

I would say you're probably going to have a good nut shelf from USA Guitars. Ask them the dimensions of the slot they're going to cut, if it will be flat or radiused, and purchase your nut accordingly.

You can glue the nut in with a multitude of different glues. Some people swear by Crazy Glue... I don't...others use Gorilla glue, epoxies...I just use regular wood glue. You really don't want a bond for the ages just in case you ever have to replace it...

One thing about gluing rosewood in general is that it tends to be an oily wood so glues can have an issue adhering to it. What I do is a very light sand with a 360 or 400 grit sandpaper to expose fresh wood, wipe some acetone on it, let the acetone evaporate and glue the nut.

If your neck is lacquered be very, repeat, VERY careful with the acetone. A damp corner of a thin cloth is all you need. You're just removing the surface oils so the glue can stick. You go too crazy with the acetone and your lacquer will experience a genuine ugly moment...

I know I've put details on cutting a nut and such on here before, but I can't remember where...CRS is a terrible thing...

We're all pulling for you.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

Thanks so much cynical! It does not sound to difficult, and I believe I could glue a nut and drill out for tuners. Im sure I could accomplish that!

But what is the difference between the two nuts? Radius/Flat that is..
My radius will be 7.25, if that helps.

[cynical1]

What I meant was that the routing for the nut shelf\slot can either have a radius to it, or it can be routed flat. Varies from builder to builder and year to year. I assume it'll have a Strat type nut slot routed, but you may want to confirm that.

On a standard Strat style nut there is a tab on the bottom of the nut. You just file it off if the shelf is radiused, or leave it in place if the shelf is routed flat.

They look like this:



You can see the small tab on the bottom if you look.

I would verify the depth and width of the slot and drop GraphTech an e-mail to confirm this type of pre-grooved nut will work on your 7.25" radius...don't see all that many of them anymore... You may wind up with a blank nut and have to file the top radius in prior to slotting it.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

Witch one, in your opinion cynical, is easier/nicer to work around?

USA custom guitars offer a series of different nut cutouts. I inquired about the different kinds, and they will go over it with me before the production happens..

[cynical1]

If the slot is the correct width and depth for the nut you have it makes little difference.

One thing I thought of earlier but forgot to ask, have you ever played a 7.25" radius neck before? I ask because depending on your playing style, preferred action, string bending proclivity...etc...you may find the 7.25" radius not to your liking.

If you've never payed one, I would suggest hitting the local music store and trying one. I mention this as the action tends to be higher by necessity, string bending can be more difficult due to this.

If you have, then never mind...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[phatmarx78]

Never mind, never mind!!! ;D Lets talk guitar!!!!
I have a 57' duo sonic and a 96' Jagstang, both with a 7.25 radius.
I know I'm "young", but I have an old soul, thats the saying yeah? I love the vintage specs, but not necessarily the fatbacks or boat necks... I do like the soft and medium v's... I can't stand the newer c shapes really, although I do tolerate it with my jagstang, although that would be is only flaw.. (I have a texas special in the neck and an atomic Fender humbucker in the bridge, this guitar is so hot for a Fender, its unbelievable!) I also have a few d shaped fenders, and a few "one off" special Univox contoured necks... I really don't know how to describe them, if you have ever played one, you would instantly know the contour I'm talking about! Its like a c but it is "flat" on the back for your thumb, almost as if instead of gripping with your entire hand, you use your thumb as the guide instead, sort of like the old jazz musicians.

[cynical1]

Depending on how precise USA Custom Guitars is willing to match a neck contour, you can document the thickness and prfile of the neck fret by fret. I know it sounds a bit extreme, but I've had people do it before.

A flexible woodworking rule:



...or a contour gauge:



...will both allow you to document the profile fret by fret. and a simple pair of calipers will allow you to capture the thickness at those reference points.

All depends on what you want and how much you're willing to pay for it.

Happy Trails

Cynical One