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Post by ashcatlt on Nov 15, 2012 23:06:07 GMT -5
I am infinitely amused by the fact that the things that we guitarists find interesting about our amplifiers is the way that they and their speakers fail at their jobs. I think just about everybody agrees that electric guitar reproduced through a truly flat and clean system sounds like complete poo. Even laymen expect to here some amount of non-linearity (compression/distortion) and limited frequency response. How that happened is up for debate. Anyway, here is a pretty in depth description of how and why guitar speakers fail in that special way. I learnedly some stuff. Maybe you will too. |
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Post by sumgai on Nov 16, 2012 12:47:00 GMT -5
As usual, SOS presented some fairly unbiased, and interesting, material. But I would've liked to see/hear/read about other speaker makers and their stories, and possibly tours of their factories, too. Celestion, like all companies, has their agenda, and sometimes alternative opinions about the craft of making speakers (or just about anything, really) would be really insightful, not just interesting or amusing. But space for editorial material always comes in second, right behind space for advertising. Sigh. And ash, I second your notion of how we all get carried away with worring about Factor X or some other silly little trivial thing, when 99% of us actually know less than nothing about the topic. But then again, that same 99% are the ones that advertisers are looking for!  (Fair Disclosure: I've yet to hear a Celestion speaker that sounds like a guitar speaker instead of a wet cat at the bottom of a well. Maybe I'll live long enough to do so, but I'm not placing any bets on it.) sumgai |
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Post by long813 on Nov 19, 2012 13:42:48 GMT -5
As usual, SOS presented some fairly unbiased, and interesting, material. But I would've liked to see/hear/read about other speaker makers and their stories, and possibly tours of their factories, too. Celestion, like all companies, has their agenda, and sometimes alternative opinions about the craft of making speakers (or just about anything, really) would be really insightful, not just interesting or amusing. But space for editorial material always comes in seoncd, right behind space for advertising. Sigh. And ash, I second your notion of how we all get carried away with worring about Factor X or some other silly little trivial thing, when 99% of us actually know less than nothing about the topic. But then again, that same 99% are the ones that advertisers are looking for! (Fair Disclosure: I've yet to hear a Celestion speaker that sounds like a guitar speaker instead of a wet cat at the bottom of a well. Maybe I'll live long enough to do so, but I'm not placing any bets on it.) sumgai I actually no next to nothing about speaker swaps for guitar amps. I keep reading "Celestion Celestion Celestion Eminence". I may be thinking about a speaker swap my self, so it would be good to know. What brands are there to look for, after the snake-oil-smog clears? |
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Post by sumgai on Nov 19, 2012 15:41:23 GMT -5
long,
newey has a small Fender amp he swapped the speaker out of, not too far back in time - ask him what he went through before finally enacting the swap.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by newey on Nov 19, 2012 19:14:35 GMT -5
Back in 1952, Ike Turner's guitarist puts a pencil through his speaker and for the last 60 years, we've all been searching for "that tone".  (OK, I know the story's probably apocryphal, but still . . .) As for my speaker swap, if I'd only asked here before I leapt into the void, it might have gone a whole lot smoother. Hindsight is 20-20 and all that. The swap was a Jensen "Mod10-30" (10", 30 watt rating) into my Fender Frontman 25R (SS, 25 watts). The Mod Series are Jensen's budget line, but it was a cheap amp (they can be had for $99 USD these days, mine was more when they first came out). I couldn't see the point of a $150 speaker into a $100 amp. The result was very positive, however- the Jensen was a vast improvement over the stock Fender speaker- bigger magnet and it breaks up much less "brittle-y". Much more recently, I bought a 1 X 15" unfinished cab and installed an Eminence 15" which I love- so much so that another identical one is planned so I can make a 2 X 15" stack. I'm a big fan of Eminence, while Celestions mostly leave me cold. I have heard some of the Greenbacks in an AC 30 that were great, but other than those, I'm unimpressed. But, to each his (or her) own. I like a clean tone, which the 15" gives you, with a full deep bass. That's just me, however- I'm pretty old-school and I recognize that it's not a very "modern" set-up, most players nowadays want an array of 12s or 10s. |
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Post by long813 on Nov 21, 2012 23:15:27 GMT -5
It is funny how musicians gear is the opposite of the listeners.
We want dirty gritty distortion, listeners want a THD < 0.001%. We want the guitar, pedals and amp to colour our tone. Listeners want their amps to not colour it at all and only let the speakers or headphones colour!
I personal love a flat response on my headphones and although my acoustic is noted as having a balanced response, it's not flat - b/c that would be boring. Amp ... ugh, I could not imagine playing guitar through a perfectly built 0 distortion crystal clear amp ... I imagine it would be ice picks to the ears.
& Thanks newey for some insight on your old mods. I have a peavey valveking that I tried selling, but since that failed, I may as well make the best of it. I read that the speaker it self is the biggest problem with the amp and so it seems logical to read about and find something than can add some note separation.
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Post by sumgai on Nov 22, 2012 3:21:33 GMT -5
long, Your Peavey Valveking is certainly worth keeping, unless you've over-GASsed on amps! ;D And you're correct, changing the speaker is well worth considering..... cheaper than buying a new amp, that's for sure.  While I've no beef with Eminence, I must admit to some partiality towards Jensens, Oxfords and Utahs, particularly those that've been re-branded by Fender. However, there are lots of other boutique and semi-boutique makers out there. Weber is always a good starting point, and for a great number of players, they're perfect. MojoTone is another player in the field worth a look. Used or re-built JBL's are the cat's meow, look for them on eBay or your local craigslist. They cost more than almost anything else, in no small part due to their well-earned reputation, but it's almighty hard to find someone* that thinks they suck. Still, if you should happen to run across one or more Fender Gauss speakers, snap 'em up!! They're the only speaker ever made that can send JBL home crying to Mommy, trust me! But they're oh-so-rare.....  HTH sumgai * Of course I'm speaking about someone who's rational. I've come across players who think JBL's suck, but after a few moments of listening to them, I suddenly remember that old saying: "Their minds are already made up, so don't bother confusing them with the facts." What a maroon! |
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Post by long813 on Nov 22, 2012 22:15:53 GMT -5
long, Your Peavey Valveking is certainly worth keeping, unless you've over-GASsed on amps! ;D And you're correct, changing the speaker is well worth considering..... cheaper than buying a new amp, that's for sure. It was a mixture of 50W is too loud and Roland cubes has a headphone out. A headphone out jack seems like it would be a neat/fun feature to use, but the more I think about it the less I see it being an improvement. 50W definitely is too loud, but I have somewhat concluded that it doesn't really matter how low I go down on tube amps, it will still be loud. Still, having the volume on less than 1 just seams like a waste  Thanks for the list! I'll look into them. I came across warehouse speakers which seem to get good reviews from making clones at a cheaper price. I should look into all their models, it may be the best starting point (er price point) Ah such is life. I have come to conclude that most people, weather it be fitness, religion v. science, snake-oil in any industry (guitars?!) will come ask a question, not to receive an answer, but to receive reassurance that what they know is correct. Their minds are already made up before the question was asked. Marketing is a evil little man! |
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Post by newey on Nov 22, 2012 23:30:20 GMT -5
And it would be a neat modification to add onto your ValveKing. Probably an afternoon's worth of work. Hardly a reason to ditch an amp that you like otherwise! |
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Post by long813 on Nov 22, 2012 23:35:44 GMT -5
And it would be a neat modification to add onto your ValveKing. Probably an afternoon's worth of work. Hardly a reason to ditch an amp that you like otherwise! True true! I have looked into it, briefly - but haven't given it much thought. Off to find te VK schematics! |
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Post by 1150lefty on Dec 3, 2012 10:20:58 GMT -5
I love articles like this! No matter how many times I hear the same facts and opinions, it's always humbling to feel the astonishment of the random science behind sound. Did that make any sense? No? Good.
I only used Celestions in my 2x15 cabinet because I couldn't pass up the good deal on the buyout. 2 drivers for much less than half the price of the 1 Eminence I was gonna buy and wait until I saved up to buy another. Don't get me wrong - the "wet cat at the bottom of a well" is close to what I compare Celestions to also, and all the Eminence speakers I've heard side-by-side with Celestions I like better. Maybe the Greenbacks (black) or the V30's will stand alone, but to my ears, and wallet, the Eminence hit the tone more precise. Heck, I have a special edition 12G75MT (I think that's the model ?) that my simple 15w alnicos sounded better than. Now JBL's...I can't touch even one that needs a recone, but they are probably the best I've heard in all aspects and environments.
I guess the point to my blubbering is to say trust your ears.
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