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Post by 1150lefty on Dec 10, 2012 10:24:51 GMT -5
I couldn't pass up this deal and the Mrs. needed something to get me for Christmas. Fender G-DEC 3 30 watt for $99 on Black Friday. It also cost a new door handle for my car, as somebody wanted my junk more than me and tried breaking into my EMPTY commuter car.
There must be a huge learning curve with this thing. Every time I plug in I find something new, and I'm able to get really decent sounds out of it. Time that I don't have really gets away from me, but I'm sure that will change once I figure out what I want the setup to do for me.
Anybody have suggestions or tips for this amp? I have already found some new jam tracks for it. I want more amp models and tweeking capability, though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 10:45:34 GMT -5
Man, that looks so good : www.fender.com/en-GR/products/gdec3I think in the future, we will see less and less traditional amps. I mean what can beat jamming with your favorite band, by using just one box  I'd like one of those my self, either the roland (boss) or the fender or something equal. The problem is what to do with my aging transistor-driven Crate amp from the 80s... I love this as well but our space is limited to fit 2 guitar amps when my son does not have a room  |
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Post by sumgai on Dec 10, 2012 12:54:12 GMT -5
What - no MIDI? And no Surf backing tracks, either - Fender, I'm ashamed for you!  Well, that was a short-lived dream.  Still, it beats hauling an FTR or FSR up the stairs to a gig.... by about a hundred pounds or so. (At least that's what g-f-b's back would be telling him, if he ever listened to it.) Oh, and don't let newey find out about this, if he grabs one he'll never leave that bomb shelter basement of his!  sumgai |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 15:01:19 GMT -5
What - no MIDI? And no Surf backing tracks, either - Fender, I'm ashamed for you! things change, i have a nephew (guitarist, he is 19) who thinks that Slayer is a classic band for older people and that Exodus used to sound "thin" |
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Post by long813 on Dec 10, 2012 17:00:54 GMT -5
What - no MIDI? And no Surf backing tracks, either - Fender, I'm ashamed for you! things change, i have a nephew (guitarist, he is 19) who thinks that Slayer is a classic band for older people and that Exodus used to sound "thin" ... next you're going to say Anthrax isn't classic rock either. |
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Post by 1150lefty on Dec 10, 2012 17:40:25 GMT -5
What - no MIDI? And no Surf backing tracks, either - Fender, I'm ashamed for you! sumgai I saw something about MIDI...download or upload into the library, with mp3. The first hour or 3 I played with it I got frustrated that there was so much to play with, but I couldn't find anything I wanted. Now I'm learning how to make things mine. I don't know how they get 30 watts out of this, even SS. Unless the speaker (and it has a tweeter) is really inefficient. I've been thinking about rewiring my 2x15 to 16 ohms or just play 1x15 @ 8 ohms. The little footprint was nice when I had it next to my bed. |
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Post by newey on Dec 10, 2012 17:41:30 GMT -5
I found out about these a while back, and was darn near headed to the checkout line with one when I had second thoughts. This was one of the first generation ones, they're now onto "gen II". They had an "executive version" for a while which had a sunburst finish instead of the black Tolex and I thought that was pretty sharp looking, so I wanted one. And it did sound good for a small practice amp.
In the end, though, I didn't buy it as I didn't really need another small SS practice amp and thought I'd hold my $$$ for something tube-ish. Of course, it never happened, and I've bought several other amps in the meantime.
But my real objection to the idea of the thing was based on the unrepairable nature, in the modern world, of such things. IOW, if it's a hundred bucks or so, it's basically a disposable item. Unless you can fix any faults yourself, you can't find someone willing to so much as open it up for what a new one would cost, much less actually repair it for a reasonable cost. Here, you've got the amp and digital effects "all in one wrapper", so to speak, so if the effects go bad the amp becomes useless, and vice versa.
My thought was that, if I really wanted digital effects, a separate unit would be a better way to go. If it breaks, it doesn't affect your amp. If the amp breaks, it doesn't affect your effects.
But all-in-all it's a neat unit, definitely something different from Fender.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 10, 2012 20:38:00 GMT -5
lefty, MIDI over USB might be possible, but it's usually limited to speaking with a computer loaded with appropriate software. Everything else a musician might already have that uses the MIDI standard 5-pin DIN connectors, that's all left out in the cold. Bad Fender, bad, bad.  Even the Cyber Twin and Cyber Deluxe had MIDI capabilities, so it's not like Fender doesn't know anything about it.... Bad Fender - no customer for you! sumgai |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2012 6:45:45 GMT -5
Guyz, being in the software industry, i think that is the new trend. Basically devices will just be appliances which run some software on them. Their prime value is in their software and ease of use not in the hardware. Hardware is disposable. There is a shift of where the value lies. In the traditional paradigm the value was on the "iron" : the hardware and its properties/characteristics. Now all hardware are just processors, running some digital processing and converting output to analog via some AD-DA converter, which is the only real hardware parts, all the rest is done by software. In the end you could program or customize each unit to emulate anything, even the legendary 60hz hum. Thing with going digital is not so much about quality or sound or tone but a major shift in mindset.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 11, 2012 13:48:07 GMT -5
pyrros, I can't argue with your position, I think you've got the right idea about paradigms and such. However, I can say with assurance that when a company ignores the past (doing things the old way), then they're in for a heap of scorn. No better example exists in the music industry than Gibson's derivative Les Pauls - the RoboGuitar, the proprietary CompuGuitar, among others. Ridicule is too light a word for how the guitar-buying public responded. My beef is not with the mindset of a company's viewpoint of "we've got to move forward and innovate". No, my issue is with the unspoken bit that comes after the word innovate - the part that says "... regardless of what the customer already owns (and presumably loves)". That's the part that bugs me the most. Consider: When IBM first brought out the PC in 1981, they used a 5-pin DIN connector for the keyboard (and the cassette tape device!!!). Later in the PC's life, as manufacturers were miniaturizing everything, new connectors for the keyboard and mouse were introduced.... and adapters were also brought to market so that people could use whatever keyboard or mouse they wanted, regardless of the connector on the end of the cord. Such thinking is called both innovative and customer-friendly. Moral of that story: You don't leave your customer base high and dry, not if you want to retain their loyalty. If you make them spend money for a new keyboard when they've already got a perfectly good one that they love, you're gonna  'em off something fierce. With that thinking in mind, let's consider Fender's new amp. MIDI has been around since 1984, and what no one considers very much is that it's actually two sets of standards - one for what to communicate, and the other for how to communicate that data. Much like software and hardware - definite lines between them, but lots of overlap at the same time. For the past several years USB has carried MIDI data, obviating the need for the 5-pin connector. (Software doesn't care about hardware - it doesn't have to.) However, those companies going down this road seem to forget that there are literally millions of devices out there that still function in a satisfactory manner for their owners, none of them USB-capable. I ask you, how are those owners supposed to use USB, without any kind of adapter? It's hardware, both interfaces are dead-simple to implement, so why won't the companies selling MIDI stuff make such devices? That's the $64 question. And I'm not the only one asking it, just take a glance at almost any Yahoo or Google Group centered on the topic of Roland's 13-pin interface, and you'll soon see my point. And for the record, pretty much any computer with a USB port can be set up for doing a 5-pin connection, only an adapter is needed. But those adapters are brain-dead - they depend on programming from the computer to do their jobs, so they're worthless to a non-computer-using MIDI device owner. Further, not many gigging musicians want to haul a laptop to a gig, for the purpose of acting as a vastly over-priced adapter, only to find some drunk toppling over the stage and knocking said laptop to the floor - the drunk always disappears before it's time to extract payment for repairs/replacement. (Funny how that works.....) Hmmm, maybe it's time to pay a visit to the various Arduino websites, and see if there might not be some cash waiting to be plucked from old-school MIDI device owners...... </rant> sumgai |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 1:20:34 GMT -5
Sumgai, there could be an active adapter out there who does that job. But, it would be much more expensive than those dummy interfaces that are sold. there has to be a digital circuit to do that (dedicated or a generic processor), and of course it must be powered as well. www.circuitsathome.com/mcu/interfacing-midi-devices-with-arduino-using-usb-host-shieldNow what you say, is 100% legit. Those Roland guitars were worth 1000 USD +. It sucks not being able to use them. Also, Fender being a Roland "pal", (all roland products have fenders in their commercials), could do better in that aspect. If demand from the public was huge, maybe they could dedicate some work to it. But also one has to take into consideration the rest of modern USB MIDI vendors. Do they support anything of a kind? Or is it a generic trend to completely drop support for all legacy MIDI equipment ? Personally i was never lucky to get involved in MIDI. I started with Unix, then Linux then FreeBSD, and at certain times none of this supported MIDI. (ok i know Linux nowdays does support it). But i guess it is something with endless possibilities. |
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Post by sumgai on Dec 12, 2012 2:51:32 GMT -5
pyrros, MIDI came on the scene in 1984, not long after the IBM PC was brought out. Its sole goal was to let synthesizers talk to each other, so that one device could control another, thus allowing a performer to activate several tones/pitches at the same time. (In those days, a polyphonic synth could easily cost more than a car!) At that point in history, the synthesizer/MIDI people weren't thinking of computers, either personal or bigger stuff (like mini- and mainframes). Likewise, the computer people weren't thinking of musical instruments at all. In fact, they weren't thinking too much about the world outside of the box itself - for them a monitor, a keyboard, and a printer were sufficient. Who could've foretold that the two fields would meet in less than two decades. That's why *nix, FreeBSD and other high-powered OS's of the time didn't "speak MIDI" - there wasn't any reason to, at the time. Flash forward 20 or 25 years, and look at the ubiquity of PCs, particularly laptops. And in the last 3 or 4 years, smartphones that are more powerful than any single-core Pentium or Thunderbird ever made. Now, anybody with a hankering for making music, and has a computer of some sort, can devise, produce and publish almost anything that they proclaim to be music - no traditional instruments necessary! But of course there are beaucoup traditional intrument players out there, and they want to access this power for their own needs/desires. Enter that old topology that every synth player loves to hate: MIDI. Child's play for any computer, once the hardware has been adapted. (Check the web for Atari Amiga sites, you'll find plenty of MIDI programs that ran on the 400 and 800.) And there things stood until recently. Guitar and amp companies started adding MIDI to their equipment, such as Fender's two Cyber amps. With a footswitch (any MIDI-capable footswitch), one could set the amp at the back of the stage, just like any other amp, and control it from the floor in front of him. Pretty heady stuff. But more recently, USB connectors have made inroads into these companies. Why? Well, I'm not 100% positive, but I suspect it boils down to speed of data transfer: 31.5 KHz versus 1.2 Mhz (at the miniumum). Now, if you were gonna put some MIDI-controlled parameters in your amp, and you wanted to let a computer access these same parameters (storage/backup, modify and experiment, etc.), would you use a MIDI connector to transfer the data to the computer, or would you opt for speed and go with USB? Right. Notwithstanding that nearly any synthesizer or sequencer can do the same thing, store and modify MIDI data from another device, but those devices are not cheap, so they're not plentiful. Enter the PC (or equally powerful device), and suddenly, everyone's got one of those.... That ubiquity makes the choice even easier, doesn't it though. And there we have it in a nutshell, or probably close enough - it's a matter of economics. The fact that multitudes of old-style MIDI equipment owners have been left out in the cold doesn't seem to matter to the current crop of MIDI-involved companies. I can just imagine the conversation in the Board Room: "Well, that's just too bad for them. And hey, if they really are keen to stay on top of things, they'll pony up just like the rest of the buying public. They can recycle that old "junk" to someone else further down the food chain." Bah! My blood pressure has gone up 15 points just by writing this post.... BAH! sumgai |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 3:17:44 GMT -5
Thanx pretty informative overview in a nutshell.
Have you checked out the non-commercial alternatives ? Buying or building a custom board to do exactly that : interface 5-pin MIDI devices to USB MIDI? Is this possible ?
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Post by long813 on Dec 12, 2012 11:11:21 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Dec 12, 2012 11:53:28 GMT -5
pyrros, You're welcome. ;D No, I haven't looked recently, probably not for a year or more. (Even though I don't play, I'm still active in how it's done, so that I can converse with others and perhaps be of aid and assistance to those just entering the world of MIDI.) Perhaps I'm being a bit overly sensitive, and should maybe do some current research.... thanks for coming to my rescue. (My blood pressure is coming back down now, I can feel it working.  )
long, No, those two devices are exactly what I'm railing against - they're dain bramaged. Note that they both are labeled as "PC to MIDI" converters - without that PC in the circuit, there's no conversion going on, none a'tall. As it happens, lots of stuff can be done on a computer that's beneficial to one (or more) MIDI-capable devices. I personally own 7 different MIDI-enabled items, and all but one of them has a PC-based Editor. Now that I use a laptop exclusively (out on the patio in the summer, in front of the fireplace during the winter, you get the idea. ), I have the Uno by M-audio, and it works a treat - really. Why? Mainly because my looper, a Boss RC-50, communicated with the computer only over USB. It has MIDI ports, both In and Out, but the editing software doesn't know how to use the PC's MIDI ports - it just assumes that they don't exist, period, and heads straight for the nearest USB port. Now that's short-sighted, to be sure, but once again, there's that old bugaboo about data transfer rates. As an example, the RC-50 can up/download a complete backup of all my saved samples in about 20 or 21 seconds, over USB. That data set is nearly 245MB in size (I had to go look at that figure in Exploder, it's been so long....). Contrast that to my GR-33, which doesn't contain editable samples, only editable operating parameters. That data set is only 17.5KB, yet over standard MIDI, it takes nearly the same amount of time, just under 20 seconds, to transfer in either direction. One can see how manufacturers would wish to avoid any chance of customer frustration. Yet, what's the big deal with spending one or two more dollars to install both kinds of ports, USB and MIDI? Some of you will recall that I used to play with a lady guitar player who was no great shakes as a player, but a helluva musician nonetheless. (For the newbies - she passed away nearly 3 years ago.) She had a piano (which she played very well) made by Yamaha, one of the original MIDI starters. Do you think there'd be a MIDI port or two on the back of that piano? No, don't bother to look, there ain't. It was over $700 retail, and yet the only port available was USB - this on a full-size 88 key unit. 700 bananas and more panel space than an aircraft carrier, and they still couldn't find the wherewithal to insert a pair of 5-pin DIN connectors? Are you kidding me, Yamaha? That's the kind of thing that makes me shake my head in wonder at what goes on in a business man's head. It sure as hell ain't concerning itself with what working musicians want/need.  HTH Oh, and my blood pressure is still down, in case you wanted to know.  sumgai |
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Post by 1150lefty on Dec 12, 2012 16:42:09 GMT -5
Well, good info and I value all opinions. While it's $99 I could be closer to buying a REAL tube amp, I can probably get more money for it if I sell it. It's discontinued, and some have hopes for a better replacement. It kind of p's me off that I have to plug the laptop into the amp to get close to the settings I want, but I found (I think) a way to get around that and save everything on the SD card if the memory locks out the changes after a certain time or cycle...or whatever. Still no substitute for the real thing, but close and is fun wasting time trying to "fix" everything.
My dad is a retired IBM'er, as a matter of fact. Did just about everything for them, including "break testing." Maybe I should pick his noggin about what coulda-shoulda-woulda been done with this thing. ;D I seem to remember way back when he was cussing about some sort of MIDI interface that would have been simpler if...I can't remember; I wasn't even computer-savvy yet. I'll have to brush up on my licks and chops before I show him - he has a shorter attention span than I!
Nowadays, when all you need is a laptop, mixer, and speakers to run a show...(dubstep - blah!)
Jimmy Page still uses his "CompuGuitar" Les Paul, but it seems like he uses it for a noodle effect rather than its intended purpose - quick-change tunings. Kind of like the bow only makes noises, and not really contributes to the music.
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