Custom Fender Stratocaster HSH wiring help.

[Adam]

Hey guys, I have just received my order of Seymour Duncan pickups (SH-4, SH-2, SSL-52) and I have asked this question in their forums with no replies yet, so I'm going to try my luck out here, but I was wondering if you guys could fix me up with a wiring diagram. Since this is going to be a HSH strat, I would like to wire my pickups in this configuration:
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... but with the addition of two push/pull pots for coil splitting. I would like the volume push/pull pot to split the coils of both bridge and neck humbuckers, activating the inner (slug) coils of each pickup when pulled up, while the tone push/pull splits both humbuckers, activating only the outer (adjustable) coils in their respective pickup switching positions. E.G Volume pot pulled up with tone pushed down with pickup selector in bridge position, only slug coil of the bridge pickup is heard. Tone pot pulled up with volume pushed down, only the adjustable coil is heard. Positions 2 and 4 are auto coil splits with the innercoils of either the bridge or neck humbucker combined with the middle pickup etc. I hope you get what I'm trying to say:


I am now aware that a superswitch is needed, so I have ordered one. If you could fix me up with a wiring diagram for this, I'd very much appreciate it. On some other forums, I have been told what I'm asking for may be a bit too complicated, but I'd greatly appreciate it if you guys could give it a crack. Thanks.





(EDITed by sumgai to make the images appear, instead of linkage.)

[sumgai]

adam,

Welcome to the The NutzHouse!

(I modified your post above to have the images show up directly - no sense in wandering around the web when all the necessary information can be viewed on this one single page. )

I want to ask you what happens if both Vol and Tone p-p switches are pulled up at the same time? Also, what happens if the Tone p-p is pulled up when the pickup selector is in Positions 2 or 4?

If you're intending this mod for home/recording use, then any "dead spots" (silence) can be ignored. But on stage, a suddenly silent guitar can be very disconcerting. (Pun intended!)

Additionally, the discernable tonal differences between the inner and outer coils are extremely minimal, at best. The only viable reason for selecting one coil over the other is to mate up with another coil with the least amount of hum. Tell us, did you perchance hear someone's guitar that had these options, and you "simply must have that same setup", or are you just trying to cover all the bases at once?

HTH





sumgai

[JohnH]

welcome to GN2. sumgai raises some good questions. Particularly, in positions 2 and 4, would the push pulls do anything?, or would they made to be overidden by the 5-way so thay are not active?.

With all that switching, there is more you can get out of your system, even without going into any unusual or complex settings. Eg, you might like to have B+N options, or humbucker bridge plus middle.

eg You could have the standard 5 way settings, with no auto split. Then pull one switch to cut B and N to single coils, selected for humcancelling with M if in position 2 or 4. Pull the other to force the neck on, so you can have B and N together or all three. this switch could also swap which coil is cut on one pickup so you can have humcancelling single coil B+N. And no dead spots or settings that hum more than needed.

Just mixing the pot....

Could you link to the other forum thread on SD so we can see what others think?

[Adam]

I have actually gotten another idea. This Seymour Duncan diagram , gives me the option of using the volume knob as the coil splitting, while the tone knob is the coil selector. I was wondering if it were possible to incorporate this with the superswitch with autotap? Also another question: I had completely forgotten I had the Lr Baggs CTRL-X preamp installed in my guitar. I was wondering how I could install it with the superswitch as the supplied wiring diagram only shows where to solder the wire to a standard 5 way switch as shown by wire no.12.

[newey]

If you want the SD arrangement for the push/pulls, that can certainly be done with the Superswitch wiring you want. Not sure about the LR Baggs preamp, it probably won't be an issue but I can't say for sure until we get a specific diagram.

[Adam]

Okay guys, I have my Lr Baggs problem solved. Now, I just need a final wiring diagram that combines this with this . But for the coil select, I was wondering if I could reverse it so the down position is the inner coils and the up position is the outer coils? I apologise for asking for too much, but I am kinda of desperate to get this project done. Thanks guys.

[newey]

I'll be happy to do a diagram for you, but it may well be the weekend before I can get to it.

[Adam]

Awesome! I can't thank you enough.

[newey]

Adam-

I think I've managed to implement what you want. No Superswitch needed, a regular 5-way switch will suffice. While a SS isn't necessary, it certainly could be used as well to do this; you'd only be using half of the switch, though.

Caveat: As with all of my diagrams, let's get another set of eyes to double-check this before you start wiring. But I'm pretty sure of this one working as intended.

Let me explain what I did, using the SD diagram as a base. There are 4 changes to the SD diagram, which I've shown as 4 added blue and/or purple wires.

First, look at the original SD diagram. Notice the P/P pot for the coil split. See how the center terminals on each side have the "series junction" (red and white wires together) for each HB soldered there? Notice how the upper lugs on that P/P don't have anything connected to them?

We'll be using those unused lugs.

Next, look at the five-way switch. Notice how each pickup's hot wire connects to a lug on one side of the 5-way? See that there is a wire connecting the two halves of the switch together, and that the wire then connects to the volume pot?

The wire that connects the two halves of the 5-way switch together is superfluous, since there's nothing else connected to the second pole of the switch. We'll be removing that interconnecting wire so we can use the other pole for other things (namely the auto-split).

So, here's what you'll be doing, step-by-step. For clarity, I'll call the side of the 5-way to which the pickups connect the "left side" and the currently-unused side as the "right side" of the 5-way switch.

1) Disconnect the black wire that connects the left side common terminal of the 5-way switch to the right side, and also disconnect the wire from the right side of the switch to the volume control. Wire the volume pot directly to the left side common lug, as shown by the blue wire I added to the SD diagram.

2) Wire the unused lugs on the upper end of the coil-split P/P switch to lugs 1 and 3 on the right side of the 5-way switch, as I've shown by the 2 purple wires I added to the SD diagram.

3) Wire lug #2 on the right side of the 5-way to the back of the volume pot to ground it, as I've shown by the added grayish-blue wire.



Now, the way this will work is, when the P/P for the coil split is "in", you'll be on the 5-way switch alone, with your auto-split at positions 2 and 4 only. This will give you the slug (inner) coils at 2 and 4.

With the coil-split P/P pulled out, you'll have the coils split in all positions of the five-way, with the ability to swap over to the screw coils by pulling up on the other P/P switch.

As JohnH noted, this is somewhat redundant, as you now have two ways to split the coils; the autosplit on the 5-way doesn't add any new sounds, and in fact you lose the ability to have HB + SC at positions 2 and 4. But it's what you said you wanted, and we aim to please!

Also, note that your five-way switch may not look exactly like the one in the diagram. If it doesn't, you will need to correlate the switch lugs on yours to the diagram, so that you can identify which lugs are the "common" lugs.

Also note that the orientation of the 5-way, as shown in the SD diagram, is correct. The lever on a lever switch such as this connects the lugs opposite from where the lever is positioned, like a child's seesaw. So, the neck pickup connects to the "bridge-most" lugs and the bridge pup to the "neck-most" lugs, as the SD diagram shows. This ensures that, when the lever is pointed towards the neck, you'll get the neck pickup.

[Adam]

Thank you soo much for the diagram, Newey. I'm just wondering, should I be using a 500k push/pull pot for the tone with a 0.047u cap? I have tried it, but it does not seem to be doing anything. It's as if there was no tone control and all the pickups sound really bright. Could it possibly be the pot was a dud, or I have wired it up wrong? (I've wired it the way the diagram shows with the cap on the centre lug and the way it was wired on the stock Fender pots with the cap on the side lug, both with no success) Since my cavities and pickguard have been shielded with aluminium and copper tape, could it be shorting the pot out?

[JohnH]

The diagram looks very good to me, based on the requested spec.

I was wondering how you would combine auto split with coil selected split, and I think you have the most logical arrangement, whereby if you use the push pulls to split and select coils, it overrides the auto split. So you can get any hb coil combined with the middle in positions 2 and 4, offering a whole duck-pond full of quack options. It also avoids the problem of the auto split and the switches trying to shunt different coils, thus cutting all sound.

The tone control should work fine with 500k and 0.047, and the diagram is fine, so there must be a wiring problem. Is the back of the tone pot grounded?. ie, there should be a connection volume outer hot lug to pot, pot to cap, cap to ground. (order of pot and cap does not matter)

cheers
John

[Adam]

Thanks for all the help, guys. I've just had a sort of epiphany and realised that the coil switching may not be necessary at all as the tonal differences is somewhat negligible. I was wondering if I could ask to modify this wiring diagram so that I would have the auto tap, volume push/pull knob to coil split the inside coils of each humbucker, while the tone push/pull activates both humbuckers in positions 1 and 5 and bridge, mid and neck pickups in position 3. I feel that might be a better way to get different tones out of the guitars than coil switching. I'm so sorry for all this. It was just a sudden thought that crossed my mind.

This is what I'm on about:

Once again, I am so sorry!

[newey]

Adam-

Well, I hate to say we told you so- but we did! Way back in reply #1, sumgai said the tonal difference of one coil versus the other would be minimal.

There are only two reasons to be able to choose either coil: to maximize hum-cancelling where one has N + B split-coil options, or if the pickup(s) in question have dissimilar coils, like SD's P-Rails.

What you now want can be done. But rather than hand you a finished diagram to do so, I'm going to tell you generally how to do this, and ask that you re-draw it. We will then check your diagram before you start soldering so you know it's OK.

It's not that I'm unwilling to do another diagram, that's no biggie. The reason is that, way back when I started in on this Board, I had a mentor here, and right now I'm hearing his voice in my ear, saying "Teach a man to fish . . .". IOW, this can be a learning experience for you, now that you've got your feet wet on the first rewiring.

Before we get to the "How to", though, I would urge you to examine what you want more closely (if for no other reason than to avoid a potential third re-wiring!).

Consider what this new idea is getting you: You are gaining the ability to have NHB + BHB, but with a redundancy- you get that when the 5-way is set to either neck or bridge position. The NHB + BHB is, in my opinion, a valuable addition. It's the LP sound, if you will.

You also gain the "all 5 coils" option. This promises to be much less useful. Having that many coils going at once tends to get muddy-sounding. There are some metalheads who like that, but I'm sure the consensus of opinion from the members here would be a resounding "meh" . . .

Now consider what you don't get with this set-up. You don't have any HB in combination with the middle SC. Those can be very useful sounds.

Consider this: Rather than use the tone P/P pot to turn on both HBs, pick either the bridge or the neck HB, and use the switch to turn on that HB alone, rather than both HBs.

Let's assume for the purposes of discussion that you choose to turn on the neck HB.

You'll still have the "LP sound" option, but it won't have the redundant selection. If you choose the neck pickup as the one to turn on, then you'll have the "both HBs" setting only with the tone pot pulled and with the 5-way switch set to the "bridge" setting.

You won't get all 5 coils at once, but with the 5-way set to B + M, you'll have NHB + M(SC) + B(SC), so you'll have 4 coils at once. You'll also have the 3 SCs at that position by pulling up the Vol P/P, to split the neck.

And, here's the clincher: You gain a useful option at position 3 of the 5-way, as you now can have NHB + M(SC).

The N + M position won't change, as the auto-split will still only give you the one coil of the neck pup at that position.

If you picked the bridge pup instead, you'd have M(SC) + BHB instead. The other options would all stay the same, although the positions on the 5-way where you find them would switch around accordingly.

So, you should consider whether it's better to switch on both HBs or just one of them.

Now, to get to the "how to" portion. I will outline this for turning the neck HB "on" with the tone P/P pot. We will only be using one-half of the P/P to do so; if you decide you want to go with your original idea, the bridge pickup would get wired, in an identical fashion, to the other half of the P/P, to turn on both HBs at once.

First, all the existing wires to the tone P/P pot are to be removed, so that it is connected to nothing to begin. Remove the extra wires at the other end as well, from the other P/P and from the 5-way, so they aren't hanging uselessly in the cavity.

Next, the black wire from the neck HB (the "hot" wire), which currently is wired to the 5-way switch, needs to be disconnected from the 5-way and wired instead to the center lug on the P/P (pick either side of the P/P to use; all our new connections will be to the same side of the P/P).

Next, run a wire from the "bottom" lug of the P/P (the one furthest from the pot as shown on the diagram) to the volume pot "hot" lug (where the 5-way switch is currently connected).

Then, run a wire from the "top" lug of the P/P (closest to the pot) back to the 5-way switch, to the lug where the neck pup was originally connected.

Voila! you're done.

Note that, if you decide to do the bridge pup as well, there's no need to run two separate wires to the volume pot- just jumper the two lugs at the bottom of the P/P together.

So, draw that up and we'll have a look at your handiwork!

[Adam]

Thank you so much.
Is this what you're saying?

[newey]

That's it! You don't need the jumper between the lower 2 lugs of the tone P/P, since nothing is connected to the other side anyway. (Those lugs would be connected if you were doing the bridge pup as well.)

But, as I said, I think it's more versatile with just the "neck on".

Drawing it up yourself gives you a better understanding of how it all works together. As you see, we're simply using the P/P pot to select the hot wire of the neck, either going to the 5-way for the std. selections, or going directly to the hot output, thus turning it on regardless of the position of the 5-way.

You have done well, grasshopper! +1!

[Adam]

Thank you once again for all the help and patience. I've just realised something. For the two upper lugs of the volume push/pull pot (ones closest to the actual pot), shouldn't they be going to ground because I was comparing coil splitting diagrams and they all show those lugs going to ground.

[newey]

shouldn't they be going to ground because I was comparing coil splitting diagrams and they all show those lugs going to ground.

Yes, that's my fault, I forgot to tell you to ground those lugs after disconnecting the wires to the tone P/P (as they were originally wired).

You can run from both to the back of the V pot, just as with the other grounds.

[Adam]

Hey guys, I've run into a little problem after wiring my guitar up. I seem to think that 500k tone pots seem to have a negligible effect on tone as it sounds all the same. I've tried 3 different 500k push/pull pots with the 0.047uf cap and it makes no difference. I then tried using a regular 250k pot from the old electronics and it works. I get the wah wah effect when i turn it up and down unlike on all the other 500k pots. What gives?

[newey]

HMM. That's odd. The only possible explanations for that would be that you had 3 bad 500K pots in a row (highly unlikely) or that you had a bad connection on all three (garden-variety unlikely).

It is possible to fry the innards of pots by applying too much heat to the backs. Some pots' construction makes them more susceptible to that.

Did you perhaps try a different capacitor on the 250K pot?

Just a guess here, but another possibility if all 3 500K pots were from the same mfr., perhaps there was a coating or some oil on the backs of those pots that prevented a good connection. However, that problem is usually apparent because the solder won't stick to the back of the pot.

Understand that the pot value isn't the issue here, either a 500K or a 250K should work just fine as a tone control, if they are both wired correctly and both operating correctly.

The best way to minimize those types of troubles is to test all your components before using them.

[Adam]

All wiring problems have finally been resolved and I have put the guitar back together. I've modified that previous wiring diagram a little as I had found that the wires on the lugs of the push/pull switch were upside down on the previous diagram with up being the off position and down being the on position. Overall, the wiring was a mess as there were wires coming in and out of everywhere with about 5 different wires all going to the volume input lug. I had manage to modify the CTRL-X preamp by replacing the original stock pot with another push/pull pot, giving me three in total with the volume knob for coil splitting, CTRL-X knob for activating the neck humbucker and the tone knob for activating the bridge humbucker, giving me more combinations and options. I must say that all the heart/headache from all that wiring was worth it in the end as I am now happy with what I have been able to achieve since this was my first time doing any real major wiring on my guitar. I would like to thank you all, especially Newey for all the help and advice, despite me changing my mind so often.

Here is the final wiring diagram for those who are interested:


And here is the pickup configuration chart:


Once I find the time, I shall try to make some demo clips. One more thing: I was wondering if I may have accidentely wired the wrong coils/wires of the humbuckers to be used with the autotap. I followed the Seymour Duncan diagram and hooked up the red and white wires to the splitter while grounding the green and bare wires, but there still seems to be a bit of humming/buzzing in positions 2 and 4 and the output seems to have dropped a bit. It still sounds like a regular single coil strat in positions 2 and 4, just with a bit of buzz/humming. Would reversing the wires maybe help a bit?

[newey]

One more thing: I was wondering if I may have accidentely wired the wrong coils/wires of the humbuckers to be used with the autotap. I followed the Seymour Duncan diagram and hooked up the red and white wires to the splitter while grounding the green and bare wires, but there still seems to be a bit of humming/buzzing in positions 2 and 4 and the output seems to have dropped a bit. It still sounds like a regular single coil strat in positions 2 and 4, just with a bit of buzz/humming. Would reversing the wires maybe help a bit?

Since you have SD pickups, following the SD wiring colors should have given you the correct coils for hum-cancellation. Of course, you can check to see which coils you have operating, using the screwdriver test.

It's difficult to say without hearing it, but I suspect what you're hearing is normal operation. Lower output would be expected, as compared with either the full neck HB or bridge HB. This is because your auto-split at positions 2 and 4 is combining two single coils in parallel, whereas selecting a HB gives you 2 coils in series. The series combo will have a higher output.

As far as noise, the lower output can make what noise there is "sound out" more in the mix- you just notice it more with the lower output.

Positions 2 and 4 should still be less noisy than your middle SC alone (as on stock strats). It should also be less noisy than the neck SC + bridge SC you get with the volume pot pulled up, since those two coils aren't going to be hum-cancelling in combination.

[JohnH]

Hi Adam - congrats for getting that together,

Further to neweys comment:

Do position 2 and 4 sound properly in phase? (they would be very thin and nasty if they werent). the screwdriver pulloff test will check that.
The hum should be less than either middle of neck and bridge singles on their own, but may not be zero

Heres another check - for which you need to work out which coil is active when you coil cut - by tapping the poles lightly with a screwdriver. When coil cut, the coil that is cut out will get quieter (but you may still hear it). So, when you have worked that out, get something with a magnet - (compass, fridge magnet or a spare pickup) and find out if the middle pickup and the active humbucker coils are opposite magnetic polarity - they should be, ie, one should attract and the other repel a given third magnet.

In phase, humcancelling combinations of two coils will always have different magnetic polarities. That factoid is handy to know because it cuts across all winding directions, start/finish. colour codes and manufacturers etc.

John

[Adam]

And it may appear that my middle pickup was a dud. I was starting to get annoyed by the hum/buzz in positions 2 and 4. I pulled out a compass to do a polarity test. Outside coils of both humbuckers are north, inside coils are south. Middle pickup is south. So I now have a feeling that I may need to switch the coils for splitting/autotapping to the outside coils, but I'm not sure if I have to reverse any leads as I don't really know which direction the coils of the humbuckers are wound in.

[newey]

Since the SSL-52 in the middle position is available in both NWNP and RWRP versions, it is certainly possible that you got one with the coil polarized South.

Simply swapping wires will put it out-of-phase with the others, assuming things are all in phase now, which it seems they are. As JohnH noted, you'd have a very thin sound if they were OOP.

You can easily get the opposite coils of the HBs on the auto-split. Look at the auto-split side of the 5-way switch. As I drew it originally, you have a light blue wire running from lug #3 of the 5-way to the back of the pot. This is grounding the coils of the HBs at positions 2 and 4.

Instead of grounding the coils at 2 and 4, to get the opposite coils of each HB, you want that light blue connection to go to the hot output instead. So, disconnect the light blue wire from the back of the pot, and connect it to the "common" lug on the other side of the 5-way (the lug with the black wire going to the Vol pot).

That's it, you're done. Your auto-split will now select the opposite coils of each HB at positions 2 and 4.

[Adam]

It has been solved. I just swapped all the wires on the humbuckers so that the red wire is the hot, green and black are the split and white is the ground. So now in positions 2 and 4, I get the outer coils with the middle pickups. No noise! I am happy.

[newey]

Glad you got it working, Adam!

You went the hard way, wiring the HBs "inside out", but the net result is the same either way.

[Adam]

Feb 21, 2013 10:21:39 GMT -5 newey said:

Glad you got it working, Adam!

You went the hard way, wiring the HBs "inside out", but the net result is the same either way.

Oh damn, it would've saved me so much trouble. I went ahead and rewired the humbuckers "inside out" as you said before I even read your previous comment. Oh well, at least I got the result I wanted. The whole guitar is pretty much hum/buzz free. The single coil by itself is still pretty quiet with only a tiny bit of humming. The hard work put into shielding every known cavity of my guitar must've paid off. Once again, thank you for all your help. I won't say the guitar is perfect yet as there might still be some other faults in my wiring, so we'll have to wait and see, but for the time being, I am happy with it.

[JohnH]

Feb 21, 2013 11:20:33 GMT -5 Adam said:

Feb 21, 2013 10:21:39 GMT -5 newey said:

Glad you got it working, Adam!

You went the hard way, wiring the HBs "inside out", but the net result is the same either way.

Oh damn, it would've saved me so much trouble. I went ahead and rewired the humbuckers "inside out" as you said before I even read your previous comment. Oh well, at least I got the result I wanted. The whole guitar is pretty much hum/buzz free. The single coil by itself is still pretty quiet with only a tiny bit of humming. The hard work put into shielding every known cavity of my guitar must've paid off. Once again, thank you for all your help. I won't say the guitar is perfect yet as there might still be some other faults in my wiring, so we'll have to wait and see, but for the time being, I am happy with it.

Just to make you feel better, I think that what you did to fix the coils humcancelling, ie swapping the coils and still shunting to ground, is very slightly better than shunting to hot. The more bits of disused wiring that are hanging on the hot side, the slightly more external buzz it can pick up, while grounded elements dont do this. This would possibly make a difference if your humbuckers were uncovered.

So well done

J

[langen]

Hi, about CTRL-X, what kind of CTRL-X do you use, and do you have wiring graphs. Did you still use your 8 Voice window solution?

[newey]

langen-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Adam is the only one who can answer your query, and he stops by only infrequently. So, it's a bit of a crapshoot as to whether he sees your post here. Your best bet is probably to send him a personal message (PM), which he will then see as soon as he logs on the next time. Or, if he has shared his email through his profile, you can email him as well.

Just click on the username to access his profile, and then either PM him or email him if available.