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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2013 9:21:55 GMT -5
That's right, i did some tests by ear and that seems to be the case. A supposedly 1.2+ Volt output active pup (EMG 81) being weaker in output than a powerful mini rails outputting 321 mV (Dimarzio Fast Track 2). Soon i will have the Carvin in shape (i hope) and do some tests against Dimarzio Super Distortion full size humbucker.
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bluemurder
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Post by bluemurder on Apr 18, 2013 5:07:59 GMT -5
Did you try these with the same guitar?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 5:21:03 GMT -5
Did you try these with the same guitar? No, that's not possible since the Aria strat is not routed for H, its SSS. In the meantime, Fast track2 is one of the most powerful mini-rails out there. A lot of people on the net claim the same thing, that the EMG81 especially in the bridge is a medium output pup compared to the many hot passives out there, or rather in the high end of the medium output HBs, or in the low end of the high output HBs. Also, i noticed what most people with 81/60, 81/85 claim, that the neck pup (60 or 85) overwhelms the 81in bridge, and have to bury the neck too low to balance power. For some reason tho, the 81 still sounds fantastic for cleans (jazzy, bluesy) and even better for distortion. This pup is very weird. A fact that sort of justifies 81's low output is the market for EMG booster products sold in kit along with the 81 (Kerry king kit, etc...) |
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knot
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Post by knot on Aug 31, 2013 4:58:08 GMT -5
i have the KH21 with the 81/81 set in it and have used it on a few guitars and will have to say that EMG active is NOT a high output pickup and does not claim to be. they actually advise you to raise the acitve pups closer to the strings. the thing with most active pups is that they keep a consistent volume... sorta like a compressor. there is no volume loss when bending... it is a consistent output... not boosted. one other thing about EMG active... they advise removing the ground wire that is usually attached to the bridge on passive pickup guitars. the EMGs are 'self' grounded... but not much into the electronics end of it. so i don't know how... but it plainly states on the website about removing the ground wire. what i do is just roll that sucker up and tuck it somewhere so if i go back to passive... i can reattach.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 2:22:35 GMT -5
Hi, i dont know about the ground on my ibby arz800, cause i bought it stock, never opened up the electronics cavity, i am still in the warranty. But i think that EMG likes the perpetuation of the myth that EMG 81 is a high output monster. Well, compared to the original PAF maybe, but nothing close to the high output HBs by dimarzio or seymour duncan, not to talk about live wires, or blackouts. EMG gives voltage rating 3V RMS for EMG 81, and i have read many people to use that figure. for instance : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMG_81or www.emgpickups.com/products/index/202/294/1+ the fact that those pups (at least the HBs) are targeting metal audience, i guess they like to be advertised as "high output". |
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Post by lunaalta on Sept 2, 2013 9:20:09 GMT -5
 First thing I do when I change strings........LOL.  Just joking........... you can carry on now...... 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 9:47:44 GMT -5
First thing I do when I change strings........LOL. Just joking........... you can carry on now...... lol, the typical strat mod diehard : i gotta change strings, what a lovely opportunity for some additional wiring really, the ibanez has this warranty "seal" that i am still reluctant to break/damage. If it plays good don't touch it (or if it mods well, keep on modding !!) |
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Post by lunaalta on Sept 6, 2013 9:52:06 GMT -5
Actually, GD, I don't mod my guitars that much. I quieted my 73 Strat and my tech changed out the over worn neck. That's about it. It does sound very nice though...... |
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 7, 2013 4:56:29 GMT -5
GD,
Had the 60/81 combo in my ESP EC 401fm. They were well matched and by ESP's body contour the 60 was automatically further from the strings than the 81 in the bridge. I had done my usual bottom up adjustment on them, but found ESP's factory setup was as good as it got (Measured first before tweaking). They mixed well in the center position maintaining the bassiiness of the neck, and the twanginess of the bridge without either being overwhelming in the mix.
As far as "hotness" goes, I don't think it's fair to compare active and passive pups in that way, they DO different things and amps respond very differently between the two at similar volume settings.
While I liked them at first, the EMG's were eventually the reason I returned the ESP, too sterile sounding at low volumes and too shrieking at high volumes... Very hard for a plugger like me to find a sweet spot in the middle...
YMMV.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 9:40:15 GMT -5
Thanx, can you please clarify, how about strumming clean and assessing the feeling by ear ? I am saying this, cause i also got Seymour Duncan LiveWire Classic and Metal, and especially with "Metal" i can plug the earphone directly to the guitar. Plugged it distorts anything Although i dont like that noise anymore (and lack of attack) i was surprised to see on-line ppl comparing pups and putting the EMG 81/85/60 in the same bucket as the LivveWires (or their blackout modern counterparts). I thought i should just point this out. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 9:41:20 GMT -5
Actually, GD, I don't mod my guitars that much. I quieted my 73 Strat and my tech changed out the over worn neck. That's about it. It does sound very nice though...... you mean the frets ?? or the whole neck? |
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Post by lunaalta on Sept 8, 2013 11:30:27 GMT -5
No, it was the complete neck. The hard coating on all sides of the old maple neck had 'chipped off' and the wood underneath blackened. I was going to have the whole thing re finished and re fretted (they were really worn), but in the end went for a new, maple/rosewood replacement, for now. And, I always open things up, especially guitars, just to see what condition everything is in, on the inside. A bit like looking under the hood of your car, is how I see it. Anyway, sorry for the hijack......... |
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 9, 2013 8:34:34 GMT -5
Thanx, can you please clarify, how about strumming clean and assessing the feeling by ear ? I am saying this, cause i also got Seymour Duncan LiveWire Classic and Metal, and especially with "Metal" i can plug the earphone directly to the guitar. Plugged it distorts anything Although i dont like that noise anymore (and lack of attack) i was surprised to see on-line ppl comparing pups and putting the EMG 81/85/60 in the same bucket as the LivveWires (or their blackout modern counterparts). I thought i should just point this out. As I asses everything by ear.... Strumming clean had very similar volume levels with each pup and just a tad louder with them together. Not that my ears could compare to one of JohnH's response charts, but the reaction in sound along the volume control just seems very different on active vs conventional pups in my limited experience. Do you want to mix active and passive GD? I seriously considered it with the ESP, but decided I'd rather just convert it completely to conventional... I was thisclose to buying the PA2 from EMG and then I played this goofy Fender Marauder and it was just easier to return it and "trade down" (as it were) to something more my speed. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 8:47:04 GMT -5
Do you want to mix active and passive GD? No, i am currently pleased with the 81/60 combination, no complaints whatsoever. I was thisclose to buying the PA2 from EMG So, you thought they are not very powerful ? The existence of PA2 or AB is an indication that those pups in stock condition are of moderate power output (especially if we the think their target audience, accustomed to X2N, and dimebuckers, JBs and other such high output monsters). I would classify them near classic PAF range. (Just a tiny bit weaker than high-output rails, and definitely weaker than high output passive humbuckers) Coming from livewires, regarding clarity and definition, the EMGs were a pleasant surprise. I'll definitely keep them. They can sound bluesy-jazzy too! (or is it in the mahogany wood   ) |
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 9, 2013 9:09:20 GMT -5
power is a relative term.
The "hot wound" pups in my Blacktop Tele were so muddy and low compared to the much less wound Pearly Gates which sounds so clean up to 4ish range and so much more powerful beyond that compared to the stock pups (and it's lower in the pup ring) with my typical Mustang III most used settings (usually a Twin, Champ, Princeton, or Vox).
Yes, when I used settings with preamp boost and effects before the amp, the stocks were "louder" on those settings, but on clean the definition loss was so great it didn't matter how "hot" they were.
The DiMarzio SD is in the same impedance range as the stock pups, and I only had to back it off a bit more than the original neck pup to get it to blend nicely with the pearly gates. Both pups are further away from the strings than the stocks... and both are technically "less powerful" but clearly have more usable sound.
Again... YMMV.
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 9, 2013 9:11:45 GMT -5
oh.... the PA2 is more to make up for the impedance difference in the pups and pots when you mix them, it's not really about hotness.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 9:31:45 GMT -5
oh.... the PA2 is more to make up for the impedance difference in the pups and pots when you mix them, it's not really about hotness. I guess its about hotness, unless i am misreading, or didnt quite get the theory behind impedance difference. They do not mention anything about mixing. They just say that their product works for passives as well. Its still a 20 db booster in either case. |
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 9, 2013 9:53:22 GMT -5
If you are using it on active pups only, yes... BUT... If you want to blend passive and active pickups, the PA2 is what's recommended to do so as it HAS a trim pot to match up level differences between the two IF you need it. From the PDF of the PA2"high impedance pickups will have their output impedance converted to low impedance in both switch positions." So it's both a booster (if you want) and an a defacto impedance matcher. My intention was to just use it as an impedance matcher. Furthermore, I actually contacted EMG about this when I was considering converting one or both pups to conventional and leaving the pots stock (so I could revert it when selling), and they said they make a PA2 without a toggle (dip switch model) to just put in the cavity for that purpose (no drilling!). It's not listed on the site, but if you call them they will sell you one. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 10:29:16 GMT -5
Yes, i recall their tech support was superb. They are almost acting as a small shop, they can make whatever you want. They are a bit pricey tho.
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 9, 2013 11:07:29 GMT -5
Considering the price of some CTS 500K pots plus caps and the time spent, $47 is a cheap easy way to convert an active guitar to conventional pups (without drilling a hole), plus!, for only a few bucks more they'll give you their quick connectors to put on the pups (I think they include one). JohnH has done an extensive amount of work in this area. If you search "active passive" in thread titles, you'll find a boatload of information. He really is the expert. |
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