jojoguitar
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Post by jojoguitar on Jul 5, 2013 5:25:39 GMT -5
Without pretending to be a metallurgy expert here, not even an amateur, my knowledge is close to absent, it is astonishing how many pages i found around the web, but also in vivo experience (alloy wheels in cars being more expensive than standard steel-iron ones), suggesting that Aluminum is more expensive, equally strong, and lighter than steel (in short preferable). Aluminum can be as strong and stiff as the hardest steel (steel is just upgraded iron, of course pure aluminum is not so strong either, needs processing before it reaches the desired properties), for most practical applications. Problem is price. Cars made of aluminum are more expensive than cars made of steel. Marine vessels made of aluminum are more expensive than steel ones, etc... Given that paradigm, i would go and claim that the aluminum block by super-vee has no reason to be less expensive than brass or steel. In these quantities material does not matter. Its no gold, or silver in the first place. What adds to the cost is the machining process. So all the arguments of jojo regarding costs, but also regarding durability of the material, and wear rates (aluminum vs steel), for which he almost methodically didn't even once miss to append the word "cheap", can be safely thrown to the garbage can. Hey , 4 real is right , your confirmation bias, my confirmed bias ( as I have experienced both ) is causing a conflict and it has got childish. But I'm not calling your maths into question and I'm not calling your comments garbage. I think raw the material cost is a red herring as far as the actual cost to produce etc. Yes I have confirmed bias, because I've used both and I made my choice, I have never said I was neutral, I love the tone of steel blocks, I love the Wudtone product. I love how is it has transformed the guitar and I love the difference it has made to the way I feel about and play that guitar. I have no doubt confirmation bias is gonna make you love what you have bought and I hope you get just as much satisfaction. I like what 4 real, suggests, one day when I have time, I will share some audio and a waveform. Be interesting. chrs |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 8:29:41 GMT -5
Just got the thing! From visual inspection everything seems fine. I already cross-checked the size/dimension of the block. Seems correct. The unit is very light. Let's if the "heavier=better" myth gets busted this time. Also the bar is setup a little stiff for my tastes. I have to make it more free-moving. Also i saw no particular slack in it.
I will have to wait 2-3 weeks for the family to go on vacation to put my hands on the guitars again. Thank you all for your valuable input.
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Post by 4real on Jul 5, 2013 17:24:42 GMT -5
Just got the thing! From visual inspection everything seems fine. I already cross-checked the size/dimension of the block. Seems correct. The unit is very light. Let's if the "heavier=better" myth gets busted this time. Also the bar is setup a little stiff for my tastes. I have to make it more free-moving. Also i saw no particular slack in it. I will have to wait 2-3 weeks for the family to go on vacation to put my hands on the guitars again. Thank you all for your valuable input. There's a "heavier=better myth"? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 22:57:02 GMT -5
definitely, and i am sure you have heard of it. gibson LP, huge trem sustain brass/stell blocks, meaty-ballsy tuning keys, the list goes on. PPl might have thought Weight might be a way to reduce wood harmonics canceling/absorbing string energy. just check it. |
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Post by 4real on Jul 6, 2013 18:59:45 GMT -5
definitely, and i am sure you have heard of it. gibson LP, huge trem sustain brass/stell blocks, meaty-ballsy tuning keys, the list goes on. PPl might have thought Weight might be a way to reduce wood harmonics canceling/absorbing string energy. just check it. Well, only from those that misunderstand the principles at work, especially in realtion to the LP for instance. The origonal 'log' of Les Paul was solid core with a hollow body strapped to either side. I grew up in the era of 'brass parts' where there was a lot of mojo about, but that was in the late 70's and replacement parts were rare and only just begining. My Lp was brass-ified back then, even the pickup rings were brass, brass nuts...you name it. But, brass is easy to work and plate,,,and this was after all over 30 years ago, I'd ahve thought and all assumed that this era and attitude was long passed. It is not the weight as such as much as the 'stiffness' and a lot of things, like the trem assembly on a strat, are only a small part of this equation. All kinds of manufacturers jumped on this bandwagon, Fenders 'elite' (?) even switching to 'brass knobs' at the time... After all, the bridge is effectively suspended on springs on a strat, the woods lighter and essentially the strat is a hollowbody with a plastic top on it, there is so much wood taken out of the crucial area between the bridge and the neck by the spring cavity and pickup locations, even more by the bathtub routs, that there is very little of that 'stiffness' in the cructial area at all between the bridge and the neck. It is really all about the dampening forces, nothing is going to make a string gain energy, but many things can dampen that energy, neck joins and the whole neck structure for instance plays a huge role. An LP neck is an extremely stiff structue, glued in and supported way up the upper ise. The mahodany is very stiff and capped by ebony typically which is tough as...the opposite of something like a strat neck..now you chew out scolloping and you have something that reduces stiffness even further. Some of the most 'sustainiy guitars' are things like the steinberger which have a hollow neck but made of very stiff light weight carbon. There is also a matter of 'mass' holding the strings too, you can easily do experiements with adding mass to the headstock on a strat say, which can dramatically make the damping forces less... But then, everything also comes at some other side effects too, sustain needs to be balanced to the kind of 'sound/tone' one is after, which comes with these strategies. A les Paul has a lot of sustain but also 'blooms' while a strat or telly has an explosive attack followed by a fairly pure but low volume decay. Again one needs to consider not duration but the ASDR asects of a note (attack-sustain-decay-release) of a note which has the biggest influence on how one percieves things like 'tone'. Gibson themselves ahve been taking to hollowing out the back mahogany part of LP's for some time, as your first link on google demonstrates, the substantially thick 'maple cap' provides the bulk of the 'stiffness' and the mahogany being largely 'filler' to at least a great extent...besides, they don't hollow between the bridge and neck other than for the necessary pickup and wiring routs. On things like hardware, brass and zinc tend to be fairly soft so not particularly hard wearing, but easy to cast and machine. Aluminium has quite a bit of history in guitar parts, but not from makers like Fender and Gibson. It is also not great for wearing and cant be plated, but is light and can be very stiff. So, in a block, sure, there are no real wearing surfaces nor is it visual or require plating. It can be cast or machined easily, when I thread it, I just use harden steel bolts to do so and they can easyly 'cut' it. It is britle though and can fracture, but not under gutiar string tensions anduse I would suspect. Threading a steal arm into it, well, remains to be seen regarding thread wear there, I imagine it relies somewhat on use and care over time. Renaming aluminium (alloys vary) "sustainium" though is a big 'mojo' red falg, but sure, why not...at the very least it will only oxidise (making the surface harder) rather than rust as with steel! As far as 'sustain' sure, it is very 'stiff' but light in mass. But really, that whole 'block thing' is only a small part compared to all the other factors at play in a guitar like a strat. But then a lot of the 'strat' is really about the 'chraracter of the note' rather than just one aspect, the 'sustain'. T%he most influential apsect is the 'attack' because of the way our brains are wired. The character of this initial sound overwhelms most others, the LP has a comparatively 'slow attack' that 'blooms' into the sustain, a hallmark of LP players from Kossof to Slash. As I say, the imporat aspects to consider are the shape of the note, not just the length of the note....and one can not separate thins cleanly or supplant one from the other. It just happens that some of the stiffest materials and hard wearing in traditional guitar materials and traditions, were things like steel...remember that we are talking about an era when there were few other materials practically avialable. When first introduced, aluminium as an alloy was many, many more times more valuable ($) than gold. The whole $$ value aspect of things is a complete red herring in such discussions and means nothing at all. And, we know little to none as to this particular block is made, is it cast aluminium (a lot easier to do than steel) or cut...a 'short block' looks like it is more expensive because some machining is required to cut the standard long block down than to make a separate 'cast'...if it were CNC machined for instance, one might think that changing the program to do shorter ones would be little trouble. Then again, compared to steel, the ability to machine CNC is so much easier than on steel, it is stiff, but quite easy to cut and drill...I make my parts all with your standard wood working tools and I find it just about as easy to work and for soem things easier. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 0:10:18 GMT -5
Thanx 4real, quite legit. Only one objection : this particular scalloped neck of mine is very stiff. Don't know if this helps reduced lost string energy or not, but putting 11's on this feels equal great, and the truss rod adjustments minimal, compared to other necks of mine (like Carvin). However, i know that in the current setup of the guitars among my two strats (the ocean blue scalloped partscaster and the old Aria), Aria with the softer neck, sustains more at specific notes of interest.
Also, sustain might not follow a constant pattern across the fretboard.
So to summarize, to measure sustain we would have to take the integral on the ASDR area of each fret (up to 21) and then take the integral over all frets. That would definitely measure sustain in a uniform and well defined manner. However, it is this "feeling" on certain notes that are of interest to me. My ocean blue scalloped strat plays ok, no complaints. If i manage to give it a little more "volume" it would be great. If this experiment with the super-vee succeeds, then i will look into upgrading pups as well.
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jojoguitar
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Post by jojoguitar on Jul 8, 2013 6:32:11 GMT -5
definitely, and i am sure you have heard of it. gibson LP, huge trem sustain brass/stell blocks, meaty-ballsy tuning keys, the list goes on. PPl might have thought Weight might be a way to reduce wood harmonics canceling/absorbing string energy. just check it. Well, only from those that misunderstand the principles at work, especially in realtion to the LP for instance. The origonal 'log' of Les Paul was solid core with a hollow body strapped to either side. I grew up in the era of 'brass parts' where there was a lot of mojo about, but that was in the late 70's and replacement parts were rare and only just begining. My Lp was brass-ified back then, even the pickup rings were brass, brass nuts...you name it. But, brass is easy to work and plate,,,and this was after all over 30 years ago, I'd ahve thought and all assumed that this era and attitude was long passed. It is not the weight as such as much as the 'stiffness' and a lot of things, like the trem assembly on a strat, are only a small part of this equation. All kinds of manufacturers jumped on this bandwagon, Fenders 'elite' (?) even switching to 'brass knobs' at the time... After all, the bridge is effectively suspended on springs on a strat, the woods lighter and essentially the strat is a hollowbody with a plastic top on it, there is so much wood taken out of the crucial area between the bridge and the neck by the spring cavity and pickup locations, even more by the bathtub routs, that there is very little of that 'stiffness' in the cructial area at all between the bridge and the neck. It is really all about the dampening forces, nothing is going to make a string gain energy, but many things can dampen that energy, neck joins and the whole neck structure for instance plays a huge role. An LP neck is an extremely stiff structue, glued in and supported way up the upper ise. The mahodany is very stiff and capped by ebony typically which is tough as...the opposite of something like a strat neck..now you chew out scolloping and you have something that reduces stiffness even further. Some of the most 'sustainiy guitars' are things like the steinberger which have a hollow neck but made of very stiff light weight carbon. There is also a matter of 'mass' holding the strings too, you can easily do experiements with adding mass to the headstock on a strat say, which can dramatically make the damping forces less... But then, everything also comes at some other side effects too, sustain needs to be balanced to the kind of 'sound/tone' one is after, which comes with these strategies. A les Paul has a lot of sustain but also 'blooms' while a strat or telly has an explosive attack followed by a fairly pure but low volume decay. Again one needs to consider not duration but the ASDR asects of a note (attack-sustain-decay-release) of a note which has the biggest influence on how one percieves things like 'tone'. Gibson themselves ahve been taking to hollowing out the back mahogany part of LP's for some time, as your first link on google demonstrates, the substantially thick 'maple cap' provides the bulk of the 'stiffness' and the mahogany being largely 'filler' to at least a great extent...besides, they don't hollow between the bridge and neck other than for the necessary pickup and wiring routs. On things like hardware, brass and zinc tend to be fairly soft so not particularly hard wearing, but easy to cast and machine. Aluminium has quite a bit of history in guitar parts, but not from makers like Fender and Gibson. It is also not great for wearing and cant be plated, but is light and can be very stiff. So, in a block, sure, there are no real wearing surfaces nor is it visual or require plating. It can be cast or machined easily, when I thread it, I just use harden steel bolts to do so and they can easyly 'cut' it. It is britle though and can fracture, but not under gutiar string tensions anduse I would suspect. Threading a steal arm into it, well, remains to be seen regarding thread wear there, I imagine it relies somewhat on use and care over time. Renaming aluminium (alloys vary) "sustainium" though is a big 'mojo' red falg, but sure, why not...at the very least it will only oxidise (making the surface harder) rather than rust as with steel! As far as 'sustain' sure, it is very 'stiff' but light in mass. But really, that whole 'block thing' is only a small part compared to all the other factors at play in a guitar like a strat. But then a lot of the 'strat' is really about the 'chraracter of the note' rather than just one aspect, the 'sustain'. T%he most influential apsect is the 'attack' because of the way our brains are wired. The character of this initial sound overwhelms most others, the LP has a comparatively 'slow attack' that 'blooms' into the sustain, a hallmark of LP players from Kossof to Slash. As I say, the imporat aspects to consider are the shape of the note, not just the length of the note....and one can not separate thins cleanly or supplant one from the other. It just happens that some of the stiffest materials and hard wearing in traditional guitar materials and traditions, were things like steel...remember that we are talking about an era when there were few other materials practically avialable. When first introduced, aluminium as an alloy was many, many more times more valuable ($) than gold. The whole $$ value aspect of things is a complete red herring in such discussions and means nothing at all. And, we know little to none as to this particular block is made, is it cast aluminium (a lot easier to do than steel) or cut...a 'short block' looks like it is more expensive because some machining is required to cut the standard long block down than to make a separate 'cast'...if it were CNC machined for instance, one might think that changing the program to do shorter ones would be little trouble. Then again, compared to steel, the ability to machine CNC is so much easier than on steel, it is stiff, but quite easy to cut and drill...I make my parts all with your standard wood working tools and I find it just about as easy to work and for soem things easier. Wow, 4real you really know your stuff, it resonates with my own ( as far as it goes ) experience. Anyway here is a sound sample of my guitar ( played with a few different pickup positions you will no doubt detect) . Plugged straight into an old line 6 guitarport ( BLUE BALLAD setting) and the MP3 file is captured from line out of the guitarport onto a ZOOM H2 MP3 recorder. This MP3 file is then opened in Audacity to see how it looks here.  You will hear the trem function/stability at the start / end . The last chord is being whammied up and down sustaining 1:55.5 to 2:23.5 before being barely audible. I'm really happy with the character of the tone (the use of cold rolled steel has always improved my guitars) being to my ears a classic strat sound. What do you think? The 28 seconds of sustain is more than enough to fill the often large gaps in my playing lol . You know how I feel about the Wudtone bridge, basically it has taken thsi guitar to another level, regardless of the heat, I do hope you can get as much satisfaction from your choice. As I said before, IMHO they are very different in weight, look, feel, tone, sustain and you can only really know which is best fit for your needs ( and find out the real, red flag mojo ( is that the same as feldergarb?)) after you have really experienced. chrs |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 7:18:10 GMT -5
nice melodies man, but You will hear the trem function/stability at the start / end . The last chord is being whammied up and down sustaining 1:55.5 to 2:23.5 before being barely audible. The 28 seconds of sustain is more than enough to fill the often large gaps in my playing lol . Sorry i put volume to 10, could not hear anything past 2:05, which chord is it? Can you write the notes of the last chord? |
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jojoguitar
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Post by jojoguitar on Jul 8, 2013 8:02:07 GMT -5
nice melodies man, but You will hear the trem function/stability at the start / end . The last chord is being whammied up and down sustaining 1:55.5 to 2:23.5 before being barely audible. The 28 seconds of sustain is more than enough to fill the often large gaps in my playing lol . Sorry i put volume to 10, could not hear anything past 2:05, which chord is it? Can you write the notes of the last chord I think it is em7, Anyway here is a magnified image of the wave of last chord,  things are visibly happening, here till 2:21 so I guess as 4real mentions, it is useful to have a wave to see as well as hear. chrs |
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Post by 4real on Jul 8, 2013 14:26:11 GMT -5
Sounds like a lovely strat there and very sustainy. And yes, I can audibly hear it if I try till 2:22 about. Now this is virtually completely clean (though it is reverbed so not completely dry) and possibly the effect has a bit of compression on it, but that will not make the strings actually vibrate longer. Better yet to record completely dry so no effect is in the waveform itself and add the effects to it with VST's later. You could even have something like this and get seemingly endless sustain if you wish... I't 4am here so will keep it brief-ish...I don't know how much of this is the bridge or bridge block or down to 'mass' but changing the 'mass' of things tends to have a dramatic effect on the resonance frequencies of things nad it is a lot harder for the vibrations of the string to 'shake' say a headstck if i has extra 'mass' to it. So, I can get quite a big difference on some guitars when I change out tuners. A set of very good locking tuners will often be quite heavy for instance and make quite a bit of difference to the neck damping effect. One can test this by adding something like a small clamp to the headstock say. While at it, dampen off behind the nut with a sock and see if those behind the nut vibrations are having a dampening effect. Honestly though, quite a bit seems to be fetishising and with gobs of distortion, very hard to tell what is going on at all. Distortion adds tremendous amounts of compression and your 28 secods whould be loud till the end using that effect. Of course waggling the trem has a bit of a 'violining effect' like vibrato does to extend sustain... Myself, I've traditionally always played, at least live back in the day, with an old analog delay at around 300ms low in the background that makes the sound 'full' and some depth, a chorus effect when the trem is used, and cover gaps in changes and from note to note...even helps with timing in a way. And, once you play with any kind of volume, the potential for acoustic feedback to extend notes is a lot greater. All my demos have tended towards being recorded dry, direct to the computer, or at least recorded with no romm sound monitored directly (so no latency issues) at the interface with headphones. ANyway, it is a lovely sounding strat and the wave forms are instructive, if one wanted to get really 'silly' with the analysis, one could zomm in on the wave in a very, very fine detail. What is giving that 'strat sound' though, as far as the note is going, is that wave 'shape' though. The 'attack' at the front of the note, the sustain and the smmoth decay and in this case a natural fade/release on that last chord. On others, the note or chord might be cut off quickly creating a different effect. Now the wave of an LP might be seen to extend the volume of that intitial atttack a lot longer, so not so much a 'burst' followwed by a long low sustain. Similarly, a tele might ahve a quicker 'twang' attack and a very long almost sign wave like sustain. Another improtant aspect of the perception of the note is the harmonic content, the frequencies of things. The 'tone' will be in this kind of 'mix', it is not that the fundamental will last a long time, but how long the complexity of the note sustains after that initial complex burst. For that one can run a frequency analyser over it, I think that audacity ahs a decent one, reaper has all kinds of analysing tools that are gooe like that and can reveal much. And yes, one can hear it and what sounds good is, but 'confirmation bias' is the reason the scientific method was developed, none of us are immune. Particularly if there is money involved or when something precious is modified. There is an incredible desire to think and believe your choice is 'better' and so it will seem that way. Of course, in much of this, 'better' is subjective. That's a lovely soundinhg strat, very well intonated and stays in tune through the trem action, what more could you want 'functionally'. I'm not sure I have anything much of my strat of a compartive test, there is a little tune rcorded directly to demo it, but would not be so clear I am sure as that was not the point and I record very infrequently and not been playing electrically for a long time now... www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1157263&songID=10409860&showPlayer=trueBTW, I note it is very quiet too, little if any hiss...do you have noise cancelling pups or something? GD seems to have trouble record SC pups on hiss strat. On my guitars, I don't 'aim' for a 'classic' strat sound but something unique though obviously 'strat like' So, on mine there are modern HSS noiseless pups that are a bit hotter than trad strats and a thinner mahgany body, quite different from a trad strat too, identifiably 'stratty' though. Other aspects of equal importance is that it stays in tune, is intonated in tune and works functionally. 'Sustain is less of an 'issue' for me and don't like to think of things with one isolated aspect, the mind will extend to extend notes even in scilence if a gap is let anyway, instruments like a 'lute' ahve very little sustain at all, yet can play 'slow melodies'. What you might be able to hear in my gutiar is perhaps a 'slower' attack and slight 'bloom' of the harmonics, perhaps not...I've never run a spectrum analyser over it...but it sounds to me like it has a 'softer attack' than say your classic strat sound. I could imagine that the 'block' might have some influence over this, but perhaps not, perhaps it is the overall combination of things. Regardless, it is not some 'sporting occupation' and there are no real 'bragging rights' for who's guitar sustains so many ms longer than another surely. I mean to say, my tele has a bright burst attack followed by a long sustain, but also a sustainer that will literally sustain a string vibrating hard for asd long as you like...but the thing is then to ask, what exactly are you going to do with it musically that you need this kind of sustain for? And as Sumgai I think said earlier, what is it that makes people that play a thousand notes a secod also desire longer sustain...it always seems to be an association. Perhaps, it is an addiction to excess or soemthing...faster, louder, more powerful, more sustain...rather thinking of what 'sounds good' for what one wants to do. And so, this too supports the idea that one might want to have a few different gutiars that do something different in things like 'sustain' and harmonic content and note shape. With an LP, ntable players have tended to play slower more sustainy lines or so it seems. The tone is harmonically rich for a lot longer than a fenders 'burst' and tha 'attack seems to 'bloom' as well. Pickups might be senstitive to different frequencies, but only the guitar is able to really alter these aspects of note shape and content. Of course, if you want one 'identificble' sound, one guitar might do the job perfectly well... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 23:35:37 GMT -5
I like that!! sustain wars!!!
I think yesterday i did 20 full seconds Em7 (audible), with my anemic dimarzio HS3. Things might change after pups upgrade tho.
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jojoguitar
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Post by jojoguitar on Jul 9, 2013 10:35:21 GMT -5
BTW, I note it is very quiet too, little if any hiss...do you have noise cancelling pups or something? Hi 4 real, thank you for the kind words and insight , quite fascinating. Had a listen to the audio, loved it. re the quiet. I have just used plain old 2inch copper tape to shield the control cavity and underneath the pickguard. chrs |
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Post by 4real on Jul 9, 2013 17:01:57 GMT -5
BTW, I note it is very quiet too, little if any hiss...do you have noise cancelling pups or something? Hi 4 real, thank you for the kind words and insight , quite fascinating. Had a listen to the audio, loved it. re the quiet. I have just used plain old 2inch copper tape to shield the control cavity and underneath the pickguard. chrs Thanks... Everybody perhaps wants something different out of their guitars, from something that makes a classic strat sound to...well, who knows what! The gallery has my strat here mahogany-hss-contemporary-stratand features a lot of different pickup selection options so the 'demo' was thrown together to kind of demo that. Obviously it is not a 'classic strat' kind of guitar but still has 'strat like' qualities. I chose not to change the bridge because if it is not broke why bother and because, I am broke and my guitars are built over a long time and on a tight budget as a rule. I've favoured noiseless pickups in everything these days as the only thing I want to hear coming out of the gutiar is the guitar itself and to not react to different environments like lights and computers and such. I tend to extensively use shielded cables inside all my guitars and seems good enough, but my strat also came with a shielded paint and foil backed plate in the control cavity and is pretty 'silent'. It was recorded with phones, directly in front of my lap top thru phones for instance and none of my guitars seem to exhibit interference from it... As I recall, a lot of the distortion sounds were done with amp sims in the recorder. The demo was also of the Behringer cheap acoustic sim pedal as I think many should consider soemthing like that over trying to 'piezo' the electric guitar with similar results, cheaper, easier and can be used on any guitar... If I want/need sustain...that's what the telecaster is for, as well as fullest range tremolo and ultimate tuning stability... Tele part 1Tele part 2 |
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Post by andypwudtone on Dec 24, 2013 10:45:15 GMT -5
Andy, Normally I sit back on this forum, and just let it flow with as little hindrance as possible. Usually, I post when I see something that's either unsafe and likely to cause harm, or when I see that one's wallet is about to undergo a cashectomy. Sure, once in awhile I also engage others for a bit of humor, but by and large, I like to not interfere. You need to know that since we're not speaking face-to-face, it's hard to marshall my thoughts into coherence and pertinence vis-a-vis the topic at hand. I've rewritten this posting several times now, and I'm still banging my head against the wall as to how to tell you politely that I'm not gonna back down, nor retract my statements, and yet how can I say that without sounding like a smug, smarmy a__hole. Terrible dilemma, even if I weren't the Administrator here, let me tell ya. Long story short is this: I've been around the block, almost too often. I've seen this scenario play out so often that I could probably write a book about it. But I don't, and you wanna know why? Because it takes all kinds, that's why. What works for you and yet doesn't work for me, that's only a statistically improbable sampling. Taking it to the streets, so to speak, that's the only way to prove what works and what doesn't. But the rub there is, like newey and others have pointed out, and as you have somewhat agreed, MarketingSpeak has a way of interfering with common sense. So I've learned to accept that little fact of life, and that I can sleep with it in full operation, 24x7 - no longer phases me in the least. All I can do now is say "if 50 millions buyers like it, then it must be good enough.... for them." That won't make it right for me (providing it never was in the first place), but then again, I don't have to buy the products for all of the 50 million users, just like they don't have to buy for me the product that I like because I think it works best for me. Thank Gawd for that!  I say, go forth and sell the thing. If you make a million euros, congratulations and my hat's off to you! But by the same token, please don't expect me to participate in promoting your product - put simply, I don't believe in it, and that's makes for the worst kind of salesman. Better to have a naysayer who's honest about it than a shill who's only in it for the money, and doesn't stick around to face the awkward questions when things don't go as expected. In closing, I need say only that everyone's opinion here is respected, regardless of differences in espoused viewpoints. Like the others who have mentioned it, I look forward to hearing from you, and others from Wudtone, regarding how to accomplish the various goals expressed by GuitarNutz. Engaging members in lively debates is one thing, but directly answering a question where one is well-qualified, that's the epitome of what we're all about - members helping members. Thanks for putting up with my randomly spastic utterances.  HTH sumgai Hello there, long time no debate. Here's wishing you all at Nutz a tone friendly Merry Christmas. all the latest news featuring new Texas based distributor, plus a guitar for Jacob Petersen ( Steve Miller Band) fitted with the Wudtone Constant Pivot Plate built by John Bolin ( the guy who builds for Billy Gibbons plus a few others you might know) . click on the link below us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=2cbf6e5a9ad94eeda813ee7f3&id=a6831786ae&e= Plus product here for anyone who ain't so keen on the two post trem tones, www.wudtone.com/2012/03/21/american-standard-wudtone-cp-vintage-tremolo-conversion/ Indeed wants to get back to some vintage lovelyness. couple of vids for ya one about tone one about original vintage plates and the Wudtone CP Plate set up and operatio. Merry Christmas |
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