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Post by ux4484 on Jul 9, 2013 21:12:48 GMT -5
I know we've discussed this before, but I recently heard/read a couple items where guitarists off-handedly mention they are using some $25 pick and now they can't go back.
Personally my middle aged hands need something Tactile that won't slip out from my fingertips. I've tried many over the years. I had been using Dunlop Gator grips, but they wear quickly and the sharkskin like surface wears flat (and shiny) after just a couple hours practice. I'm using Dunlop MaxGrip's now, and while they stay tactile and last forever, they are more bendy than the similar thickness Gator Grip pick and have a lackluster attack compared to my previous go-to thicknesses (.58-.71).
What are you guys using, and has anyone drank the Kool-aid?
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Post by 4real on Jul 9, 2013 23:12:58 GMT -5
Fingerpickers don't need picks! But when I did/do fender mediums that I've always used feel like home, jim dunlop M's are the same pretty much. I've never had much of a problem with picks flying away while actually playing, remembering where they are or dropping down the sound hole, well that's another thing... Let's face it, people tend to like 'gear' and will spend any amount of money, or so it seems, on any 'promises' or just to ahve 'the best' what ever that might be... Have you ever noticed that guitar forums, generally, have very little to do with playing the gutiar and even magazines are all ads and reviews of 'stuff'...anything to avoid actually playing the darn things it seems...  As JB says..."Picks are for fairies"... |
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 10, 2013 3:11:37 GMT -5
Wow, harsh much?  Having started in music as a bassist, it's not hard to guess I'm more of a rhythm guy. While I do use my fingers on bass and some acoustic songs, for the most part if there's a guitar in my hands, there is also a pick. Call Pete Townshend, Keith Richards, or John Lennon a fairy for (mostly) using a pick? I think not. I like Jeff and respect his place in music history... but for me "Freeway Jam" with Jan Hammer in '77 (Live) was a last hurrah and I haven't bought a recording of his since. At 50, I already have to stretch and warm up considerably to get up to my playing speed, I'm unlikely to stop using picks any time soon. It's funny you point out that guitar forums are all about gear and not about playing, but C'mon, gear (and tweaking of such) is this places bread and butter and how/why it started, why would you pick on that (pun intended)? Given that the snake oil was being bandied over greekdude's trem-Leo (bless you ChrisK), I was wondering about people's purchase confirmation over picks since I was last here, I'm unlikely to spend more than a few coins for picks, but if anyone HERE has ponied up for one, I'm more likely to take their word than elsewhere. |
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Post by 4real on Jul 10, 2013 4:24:43 GMT -5
Wow, harsh much? Having started in music as a bassist, it's not hard to guess I'm more of a rhythm guy. While I do use my fingers on bass and some acoustic songs, for the most part if there's a guitar in my hands, there is also a pick. Call Pete Townshend, Keith Richards, or John Lennon a fairy for (mostly) using a pick? I think not. I like Jeff and respect his place in music history... but for me "Freeway Jam" with Jan Hammer in '77 (Live) was a last hurrah and I haven't bought a recording of his since. At 50, I already have to stretch and warm up considerably to get up to my playing speed, I'm unlikely to stop using picks any time soon. It's funny you point out that guitar forums are all about gear and not about playing, but C'mon, gear (and tweaking of such) is this places bread and butter and how/why it started, why would you pick on that (pun intended)? Given that the snake oil was being bandied over greekdude's trem-Leo (bless you ChrisK), I was wondering about people's purchase confirmation over picks since I was last here, I'm unlikely to spend more than a few coins for picks, but if anyone HERE has ponied up for one, I'm more likely to take their word than elsewhere. Well, i just thought I'd expand the conversation beyond 'yet another pick thread'...etc. And yes, 'gear and tweaking' is the bread and butter here, but it makes no pretentions to be anything ellse...though as you can see quite a healthy dose of realisim and anti-fandom...generally... Of course there is a place for picks and I am not at all finding it easy to forgo the things...I actually have sworn off them and just have to try and make do for over a year now. I had always developed a kind of hybrid pick and two figers kind of thing anyway. The guitar world is full of snake oil, combined with this weird conservatisim, none of us I suggest are really immune to that. I imagine a part of this places direction though is in modding and taking things out of that 'tradition' really. As far as 'picks go'...well, everyone is different, Brian May did well with a coin after all. When I was young, i read somewhere some one played with a tiny 'jazz pick' so tried to force myself onto them. But still, I've always come back to the old fender mediums, I used to have a way of 'bending them' with the thumb and finger while playing that makes them very stiff. As for Beck, if he hadn't have dropped a car on his hand, who knows he might still be playing with one. His picking style is quate astonishing and worth checkingout more recent material as he has moved on quite a bit in technique and composition like no other. Mark Knophler too has a great 'fingerstyle' sound and phrasing. I've not seen these 'pick threads' and forums of that ilk, I can imagine though, but really I do wonder, why is there so few playing forums and so many 'gear' things about. Probably a 'guy thing', one can't help but notice the lack of feminity in the guitar world, no? Lots of more interesting topics in there, IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 5:03:14 GMT -5
Or maybe fingers are for Fairies?  Now bring me someone (fairy or not) who can play this by his/her fingers : |
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Post by JohnH on Jul 10, 2013 5:33:03 GMT -5
I'm unlikely to spend more than a few coins for picks, How about using a few coins for picks? Im thinking of Brian Mays famous sixpence:  Anyone else using some serious coin? Or, using other random objects. I tried playing with one of these the other day, and it works pretty nicely:  |
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Post by newey on Jul 10, 2013 6:11:20 GMT -5
I'm a pick guy, try as I might I can't seem to get anywhere with finger-picking. Picks just seem to suit my ham-handed playing better! Mostly I'm a Fender medium guy. I'm no shredder, certainly, and a pick will last me until I lose it. I usually find them in the washer after running a load. But, moving up my personal chart pretty fast is something called the "Grip Pick". It has an "S" curve to it and little grippy nubbins on the outside curvature. I apologize for the crappy photos (no macro setting on my GoPro video cam). But, just to give the idea:   It sort of "form fits" to one's thumb and finger, and is definitely easier to grip. But, like moving the fulcrum on a lever, it changes the angle and position of the pick in relation to one's hand, and so there's a definite learning curve. But, while these haven't surplanted to old standby Fender Mediums just yet, the more I use them, the more I like them. I forget now where I got these, I was ordering some parts and needed to add stuff to get to the free shipping amount, so I added these as an afterthought. But the brand name is "Grip". |
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 10, 2013 6:32:04 GMT -5
How about using a few coins for picks? Im thinking of Brian Mays famous sixpence: Anyone else using some serious coin? Or, using other random objects. I tried playing with one of these the other day, and it works pretty nicely: I did used to use a quarter back in my band days to play McCartney's "Goodnight Tonight" on the terrible Kingston Hofner copy I had then (flat wounds). It gave that bass the bite it needed for that song (very weak pups). I have no problem getting that sound out of my Fender these days with its round wounds and anyone's heavy pick. I don't like the Dunlop heavy gauges as they are either too stiff or too bendy. I have a couple of picks Digitech gave out as a freebie with a bag for my old pedal that are like heavy Fender Heaveys. I scuffed the grip area up with sandpaper. I've only got 4 of them, and haven't ever found anything quite like them since (not an issue, since there are only a few songs I play with a pick on Bass). Back in HS, I also played in orchestra in addition to Jazz band, my senior year, both orchestra pieces for the Christmas concert were "pluck" songs, so the director told me I could use my electric for them IF I used a felt pick. What a stinkin' mess those things were! Had to vacuum my bass when I got home after practice. I've seen those pick presses to make them yourself out of anything the press can cut. One guy on Chicago Craigslist swears old '45's make the perfect pick for him (and tries to sell them for ridiculous prices). I've tried various tools after reading about Tom Morello using an Allen wrench (a jewelers screwdriver can generate some spiky pinch harmonics). I suppose a micro SD would be the jazz version of your experiment  . greekdude, I didn't even need to play the video, I knew what it was going to be . newey, I've seen those, the attack angle reminds me of banjo picks (the wrap around finger ones). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 6:49:58 GMT -5
The company i bought the super-vee bladerunner gave as a gift a V-Pick, which is supposed to be anti-slip : v-picks.com/went back to the ones i had tho. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 6:55:19 GMT -5
greekdude, I didn't even need to play the video, I knew what it was going to be . Aha, so you did click the play button right? Anyway, a little old school early 80s shredding, a cream strat with mapple fretboard are always a good thing, no mater what the context  |
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 10, 2013 7:45:18 GMT -5
As for Beck, if he hadn't have dropped a car on his hand, who knows he might still be playing with one. His picking style is quate astonishing and worth checkingout more recent material as he has moved on quite a bit in technique and composition like no other. Mark Knophler too has a great 'fingerstyle' sound and phrasing. I've not seen these 'pick threads' and forums of that ilk, I can imagine though, but really I do wonder, why is there so few playing forums and so many 'gear' things about. Probably a 'guy thing', one can't help but notice the lack of feminity in the guitar world, no? Lots of more interesting topics in there, IMHO. I didn't say I hadn't heard any of Jeff's newer stuff, just hasn't grabbed me enough to purchase it. After all this time I'm still a 3 min 30 second power pop song guy, I've listened to everything, but catchy lyrics and a great guitar hook is still what moves me. Everyone talks (now) about how The Clash was so important because they stood for something and were socially conscious. But it was Mick Jones gritty/jangly guitars and Joe Strummers fierce larengytic vocals that attracted everyone in the first place. Turns out Joe was the most socially conscious as Mick and Paul are now touring as Gorillaz, for them... It was about playing. The Clash got me playing, so did Elvis Costello, The Cars, The B-52's, and Joe Jackson. I don't aspire to be a Beck, Page, Clapton, or Yngwie... I aspire to play stuff I like to listen to (and occasionally write some as well). Nowadays bands like The Black Keys, The Kills, and even Green day are what pushes me to even want to play new music. Yes it's simple and mostly easy to play, but that's what moves me TO play. As per our learning/gifted thread, you have to go with your level of skill. I'm NEVER going to be a Mark Knoffler, nor do I wish to try. Funny thing on women and guitars: I recall hearing interviews with Chrissie Hynde and Joan Jett, both of them play down gear (both locked down in their stage setup for years). |
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Post by sumgai on Jul 10, 2013 12:10:01 GMT -5
This oughtta put paid to the notion that picks are the only way to.... doublepick.
And for extra points, it also kills the notion that women don't partake of the nectar - they just seem to naturally avoid drinking the Kool-Aid, and go for the good stuff.
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Post by 4real on Jul 10, 2013 14:28:10 GMT -5
Aha, so you did click the play button right? Anyway, a little old school early 80s shredding, a cream strat with mapple fretboard are always a good thing, no mater what the context A couple of seconds is all it takes really... Reality check, he took all that schtik from paganini...who needed no pick either ;-)... And the sound is like a bee in a jar...I doubt very much one can hear if it is a maple 'board or cream paint in that tone... ... Seriously though, falmenco guitar players routinely paly fast and can strum faster without the pick... but, obviously there are a place for picks, it's not a competition. ... The general lack of women, even if they can tune a guitar without the aid of a 'tuner' or guitar tech, is a thing, is it not. ... The post about 'natural ability', well there is a lot to say there. So what if you cant be Vai, you can still get enjoyment from trying perhaps if that's your thing. Otherwise, one's limitations may well be a part of your 'voice'. I don't think one should be necessarily limited in ambition. I love people like Elvis Costello and the clash and such, but really, there's little compositionally 'simple' in much of costello's material and the 'clash' were musically inovative in their time, as opposed to more modern groups that sound like knock offs to a very large degree..I was a teen while allthat stuff was coming out. Bands like the Police too, broke through with new sounds and musicianship while maintaining pop sensibilities and 'street cred' at the time. What ahppened to innovation. Even 'shred' was new at first, but all that bee in a jam jar tone and running around the harmonic minor scale and so sounding vaguely 'classical-esque' got a bit much, fast! But hey, if that's one's thing, why not...it's only 30 years old or more. I think a player like jeff beck has kept inovating and gotten better and a lot older than me at 51 and with more hair! I've heard some nice players in the electric field, but seems it has been stagnating for a while. All the innovation in guitar music and instruments seem to be in the new wave of acoustic players, or so it seems. I've been quite taken with Erik mongrain lately...for both his technique and compositional sensibilites... The thing with a pic is, you are kind of limiting the instrument to a 'block chord' or single line instruemnt, but the guitar can be more than that. If one is not in a band or aspiring to be, well...that kind of limits things a bit and while there are lots of avenues these days, backing tracks and recording and such, it's not the same really. Learning the music of others, well that will only take one so far, where is the individauls 'voice' and contribution, a lot of people that can play well, sound like typewrters you know...nothing much to say. The guitar should and could be a powerful tool personally and socially too. The guys like costello and the clash and al that, did have things to say and get a message across, not just lyrically, but in the sound and attitude. What are people doing these days, reminissing about a time before they were born, reliving their youth...where is the 'contribution' if that makes sense? Not that there is anything wrong with it but it does, like the saturation advertising everywhere and gear fetishing, seem to be due to an absence not of ability but to do something with it...a few thoughts... Actual pick brands...what ever works in your hands to get what you want out of the thing... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 4:11:49 GMT -5
A couple of seconds is all it takes really... Reality check, he took all that schtik from paganini...who needed no pick either ;-)... man, the function of the violin bow is what inspired yngwie to develop his arpeggio technique, a technique, which looked so "out of this world" in 1983, but it is almost a commodity thing among young guitarists today, so think of the violin bow as an ultra-pick with enhanced function... Now you wouldn't expect Alexandr Markov to play the 5th Caprice by his bare fingers. And the sound is like a bee in a jar...I doubt very much one can hear if it is a maple 'board or cream paint in that tone... cream paint maybe not, but the trained ear can hear the distinct beautiful strat maple fretboard there. |
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Post by newey on Jul 11, 2013 6:32:31 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm not buying that feldergarb and/or snake oil . . .  Presumably, the "trained ear" you refer to is your own ear, since you can't say what someone else may be hearing. But, given the minimal contribution to the overall sound that fretboard material could possibly make in an electrified setting, I'm entitled to call "Baloney" unless this can be shown in a double blind test. In other words, we get Malmsteen to play two cuts of several of his pieces, first on a Strat with a maple fingerboard and next on a Strat with a rosewood (or whatever wood) board. We record these cuts in the same room, same amp, same strings, same recording gear, etc., such that the only independent variable is the fingerboard. Then, we give you headphones and have the tracks played back to you, by someone who doesn't know which tracks are which (that's the "double blind" part). We do this over a number of trials so as to eliminate the possibility of lucky guesses. Do you honestly believe that you would be able to reliably distinguish (let's say that anything less than like 80% correct isn't "reliable") which fingerboard is which, given those conditions? If so, you're deluding yourself.
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Post by 4real on Jul 11, 2013 7:07:32 GMT -5
A couple of seconds is all it takes really... Reality check, he took all that schtik from paganini...who needed no pick either ;-)... man, the function of the violin bow is what inspired yngwie to develop his arpeggio technique, a technique, which looked so "out of this world" in 1983, but it is almost a commodity thing among young guitarists today, so think of the violin bow as an ultra-pick with enhanced function... Now you wouldn't expect Alexandr Markov to play the 5th Caprice by his bare fingers. And the sound is like a bee in a jar...I doubt very much one can hear if it is a maple 'board or cream paint in that tone... cream paint maybe not, but the trained ear can hear the distinct beautiful strat maple fretboard there. Umm...the fretbard is hardly there, given the scoping anyway, one might be able to hear some of that effect... As for arpeggios, sweep picking and all of that...Jazz players and such were doing all that and more for a long time I think you'll find...everything old is new again... A lot of things were 'new' in 'shred' to an audience not familiar to what came before.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 8:05:52 GMT -5
^^^ and even "pre-shred" jazz/fusion/blues/etc music was based on melodies found in ethno-world music, which is like kind of eternal and does not belong to anyone. Lots of people played tapping before EVH and lots of people played arpeggios before YJM. But, EVH sort of "standardized" tapping, by perfecting this particular technique and making a new school of his own. This in 1977. 4-5 years later YJM did the same with arpeggios, ultra strong vibrato, and left hand fast licks, and also created a school around this and drove this to perfection. YJM wrote some fantastic melodies as well, while in Alcatraz. YJM using much more vintage gear than EVH (the anemic HS-3 for a start), chose the hard way. He had to have stronger hands to make some music out of his strat, as compared to EVH with his humbuckers, phasers, effects, etc. Steve Vai later, taking the position of YJM in Alcatrazz, tried to imitate both EVH (tapping, tremolo usage, fancy effects, etc..) and YJM (speed, precision, etc), but IMO never wrote any beautiful song (like the many in the "No parole from rock'n'roll"). Why you keep in so high regard EVH and Steve Vai, but not YJM is a mystery (at least for me). Also a mystery, is that, although YJM used to use *MUCH* simpler effects, and have MUCH cleaner sound (almost non-distorted i'd say) than either EVH, or Steve Vai, you keep sticking the "shred" tag (which i suppose must be some new way of implicit demonization) to YJM and not to the other, whom you love to cite more than often. Is it because e.g. EVH was supposed to be more "jazzy"? wild guessing here. Anyways, i respect both EVH and YJM, but not many of their imitators.
Cool latin/italian guitarist you showed there.
Here is a retro shreder folk guitarist, contemprorary to the italian guy, from neighboring old yugoslavia :
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 11, 2013 8:05:54 GMT -5
I'm with newey, with a scalloped fretboard, the tone of said fretboard is nil. If you scalloped a rosewood strat fretboard, you'd be down (or almost down) in the middle of the space to the maple underneath anyways, I doubt anyone could tell the difference. I thought the whole point of scalloping was for the string to not contact the wood (except in micro bends).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 9:08:00 GMT -5
I thought the whole point of scalloping was for the string to not contact the wood (except in micro bends). Maybe, technically yes. But the scalloping affects the sound as well. The fretboard having more "cavity"-like surfaces, sounds a lot more loud. I dont know how to explain that, but at least to my ears, it sounds like "soundhole" of some sort. Gives some hollowness. Now according to newy's theory, in the electrical setup, all those parameters dont play any role. I was of course joking to 4real, with the trained ear comment, i am puzzled why newey fell into it, literally. Maybe newey's theory is correct. But again, this is the magic of the last unexplored unpredicted and non-deterministic frontier of last century! |
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Post by 4real on Jul 11, 2013 9:30:20 GMT -5
^^^ and even "pre-shred" jazz/fusion/blues/etc music was based on melodies found in ethno-world music, which is like kind of eternal and does not belong to anyone. Lots of people played tapping before EVH and lots of people played arpeggios before YJM. But, EVH sort of "standardized" tapping, by perfecting this particular technique and making a new school of his own. This in 1977. 4-5 years later YJM did the same with arpeggios, ultra strong vibrato, and left hand fast licks, and also created a school around this and drove this to perfection. YJM wrote some fantastic melodies as well, while in Alcatraz. YJM using much more vintage gear than EVH (the anemic HS-3 for a start), chose the hard way. He had to have stronger hands to make some music out of his strat, as compared to EVH with his humbuckers, phasers, effects, etc. Steve Vai later, taking the position of YJM in Alcatrazz, tried to imitate both EVH (tapping, tremolo usage, fancy effects, etc..) and YJM (speed, precision, etc), but IMO never wrote any beautiful song (like the many in the "No parole from rock'n'roll"). Why you keep in so high regard EVH and Steve Vai, but not YJM is a mystery (at least for me). Also a mystery, is that, although YJM used to use *MUCH* simpler effects, and have MUCH cleaner sound (almost non-distorted i'd say) than either EVH, or Steve Vai, you keep sticking the "shred" tag (which i suppose must be some new way of implicit demonization) to YJM and not to the other, whom you love to cite more than often. Is it because e.g. EVH was supposed to be more "jazzy"? wild guessing here. Anyways, i respect both EVH and YJM, but not many of their imitators. Cool latin/italian guitarist you showed there. Here is a retro shreder folk guitarist, contemprorary to the italian guy, from neighboring old yugoslavia : Hey...you make a wall of assumptions don't you. What makes you think I don't have respect for and knowledge of this 'history' with YJM? I have his instructional vid since the old days (one of the funniest vids of the era I ahve to say) all are great players at what they do/did. But compared to the much bigger picture of the 80's guitar shredder, really? And the ethno-world music, well the world has produced many 'greats' over the millenia. Now, if you are just assuming what "I" prefer, well that's a value judgement for which I am free to make. I can have an appreciation for and even a fondness for the music of my youth, it did not start nor end there, why should it? I can appreciate that music presented there, but really it does not 'move me' and objectively sounds like it is what it is, a whole string of 32nd notes, a lot of repeated notes and repeated phrases banged out without dynamics and purely speed. I can see how that inscesent sound might have an effect on some, but the effect on me is to annoying "to my ear" and lacks depth in harmony and melody variety and dynamics and all the things I might appreciate in music, for my own listening pleasure. It sounded in short, a bit like typing at speed with some pitch aspects to be honest. But, that's what I like. Perhaps if I were doing the Zorba dance and ended with a plate breaking fest, but I'm not. (though, there is a new greek resteraunt opening soon, so perhaps I will). And, it's not completely for a lack of familiarity either. I ahve studied ethnomusicology, the 80's shreders, not one, figured in the mass of great music from all over. I think though perhaps you subscribe a little much to these aspects than is warranted in your enthusiasim, but that is my opinion of course and entitled to it. The things you ascribe to me, is your opinion of me and not so entitled to make, IMHO but also by common sense and courtesy. Yep, wildly guessing. By the sounds of it, your musical knowledge is restricted to a very tiny short lived time of excess in the 80's shredder thing. A term you use yourself if I am not mistaken, but common enough for the genre for which Vai, Satch, EVH, YJM and the rest all fall into through their own admission. Personally, I like a bit of variety in dynamics and colour and yes, even 'swing' in terms of phrasing that is not just an element of jazz but also classical and most 'ethno-world' music as you call it (but far too big a catagory to be useful). I also come froma tradition that has quite a deep harmonic sensibility, musically that is. Personally, my playing started off with the blues, particularly the blues from the british bands but went back from there to explore their influences. Again, a premium placed of phrasing and playing with time, dynamics and all that. It was never really about 'speed' or 'technique' but of expression you know. Of course, by the eighties, myself playing in a rock band, and having been with the guitar a long time, I kept up with the trends and admired the interesting things that came out of it, sure, why not. What I admire most is a player that brings his own 'sound' or 'voice' to the instrument. A lot of the YJM thing, the whole neo-classical sctick was like hearing the originals played fast without dynamics and tone and the finesses that highly trained classical players dispaly regularly. At that stage, in music school and later university (1983-1987) I was exposed to all manner of music from all eras and so can hear and appreciate things. I can see beyond the 'spandex pants and eyeshadow' and hear what is going on. There is nothing wrong with YJM, he is quite the entertainer, and it is not just the music and such of paganini that is the influence there at all, paganini went even further, at times lowering himself upside down over the stage to play those caprices. But, for my own enjoyment of music, I ask myself, what is this music saying to me, what is it in this music that strikes an accord with my inner sensibilities. Is it the Massive ego of YJM, the hyperness and desperation to impress and pummel me with endless strings of arpeggios at hyper-speed at a constant dynamic (loud) and tone (distorted bee in a jar) and overly wide vibrato with the harmonic minor scale that screams 'classical' but is nothing of the sort? Is it innovative and new...well, no it is hundreds of years old stuff, played with a worse tone. Are arpeggios new, no, a standard part of musical vocabulary everywhere. But these are judgements I can make, for myself, to my snsibilities. It is not ofr others to make of me. Similarly, I can compare this to other things and make some judgement too, I ahve afterall, had some training and exposed quite likely, to a far broader sample than an obscure 80's guitar music genre. What you may like, well perhaps it touches you, but I'd only be able to assume how or why. I'm not in the business of wildly guessing nor ascribing to others, though it at times makes me wonder. Can you explain it? Everything to you would appear to be a competition, not open to appreciation that others have different experience or desires or understanding or desires. And, yes, I do and did find the whole 'shred' era a bit of an anachronisim. I mean, all that spandex and make up and excess of the eighties, it did not 'touch me' the way it has you. Nor do I choose to stand still in my playing or taste in music. Who is making music contemporary that is moving me or making me listen or appreciate. As I say, not hearing it with many electric players for quite some time. I didn't really get a lot out of the eighties stuff either to be honest, though it seemed 'new' at the time, it faded very fast. But, perhaps that music just was not meant for me. I've tried hard to get a handle on these things, down here the whole metal thing never really was a big thing as it has been elsewhere anyway, probably too hot to be wearing spandex anyway. It might be of a certain era or perhaps culture that I am not a part of nor want to be, lyrically there seems to be little that I can associate with. When I was working in the factory, sure a bit of AC-DC is just right for the rhythm of the work, but I dont do that now nor wanted to be then outside of work so much. There are a few bits of the 80's shred thing that I still admire, Satriani had some very cool phrasing and EVH was able to pull off some nice 'atonal' things that were neat for instance. And I did take quite a bit from that kind of thing, to see things like 'speed' as more of a gesture than the actual notes that are being played for instance. You see the same thing in Coltranes 'sheets of sound' approach of the late 40's (giant steps, etc). Even Erik Mongrain, wh is in his early 30's, took the music of Metalica as the jumping off point to what he is doing these days. Jeff Beck has kept moving and developing musically compared to his contempories (page, clapton, etc). YJM, to me, from what I've heard., has not. That is not to say hes not an exceptional talent and entertainer, his blues stuff can be cool at times for the excess, but not something I ahve a 'use' for in my life. Perhaps you do?! So no, there is no demonisation in the word 'shred'...I didn't come up with that word and the artists mentioned all adopted and defined that tiny era of guitar in the 80's. But it is a new millenia and one might have hoped for something even more, and to me in the electric gutiar, at best it is largely more of the same. What 'shred' did, was set the stage for the opposite, grunge perhaps. But then, in my formulative years, in teh late 70's you'd think nothing of hearing Knophler next to Punk and all manner of other music on hte radio and be able to be appreciated by anyone and everyone. It was not like now with music lovers walled in by their chosen genre and music useed to define who they are or could be. Plus...on the women thing. It is not even just the musicians for which there is a musical divide. Typically women are not even in the audiences, except where they are accompanying an obsessed partner, or so it seems. That gender divide seems overly stark. Now, if the music is intrinsically 'good' or 'appealing' I would not expect such a strong division. If the guitar world were more welcoming and less 'combative' perhaps there would even be more participation. As it happens, in more recent times particularly, the only people who hear me actually play are women...from teaching last year to my present GF from Peru. We all desire a positive feedback loop in our activities like palying music and none of these people are going to be particularly moved by me ripping up and down the harmonic minor scale...plus I've broken 50 now and don't have the desire to. Music and the guitar is a huge part of my life, for it to be accepted and supported, it does require that it be seen to be at least worthy, more than a condescending 'that's nice dear'...know what I mean. But that explains something of me, not at all what you assume or wildly guess from what little to nothing you actually know of me GD...what can I say, you seem to be traped not just in time musically, nothing wrong with a bit of 30 year old nostalgia, but there is a bit of an obligation to also grow in the intervening time as well. Your assumptions and your attitudes do not seem to reflect that, IMHO. |
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 11, 2013 9:37:46 GMT -5
See... This is why we talk mostly gear...
Dropping out now...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:05:24 GMT -5
See... This is why we talk mostly gear... Dropping out now... +1 I followed SG's advice. I STFU, and now I am feeling much better. Some times fighting the evil inside, is much more valuable than fighting the evil outside. |
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Post by 4real on Jul 11, 2013 15:04:35 GMT -5
You have "evil" inside? Generally people leave 'evil' at the door here...but there you go...
Have some beck...Still innovating at over 60, even with the music from the past...and a noted supporter of female musicians...(and a decent clip of his unusal 'fingerpicking technique' and unique trem arm action)
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Post by lunaalta on Jul 12, 2013 8:49:45 GMT -5
A bit late in the game, I know, but I just have to comment. I don't know how much, if any, a fingerboard affects the tonal character of a guitar. However, since the string vibration is happening on the bridge side of the fret, I doubt that the nut side, with finger to dampen, offers much, in the way of tone or sustain, with or without scalloping. But, since the fret is fitted, tightly, to the fingerboard, much of the vibrational energy in the string will likely be transferred through the fret directly to the fingerboard, as it is through the bridge to the body. I'm betting on sustain being affected by a circle of energy, from the string, through the bridge to the body, through to the neck and back to the string, via the fingerboard and fret. All this happening in the opposite direction, at the same time. If this can occur, without losses (due to inferior mechanical connections along the way) and without too much interference from phase anomalies due to the dual direction of energy transfer, then a reasonable sustain might be expected. But, then again, if the circuit, as described above, is mechanically tuned wrongly, you may get a situation in which the energy is self canceling. This might result in minimum sustain. I recently, well a couple of years ago, had the neck changed on my 73 strat. From one piece maple to maple/rosewood, and yes, there was a big difference in the tone (a not unpleasant warming of the tone). Other things may have influenced this, the old neck is pretty worn and the new neck has 4 instead of 3 bolts. So, who knows if the wood had any effect in the tonal change? I tend to think it did, but that's just a feeling. This is all guess work on my part, by the way, so please don't shoot me down, if there is a flaw in my thinking.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 10:02:36 GMT -5
I'm betting on sustain being affected by a circle of energy, from the string, through the bridge to the body, through to the neck and back to the string, via the fingerboard and fret. All this happening in the opposite direction, at the same time. If this can occur, without losses (due to inferior mechanical connections along the way) and without too much interference from phase anomalies due to the dual direction of energy transfer, then a reasonable sustain might be expected. But, then again, if the circuit, as described above, is mechanically tuned wrongly, you may get a situation in which the energy is self canceling. This might result in minimum sustain. That's what i think as well. There is a good reason most tuners attach to the headstock of the guitar. Lots of string energy transferred there. Also most dead spots (minimal sustain) occur exactly at the center of the fretboard length-wise (12th fret) and center height-wise (G string). Which could be explained as the point where opposite mechanical frequencies self-canceling each other. I have never witnessed a guitar that sustains more in 12th fret than 11th or 13th. But that is a long shot here. I managed to increase sustain on 12th fret G, by pressing the fretboard firmly towards the wall, or attaching a set of wrenches with tape to the back of the headstock. Now i am gonna go and put some Gotoh tuners in there, and see if that makes any difference. An excuse for more modz  |
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Post by lunaalta on Jul 12, 2013 12:49:08 GMT -5
Yeah, right! As if you needed an excuse, GD......LOL. Maybe, the shorter length of string free to vibrate, at the 12th, inhibits the amount/length of possible sustaining of the vibration. A longer length string, has room for more, or more complex harmonics. Maybe¿ |
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