Out of phase with a RWRP Pickup

[johan]

I have a simple question:

On a modern strat with a reverse wound reverse polarity middle pickup, isn't the combination 'neck and middle out of phase' really an in-phase position?

And hence not hum-cancelling?

Is there a real difference between putting pickup of phase and the RWRP?

[wolf]

johan
That is why I don't like fooling around with any phasing involving the middle pickup.
The neck pickup OR the bridge pickup out of phase with the middle pickup will not be hum cancelling.
Also, (and John Atchley agrees with this) the closer the pickup distance the greater the sound cancellations will be. So, you will get a very thin, out of phase sound that is not hum cancelling.
Neck and bridge out of phase (if neither are RWRP) will have that squawky, inside out kind of sound and will be humbucking.
And if you are wondering who John Atchley is, he runs the original guitar nuts site:

and here are his thoughts about phasing

[UnklMickey]

nothing wolf said was wrong.

but i'd like to respond, using the context of your last question.

johan said:

...Is there a real difference between putting pickup of phase and the RWRP?

a rwrp is, in relation to the string movement, a "double reverse".

since the magnet is reverse polarity AND the coil is wound in reverse, the signal that the string creates is in the same polarity as a "normal" pickup.

this is because the string is being magnetized in the opposite polarity, AND the coil is wound backward.

the external a.c. magnetic field (HUM), on the other hand, is the same regardless of the orientation of the magnet. so the hum output is in reverse polarity.
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so, YES, there IS a real difference between a normal pickup out-of-phase, and a rwrp. you severely reduce the hum in both cases. but with a rwrp the signal generated by the string is nearly in phase with the other pickups. so its signal mostly adds to the signal from the other pups.
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i say nearly in phase, because the pickups are in different locations along the length of the string. so as the wave travels along the string, the crest of the wave passes the pickups at somewhat different times. -- but thats another story altogether. (i wonder if doug c. will go into "airplane mode" on the last part of that statement.)

[johan]

That's very clear. So it's not really out of phase, but still hum cancelling.

So I guess it's really because mid pickup is too close to both neck and bridge pu's to make a real difference. I remember John Atchley -- I know who he is, got to this forum thru his site-- said that out of phase effect is proportional to the space between the pickups involved.

That' Bermuda mod' got me thinking. Thanks for clarifying this.