TV Jones TV Classics, Analysis, Review and Shootout

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www.tvjones.com/tv-classic-pickups.html




Along with the Gretsch Filter'tron and the Fender Filter'tron, the TV Classics are probably the most common Filter'tron/Filter'tron style pickups floating around, so with this set measured, I can now compare all three of them directly.  


TV Jones TV Classic Bridge
Series resistance: 4.95k ohms
Series inductance: 2.101H
Gauss: 350 / 350

Unloaded: dV: 1.3dB f: 9.59kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 0.7dB f: 4.36kHz (red)


TV Jones TV Classic Neck
Series resistance: 4.06k ohms
Series inductance: 1.503H
Gauss: 350 / 350

Unloaded: dV: -0.5dB f: 12.3kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 0.1dB f: 5.30kHz (gray)


Bode plot:







Comparisons to common alternatives

The Fender Filter'tron comes stock in Cabronitas and a couple other Fenders that feature Filter'tron style pickups, so a common question is  "should I replace them?" and "what to replace them with?" and the answer is usually "Yes", and "TV Classics", so here is a side-by-side of specs  



TV Jones TV Classic Bridge
Series resistance: 4.95k ohms
Series inductance: 2.101H
Gauss: 350 / 350

Unloaded:              dV: 1.3dB f: 9.59kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 0.7dB f: 4.36kHz (red)

TV Jones TV Classic Neck
Series resistance: 4.06k ohms
Series inductance: 1.503H
Gauss: 350 / 350

Unloaded:              dV: -0.5dB f: 12.3kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 0.1dB f: 5.30kHz (gray)

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Gretsch Filter'tron Bridge - 006-2876-100
Series resistance: 4.97k ohms
Series inductance: 2.298H
Gauss: 250 / 300

Unloaded:              dV: -1.4dB f: 9.81kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: -1.7dB f: 4.46kHz (red)

Gretsch Filter'tron Neck - 006-2880-100
Series resistance: 4.18k ohms
Series inductance: 1.7403H
Gauss: 250 / 300

Unloaded:              dV: -1.9dB f: 11.2kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: -1.9dB f: 5.42kHz (gray)

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Fender Fideli'tron Bridge (BHK)
Series resistance: 5.11k ohms
Series inductance: 2.733H
Gauss: 250 / 300

Unloaded: dV: 0.0dB f: 10.6kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: -0.7dB f: 3.39kHz (red)

Fender Fideli'tron Neck (BHK)
Series resistance: 4.45k ohms
Series inductance: 2.136H
Gauss: 260 / 310

Unloaded:              dV: -1.5dB f: 12.8kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: -1.3dB f: 4.73kHz (gray)



Looking at the DC resistance  and the inductance together, the most obvious difference between the three is that the Fender Fideli'tron is hotter than either the Filter'tron or TV Classic, which are very close to one another.  The Fideli'tron's bridge reads 2.7H to the Filter's 2.3H and the TV's 2.1H, and the Fideli'tron's neck at 2.1H versus the 1.5H for the TV and 1.7 for the Filter'. 

The loaded  resonant peaks tell the same story, and confirm that all these pickups are very much alike in terms of capacitance effects. The Fender Fideli'tron has a "hotter" bridge/neck loaded peak of 3.4kHz / 4.7kHz, compared to the Filters' 4.7kHz / 5.4kHz, and the TV's 4.4kHz / 5.3kHz.  I say "hotter" because these resonant peaks are still plenty bright. A typical PAF has a resonant peak below 3kHz for both the neck and bridge. A Seth Lover set for example, has loaded peaks of 2.5kHz and 2.8kHz. 

A financially expedient take away from this is that if you buy a Filter'tron neck and use it as a bridge, you'll more or less have a TV Classic or FIlter'tron bridge.


Bode Plot Comparison 


TV Jones TV Classic 


Gretsch Filter'tron


Fender Fideli'tron


The most interesting observation here is that the TV Jones TV Classic shows substantially fewer eddy losses than the Fender Fideli'tron or the Gretsch Filter'tron.  The Gretsch shows the most eddy losses. If the plot has a steeper downward curve ahead of the resonant peak, it means the eddy losses are greater, and that takes a bite out of the high end response. 

There's a lot of anecdotal claims about the TV Classics being "clear" or "articulate" relative to other pickups on the market, and I think that is consistent with what is seen in these plots. 

As for the reason the eddy losses are fewer with the TV Classic, I have a bunch of pics below from which you can see how their construction varies, or doesn't. All the pics below are of bridge pickups, which in the case of the Fideli'tron and TV Classics just means there is a spacer bar below the magnet, lowering the base down quite a bit, while the Grestch Filter'tron neck and bridge both have the AlNiCo 5 bar laying directly down upon the metal base plate. That could be the reason, or it might be the screws. I would have suspected the side walls, but as you can see, the Grestch Filter'tron has the shortest side wall of any of them.



Pics:

Shown below are all bridge pickups. I didn't crack open the neck pickups in order the limit the waxy mess. It is also a little more difficult to re-mount these types over overs, you have to manually line them up with the screws and clamp them well. PAF covers are much easier to replace by comparison.



The Fideli'tron and the TV Classic also have wider pole spacing for the bridge pickups, where as the Filter'tron does not, both pickups have the same spacing. In the case of the Fideli'tron, the difference is very slight, perhaps 2mm difference in overall width. The TV Classic is more notciable, with about a 5mm overall difference between the neck and bridge pole piece spacing.



The TV Classic has wood spacers while the Fideli'tron and Filter'tron have plastic spacers. The Fideli'tron and Filter'tron also have rather large, round fillister screw heads, while the TV Classic has more low profile screw heads. The TV Classics have a larger diameter screw also, which probably explains why they show the highest Gauss readings at the screw heads. The TV Classic is also the only set to not have it's screws sticking way out of the bottom of the pickup.



TV Jones TV Classic, Gretsch Filter'tron (recent make), Fender Fideli'tron BHK


TV Jones TV Classic, Gretsch Filter'tron (recent make), Fender Fideli'tron BHK


TV Jones TV Classic, Gretsch Filter'tron (recent make), Fender Fideli'tron BHK


TV Jones TV Classic, Gretsch Filter'tron (recent make), Fender Fideli'tron BHK

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Stratotarts had previously determined that the screws are primarily to blame for the steep eddy losses, so I did a quick measurement in order to contrast in the context of these plots, loaded and unloaded, with and without screws:



The shorter peaks are "with screws", the lower frequency peaks are the "loaded" peaks, and the two peaks that rise high above the lower two are the "without screws" plots. The fact that the "dips" disappear shows that the screws are responsible for the eddy losses, and the 2kHz difference in the loaded peak, and the 3kHz difference in the unloaded peaks show that the screws also provide a substantial boost in inductance. 

It seems reasonable to conclude that the shorter size of the TV Jones screws might be a factor in their milder eddy losses:



It could also be that they use a more resistive steel. Without sawing the screws of the Filter'tron short, it's hard to know which is the precise cause. My money would be on the shorter length.  It's clear to see, though, that both types cause substantial losses, any way you cut it.

Here's what the test setup looks like:

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On the Gretsch forum, someone asked how these compare to Gretsch Blacktop Filter'trons. I haven't seen one in person, but we know they use the same screws, so the eddy losses will be substantial. The only remaining question AFAIK is how much difference in the flux density at the screw tops due to the smaller 1/8 "PAF sized" AlNiCo 5 bar, that they feature so I measured the flux with the 1/4 bar that comes stock with the Gretsch Filter'tron, the flux density reads around 275 Gauss. Then I slid a 1/8 AlNiCo 5 in, and used a shim to seat it, and measured the Gauss again, and it read around 190 Gauss with the 1/8 bar, so the 1/4 bar does supply a substantial boost in flux density. Note however that they 30% boost in flux does not mean a 30% boost in power, the boost will be some mount that is a lot smaller than that, because output voltage is based on the degree of flux change, not the absolute amount of flux.



A PAF with an AlNiCo 5 bar reads 220G over the screws, less than a Filter'tron with a 1/4 bar, but more than a Filter'tron with a 1/8th bar. The reason for this is likely because the PAF has a steel retainer bar around the screws and Filter'trons don't.