6-Way Lever Switch Schemes

[newey]

Some of you may have noted the thread I started discussing the Oak-Grigsby 6-Way lever switch. Since Wehave moved on from general discussion to the specifics of schemes to utilize this switch, I started a new thread here in Guitar wiring.

Here's a first shot at a diagram using this switch. It may be wrong and needs vetting- still tough to wrap my head around this thing! ANd, in the final version, I'll probably swap the neck and bridge positions, putting the single coil in the bridge position and the MB at the neck (i.e., just swapping the diagram top for bottom). Also note that, while each half of the MB is its own 4-wire HB, I have shown each half as only 2-wire, it's implicit here that each 2-rail HB is internally in series and are not split, so no reason for showing the extra series junction wires.

Anyway, here's version 1.0:

[newey]

And, recall switch logic from the other thread:

Attachments:

[reTrEaD]

I just took a cursory look at this and I noticed a problem in position 2.
I reckon you'll get . . . nothing.

According to your map for the Pole A (right side), you should only have a connection between C and 2 (right side). That's the + for the MB Top. The - for the MB Top isn't connected.

The + for the MB bottom (lug 1 right and lug 3 right) doesn't connect in the #2 position.

I'll take some time and re-label the lugs on your switch and map, then present it for your evaluation. I think I can make a more logical representation.

Later today or tomorrow.

[reTrEaD]

Newey, what's your opinion of this, for a way to label the lugs?



All the odd numbers are on the right side (Pole A)
All the even numbers are on the left (Pole B)
In any given position, three three throws are in-play
(position -1), (position), (position +1)
I've arranged the 'map' with the same left and right arrangement as the switch

Since each pole and throw has a unique name, describing what lug we're talking about will be direct.
Perhaps this numbering system might be easier to keep track of mentally, during the design process.
idk

[newey]

RT-

Yeah, that's better. I realized in the other thread that the table didn't match right to left with the switch diagram, and that's what led me astray with the wiring as well. Back to the drawing board!

[newey]

OK, here's version 2.0, using RT's revised numbering for the switch logic. This is a little different, and I'm still not sure whether it's what I want. The switch positions aren't particularly logical, but I'm not sure those issues can be solved with this switch. I'm still struggling to wrap my mind around it!

Attachments:

[reTrEaD]

First of all, it does appear to work as-advertised. So at least you can claim a partial success.

Jun 26, 2017 20:23:43 GMT -5 newey said:

I'm still not sure whether it's what I want. The switch positions aren't particularly logical, but I'm not sure those issues can be solved with this switch.

One of the things to keep in mind with this switch is that you're probably going to have a 'wraparound' at one end or the other. In your current example, that occurs at the Bridge end of the switch.

I'll restate your truth table in reverse order so it follows the selection as the lever moves from neck to bridge.

6 - NSC
5 - NSC + MB Bottom
4 - MB Bottom
3 - MB Bottom + MB Top
2 - MB Top (NSC Shunted)
1 - MB Top x NSC (wraparound)

I agree this sequence is less intuitive because we would expect the MB Top selections to occur near the middle of the travel.

---------------------------

By simply exchanging all MB Top and MB bottom connections you could have the following sequence:

6 - NSC
5 - NSC + MB Top (*)
4 - MB Top
3 - MB Top + MB Bottom
2 - MB Bottom (NSC Shunted)
1 - MB Bottom x NSC (wraparound) (*)

(*) indicates a slightly different combination than your original.

This change puts the MB Top selections at the middle of the travel but changes the Series combination to NSC x MB Bottom. It also changes the parallel combination to NSC + MB top. If that works for you, we're done. If not, we might try to attack this in a slightly different manner and attempt to get the original series combination you wanted.

-------------------

Also worth noting, I *suspect* we could get the following sequence rather easily by shifting the function of the A and B sides:

6 - NSC x MB Bottom (wraparound)
5 - NSC
4 - NSC + MB Top
3 - MB Top
2 - MB Top + MB Bottom
1 - MB Bottom (NSC Shunted)

-------------------

So as we continue to explore what might be possible . . .

- Would you prefer the wraparound to occur at the neck end of the switch or keep it as you have, at the bridge end?

- Would the series combination of NSC x MB bottom be acceptable or should we attempt to get NSC x MB Top instead?

[newey]

Thanks for putting your mind to this, RT. I take your point about the "wraparound".

Your first iteration is better than what I had, switch-logic-wise. But the more I think on this, I'm thinking the SC should instead be at the bridge position.

These two pickups are so dissimilar, it may be folly to expect them the "play well together", so to speak. That was one reason I wanted the SC in series with half the MB- I thought parallel combos would likely leave the SC as the weak partner. And also why having "all three" is probably not where I want to go.

Putting the SC at the bridge leaves it available for clean lead work, while the MB at the neck is going to move things into metal-ish territory, or so my current thinking goes. Let me take another shot at this, swapping the positions, and we'll see how that looks.

[plankton]

Hey guys, new member here, glad I found this forum, seems like plenty of helpful and knowledgeable people.

I've returned to playing guitar over the last year after about 25 years off. I'm also getting into guitar electronics and have already rewired and modded my SG.

I just got an inexpensive HSS Strat copy and while the Wilkinson pickups are decent, I want to mess around with the wiring. Being more of a Gibson-style guy, I really like the flexibility that multiple volume controls give. So I'd like my Strat to have a volume and tone that affect the humbucker and another volume for the neck and middle singles (with no tone). I found this schematic online that claims to do that,



Looking at switching options I came across the OG 6 way and thought it might give me some extra options. I looking at the switch diagram above it looks like I could wire it so that: pos 1 = full humbucker, pos 2 = split hb, pos 3 = split hb + middle, pos 4 = middle, pos 5 = middle + neck, pos 6 = neck.

Does this seem correct? Can anyone help me combine these two ideas into a workable schematic? I'd appreciate any help as I am quite new to this stuff.

Thanks

[newey]

Plankton-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

First off, the diagram you posted does as advertised. As for incorporating the 6-way switch, If you read through the above thread, you'll recognize that the internal switching of this beast is very different from a regular 5-way switch. When I first got a hold of one and put the meter on it, I was shocked- not what I expected it to be at all.

So, anyway, I played around a bit with your "wish list" and I can't see how it can be achieved "as is" with the 6-way switch. The issue is the coil-cut HB at positions 2 and 3. I can work out how to do the coil cut HB at positions 2, but trying to have the coil cut HB + the middle at position 3, while maintaining the middle alone at position 4, has me stymied. Alternatively, if I have the coil cut at 2 and 3, then I can't get the full HB at position 1. I either end up with the coil cut at 1, 2 and 3, or I have it at 2, 3 and 4.

Now, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so maybe someone else has a bright idea that I'm missing here.

Also, be aware that the slot for a regular 5-way may need modification for the 6-way switch. In my project, I had to junk the 6-way as it was too deep for the cavity, but in a Strat clone it should be OK depth-wise, it's the length of the lever throw that is the issue.

[sumgai]

plankton,

Let me add to that welcome to our NutzHouse!

First:

Nov 26, 2017 10:33:45 GMT -5 newey said:

First off, the diagram you posted does as advertised.

Well, yes.... with a slight dose of Mr. Murphy.

The common terminal on the pickup-selection pole goes to the N/M Volume pot even in Positions 4 and 5.  In Pos 4, both pickups are selected via the lower half of the switch anyway, so both Volume controls having an effect is expected.  However, in Pos 5, even though the N/M volume control is not connected to the output jack, it is loading the pickup, and thus affecting the tone. As these are 250K pots, all three of them in the circuit at the same time is probably making the Bridge sound darker than you might desire.

Easy to fix: simply remove the Bridge 'hot' wire from the switch, and leave it going only directly to the control(s).  The other half of the switch is wired correctly, and you should then realize your desired setup.  (And you'll stiill have both pups in Pos 4, as well as both Vol controls - can't help that, sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.)

HTH

However, I do have a question for you: You mentioned an "OG six-way switch".  Do you perchance have a link to such a beast?

sumgai

[plankton]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate you guys taking time to think about this for me.

If the 6-way switch won't work then it's no big deal. I was surprised to find that it existed and when I saw the diagram on this thread my mind started to invent things.

I'll most likely run with the above diagram, with sumgai's adjustment, and substitute in a push/pull to get the coil split. I'm not worried about losing the bridge coil split alone as I never really cared for a traditional Strat bridge sound anyway, hence the HSS configuration. I would like the classic two single-coil position 2 sound though.

Sumgai, the switch I was referring to is the Oak Grigsby 6-way lever switch that this thread is based upon. Here's a link to where I first found it,

www.realparts.com.au/electronics/lever-switches/oak-grigsby-6-way-switch.html

Thanks again for the help.

[newey]

and substitute in a push/pull to get the coil split. I'm not worried about losing the bridge coil split alone as I never really cared for a traditional Strat bridge sound anyway, hence the HSS configuration. I would like the classic two single-coil position 2 sound though.

I think you could get by without needing a P/P at all if the Bridge coil cut by itself is not needed. Fender traditionally wires its HSS Strats for the bridge HB to be coil-cut at position 2 (i.e., when combined in parallel with the middle).

If you consult any Fender factory wiring diagram for a HSS Strat (at least, any one that doesn't use an S-1 switch), you will see how Fender uses the second pole of the 5-way switch to cut the HB at position 2.

However, your current scheme uses the second pole of the 5-way to switch Vol and Tone pots, so we'd have to rewire the pots to free up the second half of the switch. That can potentially be done as well.

[sumgai]

plankton,

'Sfunny, but ElectroSwitch (nee Oak-Grisby) refuses to provide any details about that switch, beyond the standard mounting dimension data.  Lacking any diagrams or a truth table of any sort, my first question would be, why would 6 positions need 4 terminals, all of them make-before-break?   If the 7th position is physically unobtainable, then at one end-of-travel or the other, there's going to be a combination of two pickups (or a duplicate of some kind).  I find that rather useless, but then again, today my imagination is not ticking along at nearly full capacity.  More drugs, doctor, more drugs!

In any event, thanks for the link, I'm sure others will be interested.

sumgai

[newey]

sg-

I have the switch in hand, and RT and I had a long discussion of the switch logic in the "coffee Shop" a while back. My diagram in the posts above has a truth table with the switch logic. It is most decidedly not just an extra "make before break" connection.

The switch is sold as a way to get N + B, plus all the regular Strat options, on one lever.

[sumgai]

newey,

I can see how the switch gets N+B, and if that's all the MarketingSpeak promises, then yes, it's a good additional to the arsenal.  But for advanced cases of Nutzness, let's just say that the jury is still out.

sumgai

[plankton]

Nov 26, 2017 15:46:27 GMT -5 newey said:

and substitute in a push/pull to get the coil split. I'm not worried about losing the bridge coil split alone as I never really cared for a traditional Strat bridge sound anyway, hence the HSS configuration. I would like the classic two single-coil position 2 sound though.

I think you could get by without needing a P/P at all if the Bridge coil cut by itself is not needed. Fender traditionally wires its HSS Strats for the bridge HB to be coil-cut at position 2 (i.e., when combined in parallel with the middle).

If you consult any Fender factory wiring diagram for a HSS Strat (at least, any one that doesn't use an S-1 switch), you will see how Fender uses the second pole of the 5-way switch to cut the HB at position 2.

However, your current scheme uses the second pole of the 5-way to switch Vol and Tone pots, so we'd have to rewire the pots to free up the second half of the switch. That can potentially be done as well.

I am aware of the "auto split" wiring, but it seemed that with the two volume scheme it wouldn't be possible for the reason you mentioned. If you think you can sort it out that would be amazing.

So ideally, with a 5-way switch I'd like to have, 1-HB, 2-split HB+middle, 3-middle, 4-middle+neck, 5-neck. Then 500k volume and tone pots that affect the HB and a separate 250k volume for the neck and middle.