Singlecoil "output" measurement

[holm]

Hi



I'm new to this group.



Just finished a partcaster, but I'm not happy with the pickups, which is a medium priced set, meant to be "Hendrix like". I like the tone of them, but it's like they lack output (not as in being a hot pickup) or volume, at least compared to my Fender American Vintage ’65 pickup set.



I did the installation myself, and I wonder if I could have damaged the volume pot? Would a measurement before and after the volume pot reveal that? and what would I be measuring - voltage, resistance...?



In advance thanks

Erik

[antigua]

Feb 13, 2018 11:23:36 GMT -5 holm said:

Hi



I'm new to this group.



Just finished a partcaster, but I'm not happy with the pickups, which is a medium priced set, meant to be "Hendrix like". I like the tone of them, but it's like they lack output (not as in being a hot pickup) or volume, at least compared to my Fender American Vintage ’65 pickup set.



I did the installation myself, and I wonder if I could have damaged the volume pot? Would a measurement before and after the volume pot reveal that? and what would I be measuring - voltage, resistance...?



In advance thanks

Erik

They should be similar in output to the '65 set. What medium priced "Hendrix" set did you get? What DC resistance measurements do you get from them?

One easy thing to check is the pole piece magnetic strength. Take a paper clip or something and see if it attracts as strongly to the new pickup set as the '65. It's not likely that they are under charged, but it's one of the easier things to check. 

In order to rule out fried / dirty / defective pots, you'd have to wire the pickups directly to the output jack, preferably with alligator clips to save from temporary soldering, and see if the output is just as weak when the tone and volume controls have been bypassed. 

Another possibility, which is more of a controversial thing, is the quality of the guitar strings. I could have swore a $150 Chinese guitar I bought became a lot louder, output wise, when I replaced the stock strings it came with, with typical domestically sourced strings. The controversial part is that according to member "ms", and a research paper written by Kirk McDonald, the permeability of the guitar strings doesn't matter so long as it's not extremely low, and odds, are that the permeability was not extremely low. So it might have been an observational error on my part, but I'm not 100% convinced one way or the other yet. 

[reTrEaD]

Feb 13, 2018 11:23:36 GMT -5 holm said:

I'm new to this group.

Hello Erik, and to GuitarNuts2!

I see you've made two identical threads. You should avoid doing that in the future. I realize it can be a bit intimidating, trying to figure out where a thread belongs on an unfamiliar forum. But no worries, just take your best guess and just make one thread.

If it's misplaced, a moderator will move it where it belongs.

You should probably delete the thread that currently has no replies to do one housekeeping chore yourself.
Over time, you'll become more familiar with what goes where. Until then, we'll work together to get you up to speed, okay?

---

antigua gave you some sound advice regarding your present issue. I'll add another bit. When output is an issue, one of the first things you might consider is the distance from pickup to string. You may have overlooked setting the pickup height after installation. So be sure to check that your pickups aren't extremely distant before looking for other causes.

[holm]

Thanks for the replies and sorry for the double-post, the other post is deleted.

It's this set I've acquired: luckingpickups.dk/product/69-stock-of-wood/ 

I get the following reading on them: Neck: 5.8 - Mid: 6.0 - Bridge: 6.5 kOhm.

I tested the pole piece magnetic strength with a tiny Allen key, and it's comparable to the 65' set.

I haven't tested the integrity of the volume pot yet.

The strings are newly installed Ernie Ball '10-46s.

The pickup height is as high it can be without interfering with string oscillation.

I'll test the vol pot tomorrow and see if has any influence.

It might just be me being so used to the 65' set, that this new set, having a different, and I think "thinner sound profile", had me thinking it's an issue with the pickups!


Thanks again
Erik

[antigua]

Feb 14, 2018 14:04:45 GMT -5 holm said:

Thanks for the replies and sorry for the double-post, the other post is deleted.

It's this set I've acquired: luckingpickups.dk/product/69-stock-of-wood/ 

I get the following reading on them: Neck: 5.8 - Mid: 6.0 - Bridge: 6.5 kOhm.

I tested the pole piece magnetic strength with a tiny Allen key, and it's comparable to the 65' set.

I haven't tested the integrity of the volume pot yet.

The strings are newly installed Ernie Ball '10-46s.

The pickup height is as high it can be without interfering with string oscillation.

I'll test the vol pot tomorrow and see if has any influence.

It might just be me being so used to the 65' set, that this new set, having a different, and I think "thinner sound profile", had me thinking it's an issue with the pickups!


Thanks again
Erik

I'm surprised you hear much difference between the two. Another thing to try, take both guitars, turn the tone knobs all the way down, that will push the resonant peak down to 1kHz or so. Then compare the outputs again and see what happens. 

[reTrEaD]

Erik, you're a good man. We surely appreciate your efforts in housekeeping as well as the attention to detail in supplying information. If we are able to reach a conclusion about the volume issue, the work you've been doing on your side will speed up the process.

[holm]

Ok, so I've measured the resistance directly on the pickups, which gave the following readings:

Neck: 6.0 - Middle: 6.2 - Bridge: 6.7 kOhms, which is a bit higher compared to the readings through the pots and cable:

Neck: 5.8 - Middle: 6.0 - Bridge: 6.5 kOhms.

I'm not what this difference in resistance translate into soundwise, if any!

I'll install a new volume pot just for good measure.

Thanks
Erik

[holm]

Feb 14, 2018 15:01:37 GMT -5 antigua said:

Feb 14, 2018 14:04:45 GMT -5 holm said:

Thanks for the replies and sorry for the double-post, the other post is deleted.

It's this set I've acquired: luckingpickups.dk/product/69-stock-of-wood/ 

I get the following reading on them: Neck: 5.8 - Mid: 6.0 - Bridge: 6.5 kOhm.

I tested the pole piece magnetic strength with a tiny Allen key, and it's comparable to the 65' set.

I haven't tested the integrity of the volume pot yet.

The strings are newly installed Ernie Ball '10-46s.

The pickup height is as high it can be without interfering with string oscillation.

I'll test the vol pot tomorrow and see if has any influence.

It might just be me being so used to the 65' set, that this new set, having a different, and I think "thinner sound profile", had me thinking it's an issue with the pickups!


Thanks again
Erik

I'm surprised you hear much difference between the two. Another thing to try, take both guitars, turn the tone knobs all the way down, that will push the resonant peak down to 1kHz or so. Then compare the outputs again and see what happens. 

Yeah, as I mentioned it might be me imagining things. I'll try to do a measurement with the tone all down.

[holm]

Feb 14, 2018 15:01:37 GMT -5 antigua said:

Feb 14, 2018 14:04:45 GMT -5 holm said:

Thanks for the replies and sorry for the double-post, the other post is deleted.

It's this set I've acquired: luckingpickups.dk/product/69-stock-of-wood/ 

I get the following reading on them: Neck: 5.8 - Mid: 6.0 - Bridge: 6.5 kOhm.

I tested the pole piece magnetic strength with a tiny Allen key, and it's comparable to the 65' set.

I haven't tested the integrity of the volume pot yet.

The strings are newly installed Ernie Ball '10-46s.

The pickup height is as high it can be without interfering with string oscillation.

I'll test the vol pot tomorrow and see if has any influence.

It might just be me being so used to the 65' set, that this new set, having a different, and I think "thinner sound profile", had me thinking it's an issue with the pickups!


Thanks again
Erik

I'm surprised you hear much difference between the two. Another thing to try, take both guitars, turn the tone knobs all the way down, that will push the resonant peak down to 1kHz or so. Then compare the outputs again and see what happens. 

So turning the tone down does nothing for the output on either guitar. For comparison the 65' set output is: Neck: 5.69, middle: 5.85, bridge: 5.68 kohms. Guess I'm gonna blame the pickups and buy a different set!

Thanks again
Erik

[newey]

I don't know if Erik has signed off on this thread now or not, but it belatedly occurred to me that this ought to be moved to wiring, or perhaps just to "pickups" in general instead of Testing/Modeling. But Antigua and RT jumped in to help, and I sort of decided to let the conversation continue since no one was objecting to the placement (though RT did mention movement early on)

So, whether holm returns or not, I'll put it to the moderator of the sub-board, antigua. Should I move this whole shebang elsewhere?

[antigua]

Feb 20, 2018 14:54:46 GMT -5 holm said:

Feb 14, 2018 15:01:37 GMT -5 antigua said:

I'm surprised you hear much difference between the two. Another thing to try, take both guitars, turn the tone knobs all the way down, that will push the resonant peak down to 1kHz or so. Then compare the outputs again and see what happens. 

So turning the tone down does nothing for the output on either guitar. For comparison the 65' set output is: Neck: 5.69, middle: 5.85, bridge: 5.68 kohms. Guess I'm gonna blame the pickups and buy a different set!

Thanks again
Erik

Though I'd be surprised if new pickups made a big difference, I'm curious to know if you ultimately decide that they do.

[holm]

I've come to my senses, and I've put that idea on hold for now, and been focusing on playing instead. But at some point I'll be trying another set of pickups I think.

\Erik