Post by encikhalid on Jul 13, 2018 23:54:46 GMT -5
Hi to all, I'm a long time lurker in this forum, reading a lot of information that are being posted here and today, I needed the help of the good people here to review my planned wiring diagram.
I'm putting a partscaster, HSH, 1 Volume, 2 tones, (3 push/pulls) + (3 dpdt on-off-on). I found a diagram that I like in the seymourduncan forum, but the coil selector switch that he used was 8 pins, 3 way slider switch. Since I have already the on-off-on dpdt switches, I decided to modify this to suit my parts.
So, the big question is, is there anything wrong with it?
Hi sumgai & thetragichero , thanks for replying. Since I play in a band that covers relatively a lot of genres, rock, slow rock, heavy metal, jazz, pop songs, dangdut (Indonesian style music - although I'm a Malaysian), so, I need to have a guitar that pretty much covers the various sounds.
The various basic combinations are as follows:
Strat - Tap both HBs, north coil (or south coil) selected (for each humbucker), 5-way as desired.
Fat Strat - Tap neck, bridge in HB mode, 5-way as desired.
Tele - Tap neck and bridge, south bridge coil selected, pos 5 for neck, pos 1 for bridge, pos 1 + middle on for both
LP/SG - Neck and bridge in HB mode, pos 5 for neck, pos 1 for bridge, pos 1 + middle on for both
The original diagram poster on seymourduncan forum indicates Neck On when volume push/pull is UP but I changed it to let the middle pickup on when volume push/pull is UP. One reason for this, i have a fairly hot single coil for the middle pickup.
I've also added a solo switch from the diagram that I follow from 1728 website and I used the star grounding for the wiring.
Hopefully this helps to clarify my intentions. Thanks.
Last Edit: Jul 14, 2018 17:31:01 GMT -5 by encikhalid
.... So, the big question is, is there anything wrong with it?
The real question, even bigger than yours, is "what's this thing supposed to do?"
In other words, we need a table of some kind that tells us what each switch position is supposed to achieve. Post that either as an EDIT to your original posting, or just a follow-up posting below, either way is fine.
Once we have that in hand, we can trace out the wiring to see what's what.
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Rule #2: In case you don't like the life you have, see Rule #1.
Hi newey, the humbuckers are identical in shape, a single coil sized rail humbucker that I bought from eBay, the neck is about 13.8k, the bridge is about 16.6k, the colour wiring follows the GFS colour code:
Green = Hot White & Red = Centre Tap Black & Shield = Ground
OK, got it. I'm not done looking this over, but so far it looks OK. My big question here (and help sussing this out would be appreciated- hint, hint . . .) concerns the neck HB series/parallel switch and how it works in conjunction with the coil selector switch. A more minor question concerns whether the neck/mid tone control is "playing nice" with the neck series/parallel switch.
The solo switch looks good, and the "mid on" looks OK too. The bridge coil-cut switch also looks OK. Just the 2 above areas I haven't sorted through yet.
As an aside, I have found that these twin-rail HBs have such small coils that they don't sound like much when split. I've always preferred putting the coils in series/parallel rather than splitting. But YMMV, I tend to mostly play with a clean sound, low gain and very little distortion. So if you're a hi-gain, crank-it-til-my-ears-bleed type, you may find the single coil sound from these useful, even though I didn't.
Yes, sorry, I meant both HBs, I was just using the neck to trace things out when I posted. If one HB is wired correctly, then both are OK.
Anyway, I have finished tracing this through and I think it will work as advertised. When the coil cut switches are "up" (as shown on the diagram), which selects the black/white coil, the other coil (green wire) is left "hanging from hot". This will work, but the hanging coil may generate some extra noise under some circumstances.
We try to avoid hanging coils when we can, because of this propensity, but some schemes make a hanging coil unavoidable. At the moment, I don't see a way to redo this to avoid the hanging coil, but maybe someone else can "see" a solution. It also wouldn't hurt to have another pair of eyes double-check me before you start soldering this together.
As I said, my comments about splitting dual rails are just my opinion, I wasn't trying to dissuade you from trying this. Others have done so and have not shared my view.
I should also note that, when I did wire one of these to split the coils, it was also a GFS dual-rail HB (I like GFS pickups and have many guitars with them), but GFS makes two versions of the dual rail, a "hot rails" version and a less-hot version. Mine was the less-hot one, so if you have the hotter-wound version it may be different. I just found the difference in output when split to be a problem.
Hi newey, thanks for the observation. I didn't realize there's a hot point hanging. But, I think, the wiring is going to be changed, I've been listening to some blues, Albert Lee, Peter Green, stuff like that, I think I'm going to put in there, a phase switch. The sound for me quite wonderful if can used properly.
There's a diagram from SeymourDuncan that do this, let me dig it up first and edit it out properly.
Or, maybe there's a diagram that anyone here can share?
Series/parallel/split with phase switch, crazy ideas.
If this is to replace one or the other of the coil-cut switches, it just plugs into the diagram. If you will be keeping the coil-cut switches and adding the phase switch, then some rethinking may need to occur, to insure that everything works together.
Out-of-phase sounds are more useful where the two pickups are further apart. Since your scheme has N + B sounds, it would make more sense to put the phase switch on either the N or B pickups, rather than on the middle one.
Post by encikhalid on Jul 19, 2018 10:57:12 GMT -5
Hi there newey, unfortunately, I just couldn't find the diagram that I was trying to look for, but after some thinking, I've decided to make my pickguard look stock with HSH 1 vol push pull, 2 tone push/pull and either normal 5 way switch or superswitch.
Is there any link or diagram that you or others may have that can be shared with this kind of arrangement?
Master Vol push/pull - split both HB Neck+mid tone push/pull - series/parallel Bridge tone push/pull - phase
Thanks in advanced for any help, much appreciated.
1) Only one half of the phase switch is connected to anything, so the bridge pickup will be disconnected in all settings.
2) The series/parallel switch puts the bridge pickup in series with the neck only when the 5-way switch is in position 3 (i.e., the neck position)
3) When the solo switch is set to the setting for the volume pot, the 5-way switch is disconnected from anything, so no pickups are connected. The output from the 5-way needs to go to the volume pot first, and also to the solo switch so it goes to outpput when the switch is pulled.
There may be other issues, I stopped at 3. Also, it is difficult to visually sort wires one from another when they run together, even though the colors are different.
Hi newey, thanks for your input on the last diagram. I was trying to modify the existing diagram from SD but I guess, I got confused. But, I've edited the original wiring with the added phase switch. I think it's okay, but maybe another set of eyes could help me determine whether it's good or not.
By the way, per the original diagram, when you said the green wire is left hanging from the hot, is there any other way to solve this?
The solo switch looks good, and the "mid on" looks OK too.
As you say the solo switch is fine (by itself), but I have issues with the mid-on switch. Mainly because I don't see it has much of a point -- it only has an effect in positions 1 & 5, adding the middle to bridge & neck respectively, thereby it serves the same purpose as positions 2 & 4. Though, admittedly, that does give the option of bridge + middle with only the bridge tone control engaged. An additional oddity is that the mid-on switch is currently only effective when the solo switch isn't engaged.
Another thing I've noticed is that, as currently drawn, with the neck switched to reverse phase with its coils parallel it isn't connected to the output at all.
Hi @yogi B and newey, thank you for your observation. I hadn't realized that when in parallel, there's no output at all. But I've changed the middle pickup on to bridge pickup on per you and newey suggestion. But, how should I fix the non output when in parallel with the phase switch on? This is the edited diagram to include bridge on.
But, how should I fix the non output when in parallel with the phase switch on?
In short the phase switch probably needs to be 'after' the other switching, which poses the question about reversing the role coil cut switch when switched out of phase, as currently done. Speaking of, the coil select switches are probably more complicated than they need to be (unless there is a way to avoid the shunts, but I don't see it).
I've changed the middle pickup on to bridge pickup on
Though it is still interactive with the solo switch, because it's connected directly to the volume pot which is bypassed in "solo" mode -- to avoid that it would need to be connected to the output of the left hand side of the pickup selector instead.
Hi Yogi B, thank you so much for your help in redrawing the diagram. Now I can see a bit on the issue of the no output on the phase switch. But, I have to ask, when you said you used SPDT for the sake of clarity, does the coil selecting between the north/series/south is changed as well? Or, I just make it complicated in my original drawing?
But, I have to ask, when you said you used SPDT for the sake of clarity, does the coil selecting between the north/series/south is changed as well? Or, I just make it complicated in my original drawing?
Yes and no. It was overly complicated in the original drawing: since the coil select switch only comes into effect when the coils are in series, that is when the red and white wires are joined, running them individually to the switch served little purpose -- hence I simplified it to only use half of each switch, thus only drew half.
Did I change the switching as well? Yes accidentally. Upon taking another look, I just noticed that I've unintentionally drawn both the coil select switches upside down.
Hi Yogi B, your drawing is amazing. It is so clear! How on earth did you do this? Is there a special software to do this?
Anyway, I'll let my friend who is going to help me with soldering have a look. I've shown him my drawing and he was confused, that's why I turn to the kindness of professionals such as you and newey for help.