13,14,15 and 17-way wiring (3 single coils, 2 switches)

[alexis]

Hello guitar nuts,

I would like your opinion on some wiring schemes I've come up with. They are based on the combination of a lever superswitch that controls the neck and middle pickups, and an on-on-on toggle switch that adds the bridge pickup.

So here we go : do you think it works ?

The first scheme I know works, because I have implemented it in one of my strat copies and it is very cool, a 13-way strat wiring :

The following three schemes build upon it. I have not tested them yet but at least on paper they look electrically correct and functional to me.

First we have a 14-way wiring based on the former :

Then if we use a 4PDT ON-ON-ON instead of a DPDT ON-ON-ON, I think we can get to 15 combinations with no redundancy:

And finally, if we have  one more throw on the superswitch making it a 4P6T  (like the freeway 3x3-05 switch) [EDIT : The freeway 3x3-05 is not a true 4P6T, but there may be suitable rotary switches. See below], I think we can get to all 17 pickup combinations excluding phase, in only 18 switching positions [EDIT : corrected as per Yogi's remarks] :

What do you think ?

Cheers

Alexis

[JohnH]

Thanks for posting those. I haven't checked them for working, but I really like the first scheme that you already have built. It has a great range of tones with all the basics and the usually favoured extras, and is simple. Plus, it has a simple B tone as a go-to sound that you can quickly get to from anywhere with one switch swipe. IMO, I would not feel compelled to add the further options!

[Yogi B]

13, 14, and 15 versions look fine, but a few points about the 17-way version:

• It appears, that you've missed a couple of wires on the sixth throws: from the 6th throw of the Neck -ve pole to Bridge +ve; and from the 6th throw of the Neck +ve pole to the output.

• Oct 12, 2018 15:23:11 GMT -5 alexis said:

  And finally, if we have one more throw on the superswitch making it a 4P6T (like the freeway 3x3-05 switch)

  If I'm correct the Freeway 3×3-05 isn't a true 4P6T -- the four switch poles are are divided into two pairs, A & B. These pairs only have a single common terminal each, CA & CB.

[reTrEaD]

Oct 12, 2018 21:08:57 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

If I'm correct the Freeway 3×3-05 isn't a true 4P6T -- the four switch poles are are divided into two pairs, A & B. These pairs only have a single common terminal each, CA & CB.

You are correct, sir. [/Ed McMahon voice]

bigdon62 Did the grunt work in this thread: 6-way switch, TBX, and T-Armonds to confirm that.

[reTrEaD]

Oct 12, 2018 15:23:11 GMT -5 alexis said:

Hello guitar nuts,

I would like your opinion on some wiring schemes I've come up with. They are based on the combination of a lever superswitch that controls the neck and middle pickups, and an on-on-on toggle switch that adds the bridge pickup.

Hello alexis

Is that a Superswitch or the latest version of MegaSwitch model M?

[alexis]

Ah, I didn't know that about the Freway 3x3-05. That's disappointing... so we  are back to rotaries, with all that it carries in terms of size, although it looks like this one would do the job:

lgswitch.en.made-in-china.com/product/rvpmIwbcsxUa/China-Power-4p6t-24-Way-Position-PCB-Rotary-Switch.html

Yes thank you Yogi for spotting the missing wires. I was so excited about the find that I went too fast and forgot to swap N and M entirely in throw 6. I will edit the drawing and opening post accordignly.

And yes, I am using the term 'superswitch' as a shortcut for any 4P5T, perhaps confusingly. My drawing is indeed based on a Schaller Megaswitch-M.

Anyway, if nobody else finds another flaw in the design, it is some sort of personal grail for me to have found a scheme that yields all 17 strat sounds in only 18 switch selection positions

[Yogi B]

Oct 13, 2018 1:44:37 GMT -5 alexis said:

Ah, I didn't know that about the Freway 3x3-05. That's disappointing...

It is really. I think, similar to the various megaswitch versions, the same mechanical hardware is used on all their toggle* switches, just with differing PCBs. For the other versions two commons are enough, and the ultra just continues to use the same.

---

* I need to specify toggle switches here as, looking at the Freeway website, they have recently added the 5B5-01 10-way and 3B3-01 6-way blade switches to their repertoire. Here's hoping in future they make ultra versions of those too.

---

it is some sort of personal grail for me to have found a scheme that yields all 17 strat sounds in only 18 switch selection positions

Redundancy isn't always a bad thing, my favourite thing about the LP type wiring is the (somewhat) redundant volume & tone controls -- having the ability to modify one pair whilst knowing the other, unaltered, is still available at the flick of a switch is very appealing to me.

The other case for redundancy is that where it makes each switch have a single obvious function. For instance I think I still prefer the 7×3 switching you first posted, because each switch has an easily definable role (one switch selects the arrangement in which the pickups are combined, the other rotates the order in which they are assigned to this arrangement). The core 13-way wiring is neat and can be explained relatively simply, but the 'exceptions' introduced by the 14, 15 & 17 way variants don't really make any intuitive sense, at least to me.

all 17 pickup combinations excluding phase

Just the other 30 out of phase sounds to go

[Yogi B]

Oct 13, 2018 20:56:12 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

the 'exceptions' introduced by the 14, 15 & 17 way variants don't really make any intuitive sense, at least to me.

I think my main issue with those is that the selection with bridge alone isn't with the toggle on the centre position.

With a quite a bit of rearrangement and a slightly more liberal allowance of shunting, I reckon it's possible to 'fix' this for the 15-way (see the diagram below), but it seems impossible for the 17-way variant.

---

Also, I think I'd find it more sensible to base the overall concept on the combination of neck and bridge rather than neck and middle, swapping throws 3 & 5. For example the 13-way version would become:

SW1 \ SW2	1	2	3	4	5
Ser	N × M	(B + N) × M	M	B × M × N	B × M
Off	N	B + N	M	B × N	B
Par	N + M	B + M + N	M	(B × N) + M	B + M

Though is obviously contradicts JohnH's comment about having the lone bridge easily accessible, it means the series and parallel combinations of bridge and middle are easily found right next to the bridge single, rather than being 'buried' halfway along the switch.

[burgercrisis]

17-way can be done with these switches:

www.banzaimusic.com/rotary-4p6t.html
www.banzaimusic.com/taiway-4pdt-on-on-on.html
Curious if you've finished any of these. I'm really extremely behind on my own wiring job.
I'm thinking I might incorporate this. My design already includes a 6 way rotary on each pickup to achieve each humbucker/coiltapped sound, including phased coil options, with phase switches for each pickup to eachother. Also another to change tone caps. I've started a couple threads here and still not finished it lol... but I drillpressed out space in a beater guitar, so I gotta do it eventually. I'll try posting the current iteration soon. Also working on a breakout PCB to reduce wire count (hopefully) and streamline the process somewhat... kinda funny, making a passive guitar with a PCB board LMAO

[alexis]

Hi burgercrisis,
I'm glad you asked. Yes, I have implemented the 17-way with a rotary 4p6t and a lever 4p3t switch (and phase swiches) which makes the guitar look stock and achieve all pickup combinations. In fact, I am in the midst of posting a series of videos about this on YouTube. If you're interested, check out "Alexikiki 47-way strat wiring".

[alexis]

Oct 13, 2018 20:56:12 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Just the other 30 out of phase sounds to go

That's what push-pulls are for !