Modified Armstrong mod

[nerd]

Hi there,

It's my first post so go easy on my kindly please

This place was suggested to me at Strat-Talk and I'm really amazed how great resource you guys created here. It's just crazy that I never heard of GuitarNuts before!

So I'm working on a strat wiring. It's sort of Armstrong blender type.

While searching for more info and clips I came across Vinnie Monte-Irvine version of this.

More on Vinnie mod:

- Description and wiring diagram www.reddit.com/r/Guitar/comments/85lsnu/discussion_stratocaster_modified_dan_armstrong/

- YT clip 

So I have decided to take it one step further by adding:

- middle switch position mod on the S1 Fender switch

- the same S1 is changing OoP (out of phase) to HOoP (half out of phase) in position 2 & 4 when blend is activated

- I have changed tone control to Greasebucket as simply I like it better to regular tone control.


So what I need before I move on is second pair of eyes to see if there is any screw ups I should deal with first.


Thanks in advance for helping out

[JohnH]

hi nerd, welcome to GN2

I had a look through the info but somehow its not easy to grasp. What might help us follow the intent could be a clear table of what is expected in each switch setting. Also ideally, a schematic to go with the wiring diagrams, even if only for the original version.

[nerd]

Thank you JohnH for taking the time to look on it.

I will sit down and do what you asked for but it may take few days. Im a paramedic and I have a run of shifts until mid week. 

Until than, thx again

[Yogi B]

Jan 26, 2019 23:25:53 GMT -5 JohnH said:

What might help us follow the intent could be a clear table of what is expected in each switch setting.

Whilst I can't say if it does match the actual intended switching, it looks okay to me.

Here's a comparison of the switching tables worked back from the diagrams:

Original (Vinnie Monte-Irvine) Version
Push/Pull	Blend	5-way	Output
Normal (Down)	0%	1	B
		2	B + M
		3	M
		4	M + N
		5	N
	100%	1	B × M
		2	(100n × 5k6 × −N) + M
		3	M
		4	(100n × 5k6 × −B) + M
		5	M × N
Engaged (Up)	0%	1	B
		2	B + M
		3	B + N
		4	M + N
		5	N
	100%	1	B × M
		2	(100n × 5k6 × −N) + M
		3	(B + N) × M
		4	(100n × 5k6 × −B) + M
		5	M × N

Modified (nerd) Version
S1	Blend	5-way	Output
Normal (Up)	0%	1	B
		2	B + M
		3	M
		4	M + N
		5	N
	100%	1	B × M
		2	M + −N
		3	M
		4	M + −B
		5	M × N
Engaged (Down)	0%	1	B
		2	B + M
		3	B + N
		4	M + N
		5	N
	100%	1	B × M
		2	(10n × 5k6 × −N) + M
		3	(B + N) × M
		4	(10n × 5k6 × −B) + M
		5	M × N

[nerd]

Thank you for taking the time to look at it and for doing the chart. 

Im really sorry that I still had no time to do my part, working frontline takes a lot of free time and especially recently on a day off Im just trying to catch up with family life. But I will get there.

So far I was only able to do stock Armstrong mod and I love it. Series positions are a bit dark with my pickups, I think its a mix of 250k load and pickups itself. I could do with a bit of presence but I love it otherwise.

Im not so sure if I like OoP and I can go with two types of HOoP in the end with two sets of R/C network. 

Anyway, I'm still on it and I will keep you in loop

Cheers

[nerd]

Got the schematic finally, I'm really sorry for the waiting. One thing I want to add to it is the blend on off with push pull. I know it's just a twist of a knob but I wish to have a quicker access too. Can this be done with SPST by shorting lug 2 to ground?

[nerd]

Hi guys

Any input or advice?

[reTrEaD]

Feb 20, 2019 11:32:34 GMT -5 nerd said:

Hi guys

Any input or advice?

Hi nerd



The use of a schematic rather than a wiring diagram was (in my opinion) a good choice but the lack of a table indicating what the selections are makes it more difficult to keep track of whether your intentions are being met. Are the target combinations here the same as those listed in the right hand chart in Yogi B's post?

I haven't fully evaluated your schematic but I think there may be some potential trouble spots. The fact that the blend control isn't being switched in or out by the 4PDT 'mode' switch seems like it could cause problems.

Also, you have your selector labeled as a Megaswitch. While the Schaller Megaswitch is functionally equivalent to a Superswitch, the pad letters don't follow the same numbering as the lugs of a Superswitch. Not really a big issue, just a nomenclature thing.

[Deleted]

Trying to follow this Circuit and i get LOST
i cant see any thing to Connect to any Pin 5 of the 5way switch.
If the Blend Pot is Swiped to GND, and S1 Switch is down (1) it grounds it in Selection 2 of the 5Way Switch

This S1 Switch (looks like 4P2T to me) why not put the Neck/Bridge Direct in to Pin 2 and 4 !! (dont know why its doing that in the first place) and then Put the 100nF (C2&C4) cap next to the 1K(R2) saving a Cap and 2 Switches! So only need a 2P2T Switch really

I tried to redraw the VERY COLOURFUL circuit from the link
I guessed the Red/Yellow where backwards to Green/Blue on the circuit other wise no one would be connected to 5.
Personally i would move the 100nF caps to the other side of the switch so sits on the 1-10KOhm Resister.
I wouldnt use a S1 Switch as it seems a Pointless waste, the Push Pull is only using half!
So where you have the Resister on its own, just keep that and put the cap 10nF (tho the picture has 104=100nF) inline and ground to the other side (as on S1.3) but you only need 1P2T 
And you can easy change the TONE Control for your Greasebucket tone circuit


Ref : Reddit stratocaster_modified_dan_armstrong
just a note, 0.1uK!!! guessing it should be 100nF!  and 500k !! 500K Capital "K" for KILO (IT KILLS ME)
T-Terra 10^12 G-Giga 10^9 M-Mega 10^6 K-Kila 10^3... m-Milli 10^-3 u-Micro 10^-6 n-Nano 10^-9 p-Pico 10^-12

[sumgai]

'bunny,


In some parts of the world, capacitance is spelled with a K instead of a C.

---

nerd,


First, to The NutzHouse!

Second, I'm happy that you give credit to the source of your inspiration, but we aren't so much interested in what Vinnie did as we are in helping you, the guy who came here and asked us for help. That means that we need to see a table, even a simple text one, that tells us what you want the circuit to do. Working backwards, so to speak, is all fine and dandy, but it puts the cart at the wrong end of the horse.

Another thing, and this is much smaller an issue, we'll all agree, is that when you post a diagram, in any stage of the proceedings, you should keep in mind that other viewers will see it, and eventually, someone's gonna "snatch" it for their own use. Things like labels, component values, and even a Truth Table all work together to make it easy for someone else to follow, later on. While it's understood that a work in progress is just that, and necessarily incomplete, I'm asking that you keep these items in mind as you approach the final drawing.

And at that, once this is done to your satisfaction, your circuit easily qualifies for posting to our Guitar Schematics sub-Board. (Generally speaking, we like entries therein to be complete at the outset. And preferably vetted by members before submission, although that's not a hard-and-fast rule.)

As to @angelsbunny 's suggestions, I'd advise that you first accomplish your goals in your own fashion, then we can all look for ways to optimize those results.

HTH

sumgai

[Deleted]

May 18, 2019 11:50:51 GMT -5 sumgai said:

'bunny,


In some parts of the world, capacitance is spelled with a K instead of a C.

But the unit is F for Farads! tho I was told that we use U instead of V for formulas now!

Xc = 1/2πfc  or be XK= 1/2πfK if only the world could make standards

[sumgai]

May 18, 2019 12:27:25 GMT -5 @angelsbunny said:

But the unit is F for Farads! tho I was told that we use U instead of V for formulas now!

Xc = 1/2πfc  or be XK= 1/2πfK if only the world could make standards

Now where's the fun in that, I ask you?

Seriously, I've been around for more than 7 decades, and I've seen standards come and go.  I can say with no little authority that they are really just temporarily stationary targets.  You can bank on someone, or several someones, taking potshots at a standard until it gets changed.  Then the pot-shooter changes faces, but the pot-shooting continues, unabated.  Same old, same old.

Nothing to see here folks, kindly move along, please.

sumgai

[nerd]

Hi guys,

Thanks to all for replaying and all points taken. I decided to scrap this as it gives more options that I will ever use. I have done a new layout with is essentially as this:

- S1 pressed down = stock 5-way SSS strat wiring with tone 1 global greasebucket tone control, tone 2 in bypass

- S1 depressed:

1. B/M in series / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bass contour to add clarity (or more accurate dial some mud out)
2. B/M in parallel / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed
3. B/N in parallel / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed
4. M/N in parallel / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed
5. N alone / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed

Essentially SSS to HSS (and some) mod. Everything I need and nothing I don't.

I have a set of Kinman's on side for ages now but no time yet to sit and put it all together. 

[Deleted]

i keep getting lost on the "FOCUS" bit, only comes in to play with S1 is at STAGE 2,
at Stage 1 it hooks up to the OUTPUT SIGNAL both sides.


Kept looking at "FOCUS" C1M and the 2n2F thats G&L Bass controls!
So ONLY when 5way Switch is in "1" and S1 is in Stage 2 Will this Bass Controls come in to play and on the MIDDLE that is LINKED to the Bridge Pickups only.
ALL other times "FOCUS" has nothing to do with the circuit!


5way Switch is on "5" S1 is in Stage 2, there is NO OUTPUT!

1 B                        M+B<FOCUS> (G&L BASS)
2 B.M                    B.M
3 M                        B.N
4 N.M                    N.M
5 N                        -----



The Bleed looks more like a Duncan layout with the Kinman Values 130/150K with a 1n2F


In your First Design you have a 47nF@400v Electrolytic Capacitor but now gone for a 330nF 

[nerd]

Jun 11, 2019 14:56:20 GMT -5 @angelsbunny said:

i keep getting lost on the "FOCUS" bit, only comes in to play with S1 is at STAGE 2,
at Stage 1 it hooks up to the OUTPUT SIGNAL both sides.


Kept looking at "FOCUS" C1M and the 2n2F thats G&L Bass controls!
So ONLY when 5way Switch is in "1! and S1 is in Stage 2 Will this Bass Controls come in to play and on the MIDDLE that is LINKED to the Bridge Pickups only.
ALL other times "FOCUS" has nothing to do with the circuit!

Yes, as it's stated in the text above I wanted Focus to be active only with B/M in series

[nerd]

You have modified your post after I answered

Well spotted on no output in position 5. I will have to look in to this. Thanks for this.

Treble bleed in my diagram is the one in current Fenders. It works alright in my guitar so I see no reason to change it.

330nF value is the one suggested in quieting the beast article.

Thanks for spotting the mistake!

[Deleted]

This is what I got at the moment... Do spot the errors as one can go snow blind after a bit.

Should be normal and then when S1 comes in to play it should
Neck middle(phased)
Middle linked to Neck
Bridge
Middle linked to Bridge 
Bridge middle(Phased)

Where I cooked up and hope to fix the basic Neck & Bridge ..dam it

[Deleted]

If all is RIGHT, should be N, NM, M, BM, B
and NB, Nm, M-B, mB, M-N.. i think its easy to get LOST

[nerd]

Jun 16, 2019 15:27:37 GMT -5 @angelsbunny said:

If all is RIGHT, should be N, NM, M, BM, B
and NB, Nm, M-B, mB, M-N.. i think its easy to get LOST

Hi angelsbunny. Thank you for taking the time to draw this but this is not a schame I'm after. With S1 deactivated this is indeed stock strat with global tone knob, with S1 on I only have two more modes, pos 1 is B/M in series with additional bass contour and middle position is B/N in parallel without contour. All other positions are stock Fender.

I'm in the middle of shift runs at work so I had no time to redo my schematic but once I get a minute I will.

Thanks to all

[nerd]

And yes I know it's a waste to a degree. With S1 we can have much more options. I really like a layout made by tubejokey with 10 options. But this is just what I need (and nothing I dont). I could be just fine with only additional B/M series with contour. The middle option was added as I was left with 1/4th of S1 unused and I tho it could be a nice addition that is not in the way with my needs. I'm rarely using middle pickup alone

[Deleted]

Well tubejokey way looks a lot more simple.. I get lost on my suggestion and mine was aimed as phasing so I think his is better for you 

[nerd]

Yeah, Tubejokey's is still more than I need

[Deleted]

BACK to BASIC
N, NM, M, MB, B

and with the S1 Switch
NB, NB, xxx , MxB, MxB





>I believe Electronics should be like Nookie, Stuff as much as you can in<

and try and post the right picture

Ive been Reading up on "tubejokey" from tdpri site
The Bass, that you wanted ONLY one part, TubeJokey uses on ALL parts, you can Turn it off by Setting it to ZERO and there for bypassing it. From what I've tried with a C1M Pot, it didnt seem to do much from 0-250K but from 250K-1M it have some tone change (to my ear) . Also noticed that TubeJokey has 500K with 2n2F, 

[Yogi B]

Jun 11, 2019 7:14:57 GMT -5 nerd said:

- S1 pressed down = stock 5-way SSS strat wiring with tone 1 global greasebucket tone control, tone 2 in bypass

- S1 depressed:

1. B/M in series / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bass contour to add clarity (or more accurate dial some mud out)
2. B/M in parallel / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed
3. B/N in parallel / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed
4. M/N in parallel / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed
5. N alone / tone 1 greasebucket / tone 2 bypassed

Here's a rough hand-drawn version but it should achieve the above (note I've omitted the volume & greasebucket tone controls for simplicity, but they just need adding the the output):

[Yogi B]

Here's a clearer version that also fixes the middle pickup grounds when the S1 is depressed (on positions 2 & 4 of super-switch pole [D]), which I missed on the above: