Two Tone Control

[Deleted]

We have Two Tone Controls on a Start, normally on the Neck and Middle but some times on the Neck and Bridge (tho if having on the Neck/Bridge you could use the same one as Never the TWO MEET) !

250K with 47nF typically .. WHY?

Could have a Master Dual 250K pot and a Switch, that lets me Flip between say
1) OFF
2) 250K + 47nF
3) 250K + 250K + 47nF
4) 250K + 250K + 100nF
5) 250K + 100nF
6) OFF 



Now have a Tone pot that can Off/250K+47nF/500K+47nF/500K+103nF/250K+103nF/Off
on any Pickup or any Selection



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Even  better 


This one gives me 250K/500K plus 10/15/25/33/43/45/57nF Range
Still taking just TWO holes and if you want a Push Pull on the POT side of things
and has a OFF button at ZERO

[frets]

AngeIsbunny,
I agree. Regular tone pots to me are so limited. I prefer to attach mini toggles or rotaries direct to the volume pot and use them universally to add the tones holistically. If I do a tone pot, I want it to be multi-functional - able to blend tones or allow for multiple tones. John has a mod whereby the tone pot is connected to a on/off/on that is wired in such a way (Series) as to provide 3 tones. This is one of my favorite mods. That’s just an example of a useable tone control; as is, your rotary idea.

[Deleted]

With Hex switching you could use 10nF (1) 15nF (2) 28nF (4) and 56nF (8)
giving a Range from 10-109nF with a Off too
0) Off
1) 10nF
2) 15nF
3) 25nF
4) 28nF
5) 38nF
6) 42nF
7) 52nF
8) 56nF 
9) 66nF
A) 71nF
B) 81nF
C) 84nF
D) 94nF
E) 99nF
F) 109nF
might be better with a 1P12T and 11 different types 
or if i ever get my log then again it was only designed to go up to 22nF

[frets]

AngeIsBunny,
I’ve done a lot of 6 position and 12 position Rotaries; however, the idea of a hexadecimal rotary is very intriguing. You could even add a 1.5H Audio Signal Transformer On/Off or On/On 1PDT Switch on the Hexadecimal Switch Ground to have Inducted or non-Inducted tone. Thus, adding to the diversity of the tone variations. Did you find this Hexadecimal Switch on Mouser? This is a project I’d like to pursue.

[newey]

250K with 47nF typically .. WHY?

The 47nF cap is more typical for a HB. Fender uses (and has used, for years) a 22nF. The 250K pots are used to darken the tone of the SCs a bit.

These choices are always going to be compromises to some extent. I tend to use 500K pots with Strat-ish SCs, I can always turn the tone down a bit if it is too treble-ish.

[Deleted]

The other thing i noticed opening up a few CHEAP guitars, the sharing of ONE CAP!!

so if Neck and Middle have the Tone, when on N+M you will have Two POTS but one Cap.
Meaning the Pot Value Changes, so from 250K each pot to 125K MAX and moving at a strange rate depending on each Pot!

[sumgai]

Dec 23, 2019 20:07:27 GMT -5 newey said:

250K with 47nF typically .. WHY?

The 47nF cap is more typical for a HB. Fender uses (and has used, for years) a 22nF. The 250K pots are used to darken the tone of the SCs a bit.

Not quite true. The first decade of Leo's guitars used 1MOhm pots paired with a 0.047mfd cap. (A pair of caps for dual tone contols, where found.) It was CBS in 1965 that started installing lower value parts. It is my personal theory they did this because they started producing solid-state amps that were almighty shrill. Dimming the tonal pallette of the guitar was seen as a less costly engineering solution. (YTMV - Your theory may vary.)

The exception to my claim above would be found in the Rhythm circuit of the Jazzmaster/Jaguar, which used a 50KOhm pot for the Tone control. Pretty sure they're still doing that, but I could be wrong on that score.

Dec 24, 2019 3:29:31 GMT -5 @angeisbunny said:

The other thing i noticed opening up a few CHEAP guitars, the sharing of ONE CAP!!

so if Neck and Middle have the Tone, when on N+M you will have Two POTS but one Cap....

Fender started this practice, well before the advent of the SuperStrat, and all the permutations springing therefrom. They still do it on Strats/Strat models found in the 2nd tier and downward.

I do have to say that for a large majority of players, this makes sense - very few of them ever de-dime the Tone control in the first place, they'll never know that they've been "cheated".

Someone remind me after Christmas to post about the history of Tone controls. Today and tomorrow are best left for some time off from cogitation about our favorite obsession.



Merry Chrismas!





sumgai

[reTrEaD]

Dec 24, 2019 11:46:42 GMT -5 sumgai said:

Dec 23, 2019 20:07:27 GMT -5 newey said:

The 47nF cap is more typical for a HB. Fender uses (and has used, for years) a 22nF. The 250K pots are used to darken the tone of the SCs a bit.

Not quite true. The first decade of Leo's guitars used 1MOhm pots paired with a 0.047mfd cap. (A pair of caps for dual tone contols, where found.) It was CBS in 1965 that started installing lower value parts.

Ackshally ...

Fender used "1/4 Meg" pots in Esquires, Broadcasters, No-casters, Telecasters, and Stratocasters, in the '50s and onward.


(Note how the early Telecaster had no option to have both pickups selected at the same time)

They listed 0.05uF caps on their documentation (0.047uF on the physical parts) for caps associated with the tone pot on Telecasters and 0.1uF caps on Stratocasters.

I believe that practice continued through 1971. The 1972 models had 0.022uF caps on both Teles and Strats.

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If we reason it out, larger value caps would be more appropriate for SCs where there is lower internal resistance and inductance in the pickups than HBs. The use of smaller caps for SCs is a somewhat unusual choice on the part of Fender.