2 pickups with parallel mixing, series attenuation

[perfboardpatcher]

2 pickup circuit with mixing option for pickups in parallel and attenuation option for pickups in series

On the circuit diagram I've connected the circuit straight to the output jack but of course a volume and tone section could be added to this circuit.




Consists of:

2 pickups, Bridge(B) and Neck(N)

6 toggle switches:
S1 in/out phase -> flips phase of B which enables out-of-phase sound with 2 pickups on
S2 series/parallel -> pickups in series or in phase when both pups are on
S3 B on/off
S4 N on/off
S5 Mixing/Attenuation on/off (Off = regular, no extra components in circuit)
S6 Pickup selected for attenuation: B or N

7 positions for the components which are either resistor or capacitor.
Examples: Np is component used in parallel pup combination and is in series with Neck(N). The component could be a capacitor (C_Np) or resistor (R_Np)

For series attenuation: Bs1 and Bs2 (voltage divider for B), Ns1 and Ns2 (voltage divider for N), Sbld (for By-pass)
For parallel mixing: Np (in series with N), Bp (in series with B)


About the switching combinations
S3 and S4 off - silence, regardless of the other switches

S3 and S4 both on, S5 off (S5 off=toggle down!) - regular pickup combinations, parallel in phase (PIP), series in phase (SIP), parallel out of phase (POP), series out of phase (SOP), S6 out of order

S3, S4 and S5 on - pickup combinations with added Rs and/or Cs, PIP with Np, PIP with Bp, SIP with Ns1/Ns2, SIP with Bs1/Bs2, POP with Np, POP with Bp, SOP with Ns1/Ns2, SOP with Bs1/Bs2

S5 off enables regular single pickup switching combinations N only and B only. For S3 only there's a hanging-from-hot situation when S2 is on.
S5 on ,S2 on, N only with Ns1/Ns2 or B only with Bs1/Bs2 - perhaps usefull depending on components?
S5 on, S2 off, N only with Np or B only with Bp - perhaps usefull in combination with a tone control?



The schematic

[Deleted]

just trying to clear things in my head  (so will edit this as i look at them)

S5 Mixing/Attenuation
S5a 
Position X then Neck is linked to Bridge, so BS1+NS1= new Cap value
Position Y then Neck is fed via NS1 and Bridge is fed via BS1
(Lol had to edit this as i got it wrong  )

[newey]

Your schematic labels the various switch poles as "a", "b" "c",etc, while on the diagram the poles aren't labeled. This makes it tough to correlate the schematic to the diagram. Also, it is not clear to me what "Slbd" is, looks like two disconnected wires.

So, an interesting scheme, but a bit cryptic.

[sumgai]

newey's use of "cryptic" was very polite, indeed. I would've said something like:

Sbld =

SPOILER: Click to show

[perfboardpatcher]

You guys seem all to have a problem with my innovation I was so proud of. Perhaps I can clarify with an additional schematic that shows the 2 cases of pickups in series with one of the pickups attenuated.





Sbld (series bleed) is just a location, a fixed position in the circuit that can house a component or not.

s5a eliminates Ns1, Bs1 and eventually Sbld from the circuit when in regular, non attenuated mode.

[ourclarioncall]

Congrats on the circuit , must have took some mental gymnastics to come up with this one 🙂

In comparison to to the other one I like that you have separated the series parallel selection , so it dwells apart from the neck and bridge coils , along with phasing and attenuation

I was trying to run through in my head earlier what the switching would be like, it seems like it would work well and be simple enough to get going with

I will have quite a few questions I’m sure

But the main ones are what is going on with the caps and resistors ?

I had volume switches for neck and bridge on my circuit, So is this doing something similar ? Cutting the volume of either neck or bridge for different sounds when in series /parallel ?

Also the tilte says “parallel mixing “ then “series attenuation”

Does this mean that the options for parallel setting are exclusive to parallel and vice Versa for series ? Or will the attenuation work for both parallel AND series ?

Hope I’m making sense

Or I could make life easier for you and just ask - what does your circuit do differently or better than mine ?

Cheers 👍

[sumgai]

pfp,


Finally, an explanation.  I don't think there's ever been anything like this throughout the guitar-realm of schematics and/or layout drawings.  That is, until you popped it out of the ether on us. I'm sorry to say that even I could not decode the meaning, and had to "prompt" you a bit.

Now to go look at your  diagram again.....





sumgai

[ourclarioncall]

Had another look at this and slowly read through your text

Ok, I think understand it 🙂 for the most part

Pretty cool, lot of options and flexibility in there then ?

So for example in the parallel setting , I will have the normal parallel sound but also two other variations, I can either turn the neck resistor (Np) on which will cut some of the neck volume resulting in a different parallel sound or i can go for the bridge Resistor (Bp) for yet another variation?

A bit like what I was using my two volume switches for neck and bridge to do, which was reduce either the neck or bridge volume to create a different mix between neck and bridge



And same with the series section except you have a combination of cap and resistor (Ns1+Ns2) or (Bs1+Bs2)

Am I understanding that correctly ?

[ourclarioncall]

perfboardpatcher

where hast thou gone ? I am patiently waiting for more info on this intriguing scheme 🙂😉

[perfboardpatcher]

Apr 6, 2020 18:10:28 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

perfboardpatcher

where hast thou gone ? I am patiently waiting for more info on this intriguing scheme 🙂😉

Don't panic. I'm still here. I was busy finishing some work I had to do in my spreadsheets. I can show now a couple of graphs and then tell some fancy story, that always works! Give me some time. I will prepair something and throw it in the group as we say in dutch and then we'll see what happens.

[ourclarioncall]

Apr 8, 2020 12:44:12 GMT -5 perfboardpatcher said:

Apr 6, 2020 18:10:28 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

perfboardpatcher

where hast thou gone ? I am patiently waiting for more info on this intriguing scheme 🙂😉

Don't panic. I'm still here. I was busy finishing some work I had to do in my spreadsheets. I can show now a couple of graphs and then tell some fancy story, that always works! Give me some time. I will prepair something and throw it in the group as we say in dutch and then we'll see what happens.

Ah, your Dutch ? For some reason I thought you were from England. So that led me to read up on what I call Holland and just learned that it’s not Holland , it’s the Netherlands (of which there are provinces called “Holland”. Fascinating reading ....”6 Caribbean islands, four countries, twelve provinces, two Hollands, two Netherlands and one kingdom, all Dutch.”

I met a Dutch preacher in Ireland a couple year’s ago, loved his accent and mannerisms. Cool guy. When I think of Dutch I think World Cup football and Rudd Gullit 😁

Look forward to the coming data on the circuit 👍

[perfboardpatcher]

I hope this addresses some of your questions, ourclarioncall.

Pickups in series with one pickup attenuated (take 1, I'm only getting started)

The next graphs are to demonstrate how different combinations of components affect the results in terms of equalization. The equalization is caused by the electrical properties of the components in the circuit. Phase of the pickups and comb filtering (Tillman) are left out of the equation. Per combination of components there are 3 pictures shown, a schematic of the pickups with the added components, a graph for the bridge pickup and a graph for the neck pickup. The pickups are identical with L=2.5H, C=120pF, R=7k. Both pickups also have a resistance of 700k in parallel. The external load (of fx pedal, amp) is supposed to be 470pF in parallel with 500k. The examples are dealing with the neck pickup being attenuated.

How to look at the graphs for neck and bridge?
First off, the graph for neck or bridge should be understood as a simulation of the pickup combination according to the schematic where one of the pickups is screwed away from the strings and not puting out any signal, if you know what I mean. Graph for neck then bridge pickup screwed away and vice versa.

It's a matter of eyeballing to get the picture. Compare neck and bridge graphs with the graph for neck and bridge in series (also provided) and compare the neck and bridge graphs of one example with all the other examples.

TLDR: just look at the graphs and figure out how the pickup signals are affected by the components. Start experimenting with component values and do sound tests.



For comparison: Pickups in series




I  Neck pickup attenuated












II  Neck pickup attenuated but with less treble loss













III  Treble cut and signal attenuation for the neck pickup











For comparison: Pickups in series, neck with added C









IV  Low cut for the neck pickup











Ouch!

[ourclarioncall]

I will just nod and smile and pretend I understand 😁

I will read through it again and think about it some more

[perfboardpatcher]

Apr 14, 2020 17:54:56 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

I will just nod and smile and pretend I understand 😁

I will read through it again and think about it some more

Or perhaps a different approach?
What would help is that you give me the conclusions of your tests so far. Do you have a list of results for the pickup combinations with an added capacitor? If you're still looking for an improvement in sound for some of the combinations maybe I could do some suggestions.

[ourclarioncall]

I want to get my lab coat on and my pen and clipboard to experiment with caps and resistors and if possible both, but I seem to keep hitting hurdles with circuits I’m trying when it comes to getting the cap section working. 

I’m pretty sure RTs one works, so I could use that , but it’s a bit confusing as that’s the one with the OOP and HOOP switches.

so as you’ll see as per request , maybe I would have more Luck with a simpler circuit that definitely works and I know I’m not deceiving myself thinking I’m hearing the accurate result of cap when I’m actually hearing something else 😊

[perfboardpatcher]

For a matter of completeness.


Pickups mixed in parallel 


For comparisson: pickups in parallel




I've used the term mixing because of how pickups (N) and (B) interact when a component (R or C) is added.  If for a part of the frequency range the signal level of one of the pickups decreases then at the same time for that same part of the frequency range the signal level of the other pickup will increase.


I Pickups in parallel, added resistor in series with N

















II Pickups in parallel, added capacitor in series with N