Treble Bleed plus Greasebucket Control Circuits

[pablogilberto]

Hello!

Can you share a reliable diagram of a wiring mod combination of Treble Bleed plus Greasebucket Control Circuits?

I also want to do a push-pull to toggle on/off each of them.

1 Master Volume, 1 Master Tone.

I have tried it but the Greasebucket Effect doesn't work.

Thank you!

[thetragichero]

check out the tone control subforum. pretty sure there's grease bucket analysis in there

[frets]

Pablo, there are many Treble configurations, the most common being .001uF capacitor w/150k resistor in parallel to the capacitor. Here are some other popular configurations. Search the forum for all the discussions about Treble Bleeds. 




Greasebucket

[frets]

Pablo’s Question made me think about a list of Treble Bleed types I had assembled from different web sources. Hope it is some help to everybody out there. It starts with the creator, the “type”; i.e., series, parallel and the values.
TREBLE BLEED TYPE LIST:

EDIT: Re-written to appear in table format, see Yogi B 's post below.

[thetragichero]

i just used the DiMarzio on this Epiphone lp
listing the values in pf would help with all those leading zeroes

[frets]

You’re right Trag, I need to convert them. I’m so used to listing everything in uF. Probably should put the pF and nF values in parentheses next to the uF value. I’ll fix it someday.

EDIT by sumgai: Some day has done arrived!

[Yogi B]

sumgai you might want to check your zeros 6.8nF & 5.6nF are pretty big for a treble bleed cap.

I got these (in ascending order of cap size, plus the addition of Ibanez)

Type	In Series With
	In Parallel With
PRS	180pF
G&L	220pF
Ibanez	330pF
Mojo Tone	470pF	220kΩ
John Hewitt (Cleartone Volume)	560pF	150kΩ
DiMarzio	560pF	300kΩ
Cort	680pF	150kΩ
Suhr	680pF	150kΩ
Most Common	1nF	150kΩ
Seymour Duncan	1nF	100kΩ
Octave Doctor	1nF		150kΩ
TV Jones (single coil)	1nF		150kΩ
Parrish a.k.a. “Fender”	1.2nF	150kΩ	20kΩ
TV Jones (humbucker)	2nF		150kΩ
Chris Kinman	2nF		130kΩ
Cindi Sullivan	2.2nF	100kΩ	27kΩ

[frets]

Thanks to Sumgai and Yogi for re-doing my list. Suhr is indeed 680pf and the 560pF is restricted to only the Cleartone volume.

[sumgai]

Yogi,


I double checked those values as posted by frets , but now that her original posting is gone, I can't provide proof pro or con. In hindsight, I should've hidden her original table under a spoiler tag. But your rendition is better than mine by far, so I edited her post to point to your offering instead. Thanks for the nice work.




sumgai

[thetragichero]

it's weird that guitar electronics universally use uf for capacitors. by no means did i intend to single out frets for it because you'll find it everywhere. no idea why

[sumgai]

trag,



In particular, you'll note that JohnH has used nano and pico as needful, almost his entire tenure here. I've used such often, and ChrisK even before me. I could name others that are long gone as well, but the point is, if other guitar-ish websites (such as forums and parts outlets) wish to use the longer terminology, that's on them. We can be forgiving at the same time that we are being too lazy to type in a bunch of zeros.

HTH





sumgai

[JohnH]

I use nF and pF mainly because a proper 'micro' symbol is a PITA to find and using a 'u' instead, like 'uF', is so very impure and sad.

[reTrEaD]

Jun 14, 2020 17:22:42 GMT -5 JohnH said:

a proper 'micro' symbol is a PITA to find

Yoµ are correct, sir

[Yogi B]

Jun 14, 2020 17:22:42 GMT -5 JohnH said:

I use nF and pF mainly because a proper 'micro' symbol is a PITA to find and using a 'u' instead, like 'uF', is so very impure and sad.

Well "uF" is much better than the flat out wrong "mF" / "MF" / "mfd" / "MFD", which I've seen used to mean microfarads rather than millifarads or megafarads a lot more often than the appropriate never.

I've also seen "mmF" as milli-millifarads which while technically equivalent to microfarads, but still a kludge. Also, my brain wants to parse it as "millimetre-farads" or possibly "millimetres of fluorine"

I also may or may not have seen "muF" used with serious intent.

Jun 14, 2020 18:49:04 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Yoµ are correct, sir

Reading up on the matter, the Greek lowercase mu is the canonical form and is therefore Unicode's "preferred" character (whatever that means precisely), see Unicode Technical Report #25 UNICODE SUPPORT FOR MATHEMATICS § 2.5 Duplicated Characters. That also applies to the Greek uppercase omega in place of the ohm symbol.

[thetragichero]

I've seen mmF (micro micro farads) used for picofarads. seems that and MFD are a 50s thang

[blademaster2]

It *is* amazing isn't it? Resistors seem to have had it together all along with the colour codes (apologies to the US folks for the Canadian/British spelling), whereas capacitors have always been poorly standardized and confusing. I know the reason (farads being huge and therefore necessitating small fractions for essentially any practical component value). Still, I have always been frustrated by this.

[newey]

μF . . .

There, was that so tough?

[sumgai]

Jun 16, 2020 20:55:38 GMT -5 thetragichero said:

I've seen mmF (micro micro farads) used for picofarads. seems that and MFD are a 50s thang

Errr, no.... I was there in the 50s, and we had no such problem - mmF was not micro-micro, it was as stated above, milli-milli. Ditto for never being a substitute for pico. But is is correct to say that the proper micro symbol was used very sparsely, even in print such as magazines dealing with electronics as a specialty.

While newey is correct, it's not hard at all to find and use μ (lower-case Mu), there is a problem in that not all character sets render it correctly. Even within a single character set, a person could be using two computers, each set up exactly the same way, and WHAMMO!, one will render it correctly, the other will not. Trust me, this exact thing has happened to me, although I no longer set up and use more than one computer in my daily life - a laptop of sufficient screen size and processing power is adequate for all my needs, these days. I also had the same thing happen with Ω, or capital Omega. That's why some of my early postings here used Ω, and more recently they've spelled out the word Ohms (or ohms, I'm not always consistent.).

HTH





sumgai

[thetragichero]

I'm not one to be argumentative (okay that's a lie) but what would you guess the value of this mica capacitor to be?

[reTrEaD]

Jun 17, 2020 17:12:11 GMT -5 thetragichero said:

what would you guess the value of this mica capacitor to be?

A quarter? Maybe fitty cent, idk.

[frets]

.005nF or .000005uF. This is a great resource when I get confused, which I often do. www.justradios.com/MFMMFD.html

[pedanticus]

Man, I thought I was pedantic..nF pFs already!

But yeah, everybody using their own dialect of dialectric is no fun. Those charts give me a headache...even with my spectacles on!

As for the born in the USA special above:

it's obviously a polarised 5 Mega Mega Farad cap! Dunno why anybody wants that in their axe. Mega axe anybody? SOLD! to the head banger in the back row.

It should probably be returned to the national grid? 

[pedanticus]

Thanks for sharing that table frets.