Analysis of pickups from a Chinese Gibson style guitar

[antigua]

I had a chance to see a supremely low cost Chinese made Gibson-like guitar up close and personal. I think it cost about $150. Without getting too much into the non-pickup related details, all I can say is that I would not buy one of these. One on the control knobs is actually gray, that's not a trick of the light. 

The PAF style pickups are the sort of thing you see on Amazon or other sellers for as little as $20. They have a lot of the same manufacturing markings of those cheap "FLEOR" pickups. 

Testing confirms the covers are brass, but I actually thought they sounded pretty good. The loaded peak frequency of the bridge is 2.3kHz, very typical of a bridge PAF style pickup. The neck pickup has a loaded peak of 3.4kHz, normally that would be very bright PAF, but the brass cover helps bring the treble down, and the over flat response up to 3kHz makes for a clear sounding neck pickup.

These pickups feature large Super Distortion style ceramic magnets, similar in size to a Filter'tron magnet, as seen below. The Gauss measures a max of 450, about 50% stronger than a comparable PAF clone with AlNiCo 5.  The neck pickup in particular can be likened to a Filter'tron, with it's higher resonant frequency and the brass cover, which attenuates treble, as a Filter'tron's oversized filister screws do as well. The bridge pickup doesn't have a high resonant peak, and maybe it should sound more muddy than I perceived, but this guitar also has brand new strings, and that might be pushing the overall treble content higher than it might otherwise be.

Instead of using a maple spacer, the plastic bobbins have legs baked directly into the mold that serve the propose of a spacer, and it is needed on both sides, on account of the double thick bar magnet.  

It's a bit odd that the bridge pickup has a DC resistance of 14k but an inductance of only 6 Henries. A JB has the same DC resistance, but an inductance closer to 8 Henries, and that is more usual. It must have a relatively low turn count with a fine gauge wire. I'm glad that they didn't achieve 8 henries with that pickup, I think the resulting tone is better off for it.  

The main takeaway I get from this is that cheap pickups can sound really good if the electrical values are favorable.  I think the stronger magnetic field caused by the large ceramic magnets is a plus, not a negative, a positive association with Filter'tron or Super Distortion pickups. After everyone is done arguing about who makes the best PAF clone, maybe they will try something different for different's sake, and it costs virtually nothing by comparison. 



Chinese SG, Gold w/ Blue Flame Top

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 14.3K ohms
- Measured L: 6.064H
- Q at 1kHz: 1.391
- Calculated C: 144pF
- Gauss: 450G (ceramic)

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.7K ohms
- Measured L: 3.375H
- Q at 1kHz: 1.459
- Calculated C: 152pF ( - 10)
- Gauss: 450G (ceramic)


Bridge unloaded: dV: -1.3dB f: 5.54kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: -1.5dB f: 2.36kHz (blue)
Neck unloaded: dV: -2.6dB f: 8.17kHz (red)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: -1.8dB f: 3.40kHz (green)

[antigua]

I have another Chinese clone guitar in hand, not one I bought, but one someone else bought, wasn't impressed with, and is letting me borrow it for as long as I want it. 

The guitar is more noteworthy than the SG clone above. For one thing, it's not as well made overall, there are several dead frets, the fret board is a mess, the binding is very sloppy, and the way the guitar is wired is a cheesy hack. They literally just wired the neck and middle pickups to the same posts, so when you select the neck pickup, you're getting the neck and middle pickups in parallel. It's not possible to get the neck pickup alone. In the middle position you get all three pickups. The bridge position is normal. I'm sure they did this because the real guitar must require a special toggle switch which the Chinese manufacturer was not inclined to duplicate. 

But that being said, the finish burst and the finish coat look pretty good, on par with a Epiphone perhaps, and the body appears to be actual mahogany, with nice meaty grains. This is a guitar I've seen in pictures and was never impressed by, but seeing it in person, it's hard to take my eyes off of it. 

A lot of guitarists say they like how the older guitars are imperfect, as it gives them character. I sort of feel that way about this guitar, the flaws are sort of interesting in their own right. If this were a real Ace Frehley Gibson it would cost upwards of $5,000, but here we have a guitar that looks the part, and can be used as a door stop or a foot rest when not serving as a guitar. All I have to do is fix a few of the frets and re-wire the guitar so that the pickup selections make some sense. 



Chibson Les Paul, Ace Frehley style

Bridge

- DC Resistance: 11.739K ohms

- Q @1khz: 1.697

- Measured L: 4.947H

- Calculated C: 100.45pF

- Gauss: 450G (ceramic)



All three pickups have near identical measurements, so I just documented one of them. They're cream colored, and they look pretty nice, I really love the color scheme with the cream pickups and the cherry burst. The pickup's plastic has a cheesy matte looking texture, and not the shiny butyrate or nylon. They get the job done though, I have no problem with them. 

The inductance values are typical of a PAF type pickup in the 7.5k range with 42 AWG, but because these have a DC resistance of 11.7k ohms, presumably they're using some finer wire. They have two large, black plastic spacers flanking a double tall ceramic bar. I actually think these pickups sound pretty nice. The PAF specs matched with a Super Distortion's large ceramic bar makes for a very present sounding pickup. It's too back the rest of the guitar needs a lot of work. 

[ms]

Sensible switching for a 3 pickup Les Paul is not so easy.  You have two volume and tone controls.  Maybe use one pair on the bridge pickup and switch the other pair  between the other two pickups.  The problem is to find a lever switch that will do this.  A four pole rotary, sure, but you need a small one with a long thread.  But it will only feel like an original LP if it has a lever switch BR-Mid-NK.  The way it is now it is just an LP with a different kind of sound in the switch position that is normally for the neck pickup, which might be the best you can easily do, although some people might prefer to connect up the middle and bridge pickups instead.

You can always use push-pull switches on the pots to do almost whatever you want, but that always seems messy, non-intuitive, and complicated to me.  But it would be tempting to use such a switch to go between the neck and middle with the lever switch in the "neck" or "both" positions.  

[antigua]

Oct 8, 2020 7:30:22 GMT -5 ms said:

Sensible switching for a 3 pickup Les Paul is not so easy.  You have two volume and tone controls.  Maybe use one pair on the bridge pickup and switch the other pair  between the other two pickups.  The problem is to find a lever switch that will do this.  A four pole rotary, sure, but you need a small one with a long thread.  But it will only feel like an original LP if it has a lever switch BR-Mid-NK.  The way it is now it is just an LP with a different kind of sound in the switch position that is normally for the neck pickup, which might be the best you can easily do, although some people might prefer to connect up the middle and bridge pickups instead.

You can always use push-pull switches on the pots to do almost whatever you want, but that always seems messy, non-intuitive, and complicated to me.  But it would be tempting to use such a switch to go between the neck and middle with the lever switch in the "neck" or "both" positions.  

I've been thinking about this ever since I received the guitar. I'm thinking about having the middle and neck pickups have on/off push pulls, with the neck pickup "on" by default, and the middle pickup "off" by default, so that that it behaves like a stock Les Paul with no middle pickup, but by way of the push pulls, any parallel pickup combination can be had.


I was hoping to do an "all pickups in series" option, because I think that might represent the maximum output that could be achieve by any conventional electric guitar,  but it would probably sound terrible. 

[ms]

Oct 8, 2020 9:35:59 GMT -5 antigua said:

Oct 8, 2020 7:30:22 GMT -5 ms said:

Sensible switching for a 3 pickup Les Paul is not so easy.  You have two volume and tone controls.  Maybe use one pair on the bridge pickup and switch the other pair  between the other two pickups.  The problem is to find a lever switch that will do this.  A four pole rotary, sure, but you need a small one with a long thread.  But it will only feel like an original LP if it has a lever switch BR-Mid-NK.  The way it is now it is just an LP with a different kind of sound in the switch position that is normally for the neck pickup, which might be the best you can easily do, although some people might prefer to connect up the middle and bridge pickups instead.

You can always use push-pull switches on the pots to do almost whatever you want, but that always seems messy, non-intuitive, and complicated to me.  But it would be tempting to use such a switch to go between the neck and middle with the lever switch in the "neck" or "both" positions.  

I've been thinking about this ever since I received the guitar. I'm thinking about having the middle and neck pickups have on/off push pulls, with the neck pickup "on" by default, and the middle pickup "off" by default, so that that it behaves like a stock Les Paul with no middle pickup, but by way of the push pulls, any parallel pickup combination can be had.


I was hoping to do an "all pickups in series" option, because I think that might represent the maximum output that could be achieve by any conventional electric guitar,  but it would probably sound terrible. 

So if you are in the normal LP mode on the bridge pickup, to switch to the middle alone, you have to move the lever switch and both push/pulls.  Depending on the order of the switching, you might have all pickups off during part of the switching.

All three in series might work with huge gain and distortion.  After the recently deceased guitar hero, you could call it "Van Halen".

[reTrEaD]

Oct 8, 2020 1:25:47 GMT -5 antigua said:

They literally just wired the neck and middle pickups to the same posts, so when you select the neck pickup, you're getting the neck and middle pickups in parallel. It's not possible to get the neck pickup alone. In the middle position you get all three pickups. The bridge position is normal. I'm sure they did this because the real guitar must require a special toggle switch which the Chinese manufacturer was not inclined to duplicate. 

For what it's worth, the 'special' Gibson 3-way is severely lacking in the combination choices. There are seven possible parallel-only combinations of 3 pickups but a 3-way can only give you three. Gibsons choices for this application are:

Neck only
Middle and Bridge
Bridge only

---

It would be possible to access all seven (parallel-only) combinations by using two standard Gibson 3-way toggles. Select either or both of any two pickups (for instance the Neck and Bridge) with the first toggle. The output of that goes to the second toggle and is selected alone, along with the odd-man-out, or the odd-man-out alone. (In this case, the odd-man-out is the Middle pickup.)

Of course, this requires a second toggle so it wouldn't be a 'stealth' modification.

[Yogi B]

Oct 8, 2020 9:35:59 GMT -5 antigua said:

I'm thinking about having the middle and neck pickups have on/off push pulls, with the neck pickup "on" by default, and the middle pickup "off" by default, so that that it behaves like a stock Les Paul with no middle pickup, but by way of the push pulls, any parallel pickup combination can be had.

The conclusion I came to when thinking about this a while back was to have one push-pull swap the neck for the middle, and have the other push-pull swap the bridge for the middle -- pulling both giving all three in parallel.

Both p/p's down (regular LP):

• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone)
• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone) + Neck (Neck volume & tone)
• Neck (Neck volume & tone)

Neck p/p up:

• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone)
• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone) + Middle (Neck volume & tone)
• Middle (Neck volume & tone)

Bridge p/p up:

• Middle (Bridge volume & tone)
• Middle (Bridge volume & tone) + Neck (Neck volume & tone)
• Neck (Neck volume & tone)

Both p/p's up:

• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Bridge volume, both tones & 500k load from Neck volume)
• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Both volumes in parallel, Both tones)
• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Neck volume, both tones & 500k load from Bridge volume)

I'd put those push-pulls on the volumes and make remaining tones push-pulls too, for phasing. Bridge tone p/p swapping the phase of the neck pickup, and vice-versa. That would cause some unintuitive behaviour with either both volumes or both tones pulled, but otherwise still makes sense: e.g. if one were to pull the neck tone for out-of-phase -B + N and then pull the neck volume to swap out the neck for the middle the result is still an OoP combination -B + M.

(The reason the above combinations can't be B + -N and B + -M, is because my solution to get all three PUs requires that only the 'positive' wires are switched when swapping out for the middle -- and middle's 'negative' wire remains grounded at all times.)

Oct 8, 2020 10:33:56 GMT -5 ms said:

All three in series might work with huge gain and distortion.  After the recently deceased guitar hero, you could call it "Van Halen".

Or "Everything, Viciously Hot!", or "Extreme Voltage Hookup", or "Electrifyingly Vivid Harmony", or "Evokes Viscous Honey", or "Effin' Very Heavy", or ...

Oct 8, 2020 11:08:07 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

For what it's worth, the 'special' Gibson 3-way is severely lacking in the combination choices. ... Gibson's choices for this application are:

Neck only
Middle and Bridge
Bridge only

That's still two more than The Spaceman needed:

• Neck only
• Middle and Bridge
• Bridge Only

It's probably also worth noting that Gibson often has/had the Middle & Bridge setting OoP.

[newey]

Can't think off hand what thread it was, but JohnH had what I thought was the neatest, stealhiest solution for adding switching to an LP-style guitar- he used the round plastic back cover, the one that accesses the toggle switch, to mount a pair of slide switches. Very clean installation, "sanitary" as the old hot rodders say. This would probably not be the way to go for pickup switching, as it's harder to access "on the fly", but for phase or series/parallel switches might be an option.

Also, for those who don't like push/pull pots, remember that push/push pots are available that alleviate most of the objections.

The "Freeway switch" is another option to keep the stock look and add functionality.

[newey]

BTW, this thread seems to be verging far afield from antigua's original Chinese pickup tests (Yeah, I'm guilty, too). I'm wondering if we shouldn't move everything after the testing post to a new thread in wiring . . .

[antigua]

Oct 9, 2020 11:01:15 GMT -5 newey said:

BTW, this thread seems to be verging far afield from antigua's original Chinese pickup tests (Yeah, I'm guilty, too). I'm wondering if we shouldn't move everything after the testing post to a new thread in wiring . . .

There's not a whole lot to be said about the pickups really, it's mostly just documentation so that if someone encounters these pickups at a later time, there's sme reference information available. I've always tried to focus on after market pickups that anyone can choose to buy, but I have a feeling these pickups probably make an appearance in a variety of low quality Chinese guitars. The good news is that they're great sounding pickups despite being cheap.

I'm going to mess with the wiring of this guitar this weekend, I have an idea that's not fully thought through yet. A blessing of dirt cheap guitars that are still a pleasure to work with and play is that the stakes are very low and it's pure fun. No worries about impacting resale value. 

[antigua]

Oct 8, 2020 19:15:08 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Oct 8, 2020 9:35:59 GMT -5 antigua said:

I'm thinking about having the middle and neck pickups have on/off push pulls, with the neck pickup "on" by default, and the middle pickup "off" by default, so that that it behaves like a stock Les Paul with no middle pickup, but by way of the push pulls, any parallel pickup combination can be had.

The conclusion I came to when thinking about this a while back was to have one push-pull swap the neck for the middle, and have the other push-pull swap the bridge for the middle -- pulling both giving all three in parallel.

Both p/p's down (regular LP):

• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone)
• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone) + Neck (Neck volume & tone)
• Neck (Neck volume & tone)

Neck p/p up:

• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone)
• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone) + Middle (Neck volume & tone)
• Middle (Neck volume & tone)

Bridge p/p up:

• Middle (Bridge volume & tone)
• Middle (Bridge volume & tone) + Neck (Neck volume & tone)
• Neck (Neck volume & tone)

Both p/p's up:

• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Bridge volume, both tones & 500k load from Neck volume)
• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Both volumes in parallel, Both tones)
• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Neck volume, both tones & 500k load from Bridge volume)

I'd put those push-pulls on the volumes and make remaining tones push-pulls too, for phasing. Bridge tone p/p swapping the phase of the neck pickup, and vice-versa. That would cause some unintuitive behaviour with either both volumes or both tones pulled, but otherwise still makes sense: e.g. if one were to pull the neck tone for out-of-phase -B + N and then pull the neck volume to swap out the neck for the middle the result is still an OoP combination -B + M.

(The reason the above combinations can't be B + -N and B + -M, is because my solution to get all three PUs requires that only the 'positive' wires are switched when swapping out for the middle -- and middle's 'negative' wire remains grounded at all times.)

That's a good way to go. I'm curious what the sound is like if, for example, you have all three pickups in parallel, and a given pickup is out of phase with the other two. In general, I'm not a fan of OOP sounds, but maybe with three pickup in parallel it might sound more usable or interesting. 

[antigua]

Oct 8, 2020 19:15:08 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Oct 8, 2020 9:35:59 GMT -5 antigua said:

I'm thinking about having the middle and neck pickups have on/off push pulls, with the neck pickup "on" by default, and the middle pickup "off" by default, so that that it behaves like a stock Les Paul with no middle pickup, but by way of the push pulls, any parallel pickup combination can be had.

The conclusion I came to when thinking about this a while back was to have one push-pull swap the neck for the middle, and have the other push-pull swap the bridge for the middle -- pulling both giving all three in parallel.

Both p/p's down (regular LP):

• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone)
• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone) + Neck (Neck volume & tone)
• Neck (Neck volume & tone)

Neck p/p up:

• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone)
• Bridge (Bridge volume & tone) + Middle (Neck volume & tone)
• Middle (Neck volume & tone)

Bridge p/p up:

• Middle (Bridge volume & tone)
• Middle (Bridge volume & tone) + Neck (Neck volume & tone)
• Neck (Neck volume & tone)

Both p/p's up:

• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Bridge volume, both tones & 500k load from Neck volume)
• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Both volumes in parallel, Both tones)
• Bridge + Middle + Neck; (Neck volume, both tones & 500k load from Bridge volume)

I'd put those push-pulls on the volumes and make remaining tones push-pulls too, for phasing. Bridge tone p/p swapping the phase of the neck pickup, and vice-versa. That would cause some unintuitive behaviour with either both volumes or both tones pulled, but otherwise still makes sense: e.g. if one were to pull the neck tone for out-of-phase -B + N and then pull the neck volume to swap out the neck for the middle the result is still an OoP combination -B + M.

(The reason the above combinations can't be B + -N and B + -M, is because my solution to get all three PUs requires that only the 'positive' wires are switched when swapping out for the middle -- and middle's 'negative' wire remains grounded at all times.)

OK, I give up. I'm trying to figure out how to wire the two push pulls such that you end up with all three pickups active at once when, and only when, both push pulls are in the up position.

One of the two poles on each push-pull has to be dedicated to switching the middle pickup, and the bridge or neck pickup respectively, which leaves one pole remaining on each push pull to do the magic of adding the bridge and neck pickups to the hot side of the circuit, but only when both push pulls are in the "up" position, neither the bridge nor the neck pickup should be connected to the hot side of the circuit if one push pull or the other is in the down position. I must be missing something if you were able to make this work. 

The pickups in this Les Paul are single conductor style, so I can't do any phase mods without putting more work into the pickup situation that I'd care to.

[Yogi B]

Oct 11, 2020 3:26:44 GMT -5 antigua said:

One of the two poles on each push-pull has to be dedicated to switching the middle pickup, and the bridge or neck pickup respectively, which leaves one pole remaining on each push pull to do the magic of adding the bridge and neck pickups to the hot side of the circuit, but only when both push pulls are in the "up" position, neither the bridge nor the neck pickup should be connected to the hot side of the circuit if one push pull or the other is in the down position.

But that's not exactly right: when you pull the knob to swap the bridge for the middle, then the neck pickup should still be connected to its own controls -- and vice-versa when swapping the neck for middle. Therefore purpose of the second pole of each switch is to ensure that the non-swapped pickup remains connected to its controls.

Schematically that looks something like this (excusing the phase switches):

The most obvious shortcoming of this design is that with all three pickups selected you don't get any blending options.

I did also think about an alternative version with more complex switching in place of the phase push-pulls, but now I can't remember what that involved. I'll see if I saved any notes...

[antigua]

Oct 12, 2020 0:08:31 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Oct 11, 2020 3:26:44 GMT -5 antigua said:

One of the two poles on each push-pull has to be dedicated to switching the middle pickup, and the bridge or neck pickup respectively, which leaves one pole remaining on each push pull to do the magic of adding the bridge and neck pickups to the hot side of the circuit, but only when both push pulls are in the "up" position, neither the bridge nor the neck pickup should be connected to the hot side of the circuit if one push pull or the other is in the down position.

But that's not exactly right: when you pull the knob to swap the bridge for the middle, then the neck pickup should still be connected to its own controls -- and vice-versa when swapping the neck for middle. Therefore purpose of the second pole of each switch is to ensure that the non-swapped pickup remains connected to its controls.

Schematically that looks something like this (excusing the phase switches):

The most obvious shortcoming of this design is that with all three pickups selected you don't get any blending options.

I did also think about an alternative version with more complex switching in place of the phase push-pulls, but now I can't remember what that involved. I'll see if I saved any notes...

Thanks for taking the time to create this schematic. I don't see many alternative wiring schemes on the internet for three pickup Les Pauls, surprisingly. Maybe there are some in repositories, but Google searching didn't turn up much of anything. I hope you cross post this to the wiring forum because I think this is high value intellectual property.

My priorities are  1) stock appearance, and 2) every combination of pickups in parallel, in phase, because IMO those are the most useful sounds. Series is often too dark, and OOP is often unusable, unless you're playing funk, and 3) be relatively easy to switch in a live context, and I think swapping the bridge / middle / neck is a great way to have it behave like a stock Les Paul, but offer a lot more sounds. I don't really care for blending, because in a live situation, blending is very low priority, and too difficult to fiddle with and play at the same time. 

Truth be told I had to put away all my soldering stuff away earlier today, and I needed to be done messing with this Chibson, so I went with my earlier scheme of toggling the neck and/or middle on/off while sharing common controls, which allows me to get any parallel combination, but isn't quite as "usable" as your wiring scheme. I'm saving it, because I've been thinking about picking up a Black Beauty for the last twenty years, and never did because the stock pickup selection is terrible, but not I'm seriously thinking about getting one and applying your schematic.

[Yogi B]

Oct 12, 2020 0:08:31 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

I did also think about an alternative version with more complex switching in place of the phase push-pulls, but now I can't remember what that involved. I'll see if I saved any notes...

I didn't. But now I'm pretty sure I was misremembering anyway -- I think the alternative plan was using a superswitch for assigning the pickups to the volumes: pos 3 stock (2 PU) LP; pos 2 & 4 adding the middle in parallel to either the bridge or neck respectively; pos 1 & 5 swapping in the middle for the neck or bridge, again respectively.

That's not very friendly with maintaining stock appearance, but my starting point for the idea was a Tele, not an LP, so the slot for the 5-way was a given -- it's addition of a 3-way toggle where it 'should belong' and the two additional pots that're new.

Oct 12, 2020 1:55:18 GMT -5 antigua said:

I don't see many alternative wiring schemes on the internet for three pickup Les Pauls, surprisingly. Maybe there are some in repositories, but Google searching didn't turn up much of anything.

I don't find that too surprising since 3PU LPs/SGs are a relatively niche thing, and most people seem to be satisfied enough with the mod to sacrifice individual tones for a middle pickup blender.

I hope you cross post this to the wiring forum because I think this is high value intellectual property.

Soon™

Oct 8, 2020 11:08:07 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

It would be possible to access all seven (parallel-only) combinations by using two standard Gibson 3-way toggles.

(As Gibson did with their Explorer III)

[antigua]

Oct 15, 2020 6:05:58 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Oct 12, 2020 1:55:18 GMT -5 antigua said:

I don't see many alternative wiring schemes on the internet for three pickup Les Pauls, surprisingly. Maybe there are some in repositories, but Google searching didn't turn up much of anything.

I don't find that too surprising since 3PU LPs/SGs are a relatively niche thing, and most people seem to be satisfied enough with the mod to sacrifice individual tones for a middle pickup blender.

That's cool too, but AFAIK you can't get the middle pickup by itself with a blend in knob. Also, I've come to rely on the separate tone controls for the neck and bridge, usually just to tame the bride pickup specifically.

I did put an order in for the Bonamassa Black Beauty, the specs are very favorable. I'll use the switching mod, but the phasing I can't do without installing 4 conductor humbuckers, which the stock pickups will not be. 

Your wiring diagram was what I needed to get that wiring scheme sorted out, but I had to draw it out with physical components, it was a little tricky trying to map the schematic to the actual terminals of the two push/pulls. 

[Yogi B]

Oct 15, 2020 16:08:19 GMT -5 antigua said:

Oct 15, 2020 6:05:58 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

I don't find that too surprising since 3PU LPs/SGs are a relatively niche thing, and most people seem to be satisfied enough with the mod to sacrifice individual tones for a middle pickup blender.

That's cool too, but AFAIK you can't get the middle pickup by itself with a blend in knob.

Since the middle blender comes after the toggle switch and thus after the neck & bridge volumes, it's possible to get close to the middle pickup by itself by rolling off one (or both) of the other volumes just a little. Though this will obviously load the middle more than if it were properly switched, also blend control won't work as an effective volume control, so it's still not great.

most people seem to be satisfied enough with the mod to sacrifice individual tones for a middle pickup blender.

Also, I've come to rely on the separate tone controls for the neck and bridge, usually just to tame the bridge pickup specifically.

I should have worded that better: "sacrifice the ability to have both individual tones simultaneously". Most just opt for a (post volume / '50s style) global tone, but there's no practical reason stopping you from having a single bridge-only tone instead, or using a push-pull to have it switchable between bridge & neck.

I did put an order in for the Bonamassa Black Beauty

Nice! Though I apologise for tipping the balance in favour of GAS over willpower.

When it comes to resisting the acquisition of a three pickup LP, I'm in the more stable position of not being overly fond of the aesthetics of the Les Paul Custom, so I've got limited options. I'd want something that looks and feels more sleek and modern. Additionally I'm stuck favouring an inverted colour scheme -- a white stallion, rather than the black stallion that is black beauty. And therefore, for me, it'd have to be something similar to the following:

SPOILER: Click to show

Your wiring diagram was what I needed to get that wiring scheme sorted out, but I had to draw it out with physical components, it was a little tricky trying to map the schematic to the actual terminals of the two push/pulls.

I know I said "Soon™", but at least give me a day to draw a wiring diagram. You're far too quick!

[antigua]

Oct 15, 2020 23:57:10 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Oct 15, 2020 16:08:19 GMT -5 antigua said:

That's cool too, but AFAIK you can't get the middle pickup by itself with a blend in knob.

Since the middle blender comes after the toggle switch and thus after the neck & bridge volumes, it's possible to get close to the middle pickup by itself by rolling off one (or both) of the other volumes just a little. Though this will obviously load the middle more than if it were properly switched, also blend control won't work as an effective volume control, so it's still not great.

Also, I've come to rely on the separate tone controls for the neck and bridge, usually just to tame the bridge pickup specifically.

I should have worded that better: "sacrifice the ability to have both individual tones simultaneously". Most just opt for a (post volume / '50s style) global tone, but there's no practical reason stopping you from having a single bridge-only tone instead, or using a push-pull to have it switchable between bridge & neck.

I did put an order in for the Bonamassa Black Beauty

Nice! Though I apologise for tipping the balance in favour of GAS over willpower.

When it comes to resisting the acquisition of a three pickup LP, I'm in the more stable position of not being overly fond of the aesthetics of the Les Paul Custom, so I've got limited options. I'd want something that looks and feels more sleek and modern. Additionally I'm stuck favouring an inverted colour scheme -- a white stallion, rather than the black stallion that is black beauty. And therefore, for me, it'd have to be something similar to the following:

SPOILER: Click to show

Your wiring diagram was what I needed to get that wiring scheme sorted out, but I had to draw it out with physical components, it was a little tricky trying to map the schematic to the actual terminals of the two push/pulls.

I know I said "Soon™", but at least give me a day to draw a wiring diagram. You're far too quick!

I hope you still make a practical schematic, mine was just hastily drawn on a napkin, not worth sharing. 

Like I said, I'd wanted that Black Beauty since forever. I like the look, being a pickup freak, it really speaks to me. They look especially cool with a Bigsby. 

Speaking of Chibson's, you might like this www.ebay.com/i/303408111640?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28 , it's not your color, but it has modern styling.