Number of frets you prefer and why.

[mlrpa]

I had asked this on the Jemsite, and was mildly surprised at the answer. But then again, not. The jemsite, and not knocking them, is full of younger kids, thinking that shredding is the only way to go.

Me, myself and I will always prefern and love 22 frets. Although my 67 Telestar, as seen in the thread UGLY GUITAR, is a 20, and a GREAT player!! (I added 2 Seymore Duncan's.)

22 Frets just sound warmer in the neck.

[wolf]

I voted for 21.
When I first started playing guitar, I liked the idea of 22 frets. (The 22nd fret note on EACH of the strings is neither a sharp nor a flat. (That Fender 21st fret gives you C#, G#, etc - yuck.)
Then I thought 24 frets would be a great idea. You get 2 full octaves on each string.
Then I re-thought about 24 frets. It's much too crowded for playing and for pickups.

I have within the last few years preferred 21 (what I originally hated). It provides lots of room for playing and pickups. Also, I use pinch harmonics a lot and they are sometimes found around the 21st and 22nd fret areas.
As I stated at the beginning, that 21st fret is just flat and sharp notes and I wouldn't mind (as you said) just having 20.

[Runewalker]

Along with Wolf, I liked the idea of 24 frets, 2 octives and all, but found I did not venture there often. Growing up on Gibbies I lean to 22 but point of fact is I stay mostly above the 18th fret anyway. Got a guitar I built with 21. It is very light so it is good for some rhythm work and of course my 48" vertical leaps around the arena stage.

Found I don't really even miss the 22nd fret.

One of my current projects is converting a lefty strat into a righty, and it is heck playing above 15 with the upside down horn. Hat's off to Jimmy, but even with that one I can do just fine.

22 by a shade. I can do fine with 22. Still like the fact I have a 24 .... but so what.

Wolf does make the point you loose some realestate and tone options with the small space between the 24th fret and the bridge. May have to go to a 12 fret neck to maximize tone options.

RW

[dunkelfalke]

24 frets, although i don't use them fully. just because the revelation 24 fret fretboard is so fantastic.

anyway, i have heard that if a pickup is directly under the 24th fret-would-be it would eat harmonics.

[bam]

i like 24 frets simply because usually 24 fretted guitars are small bodied. seldom use those higher frets, actually.

[dunkelfalke]

hehe bam, it looks like we prefer more or less the same types of guitars, where only details differ (like pickups or vibrato choices)

[Trey]

The number of frets is insignifcant for me, I rarely if ever venture above the 19th fret to begin with so an extra two or three fret doesn't matter to me.

[UnklMickey]

i haven't yet owned a guitar with 24 frets. sounds like it might be interesting.

i think MOST guitars have exactly one fret too few.

the one they're missing is the 0 fret.

as much as i might like to try a 24 fret axe, i'd sooner settle for 18 if one of them was a zero.

dunkelfalke said:

anyway, i have heard that if a pickup is directly under the 24th fret-would-be it would eat harmonics.

there is some basis for that thinking. that is exactly a node for the 4th harmonic on an open string.

BUT, as soon as you fret the string, that node gets shifted toward the bridge.

runewalker said:

...Wolf does make the point you loose some realestate and tone options with the small space between the 24th fret and the bridge. May have to go to a 12 fret neck to maximize tone options.

RW

yeah RW,

you could have a much shorter neck, and a much larger body.

think of all that extra tonewood! .:LMOA:.


unk

[Ripper]

Didnt a wise man say " Theres no money above the 5th fret"....hmmmm? a five fret guitar! ( note to self)

[JohnH]

unklmickey said:

i think MOST guitars have exactly one fret too few.

the one they're missing is the 0 fret.

unk

Unk - I have one guitar with a zero fret (just in front of the nut), which is a Shergold. In principle it gives a nice consistent low action. An issue with it though is that it wears alot quicker than the other frets, because the string seems to wear it down on a single consistent spot wheras the other frets wear more evenly.

A normal nut however, does not seem to wear in the same way, since the strings are supported all round in a groove rather than just bearing at their edge onto a zero fret.

John

[Trey]

deepblue said:

Didnt a wise man say " Theres no money above the 5th fret"....hmmmm? a five fret guitar! ( note to self)

Well that was in refrence to bassguitar...

[GuyaGuy]

unklmickey said:

i haven't yet owned a guitar with 24 frets. sounds like it might be interesting.

i think MOST guitars have exactly one fret too few.

the one they're missing is the 0 fret.

amen to that. i love the zero. it gives just a smidgen more room to fret chords and does wonders for keeping in tune with a vibrato unit! i believe we have gretsch and jim burns to thank for the "0."

and 24 frets just make sense--they just round out the 2 octave board--but also i find myself using those extra frets now and again. especially usefull for playing over loops of your own guitar parts--the various octaves let each part stand out without getting muddy. but also good for more controlled variations on david gilmour's spaceyslippery slide.

[GuyaGuy]

deepblue said:

Didnt a wise man say " Theres no money above the 5th fret"....hmmmm? a five fret guitar! ( note to self)

yup--tommy tedesco.

[bam]

speaking about the 24th fret .. does anyone know a song in which the guitarist uses the 24th fret, 6th string ?

[dunkelfalke]

well, only virtual (with pitch shifter) because normal strat hasn't any.

david gilmour - marooned. goes up to the 29th fret.

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

dunkelfalke said:

well, only virtual (with pitch shifter) because normal strat hasn't any.

david gilmour - marooned. goes up to the 29th fret.

I guess that even tops the tab I saw for Layla, where it referred to a 25^th fret. That was when Duane Allman was doing that whistling slide stuff. I think it had footnotes on where those notes were in relation to over/around the pickup.

Re the zero fret, the February issue of Guitar Player has a "Dan Erlewine's Mod Squad" article about it. It does mention Gretsch as the pioneer of the concept. They milled the new part from aluminum bar stock to make a "zero fret nut" that would be a tad taller than the frets.
They used aluminum for its tone effect. (Apparently Danelectros had some unique tone because Dano used aluminum for nuts and/or bridge saddles.)

[UnklMickey]

johnh said:

unklmickey said:

i think MOST guitars have exactly one fret too few.

the one they're missing is the 0 fret.

unk

Unk - I have one guitar with a zero fret (just in front of the nut), which is a Shergold. In principle it gives a nice consistent low action. An issue with it though is that it wears alot quicker than the other frets, because the string seems to wear it down on a single consistent spot wheras the other frets wear more evenly.

A normal nut however, does not seem to wear in the same way, since the strings are supported all round in a groove rather than just bearing at their edge onto a zero fret.

John

the only guitar i have right now with a zero fret has a hofner neck.

it does have a bit of grooves on zero. my guess is that this occurs during restringing and tuning. the strings move longitudinally then. they sort of abrade the fret when that happens. it doesn't seem to be so severe as to cause a buzz though.

as much of a pain as it is cutting a nut, IMHO it's worth reworking the frets more often.

the levelling would be SO much easier when you remove the nut.

re-installing a passive nut is non-critical. slight changes in height and/or longitudinal positon are meaningless.

unk

[mike]

I have guitars with 21 to 24 frets and it doesn't mater to me, if they are there, I'll use them.

[mike]

bam said:

speaking about the 24th fret .. does anyone know a song in which the guitarist uses the 24th fret, 6th string ?

I don't know of any, but when playing lead, if I feel it I'll get down there.

[bam]

speaking about "zero frets", aren't Floyd-rose nuts (and its copies) are both simpler and tougher, and has the (almost) same tone characteristics to the zero fret ? (they're made of metal, right ?) and speaking about leveling, undoubtedly using neck shims are easier than refretting. And also in these types of nuts, the strings are perfectly fixed in place.

..just a humble personal opinion, of course.

[dunkelfalke]

a wilkinson roller nut should be even more like a zero fret because of its form ;-D

[GuyaGuy]

bam said:

speaking about "zero frets", aren't Floyd-rose nuts (and its copies) are both simpler and tougher, and has the (almost) same tone characteristics to the zero fret ? (they're made of metal, right ?) and speaking about leveling, undoubtedly using neck shims are easier than refretting. And also in these types of nuts, the strings are perfectly fixed in place.

..just a humble personal opinion, of course.

no, the Floyd is the exact opposite of the zero fret.

the idea behind the zero fret is fluid movement. the grooves in the nut can be left looser; they are there merely to prevent the string from sliding from left to right. the strings barely sit on the nut, instead resting on the zero fret. this allows fluid movement and prevents snagging at the nut. so it's actually closer to the roller nut--albeit much less mechanically involved.

the Floyd, on the other hand, is based on a locking system, as you know--the exact opposite of fluid movement.

[GuyaGuy]

dunkelfalke said:

david gilmour - marooned. goes up to the 29th fret.

you know you're a guitar god when you're playing the 29th fret!

;D

[bam]

oOo... thanks, Guya. I'll add them into my archives.

[beckerologly]

Cacophony - Go Off - bends 24th fret 1 1/2 steps....
buckethead and vai use them alot with tappng, often tapping octaves and big intervals