Help wiring hss with dpdt

[vaisteve]

Hi!! I currently buyed a dimarzio dark matter humbucker and 2 area 61 and a 2 way on/on dpdt, 1 volume 1 tone 5way switch . I need help to wire for series parallel...Can't find any diagram!!...Thanks!

[newey]

vs-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Nov 1, 2020 14:47:56 GMT -5 vaisteve said:

I need help to wire for series parallel...Can't find any diagram!!...Thanks!

Do you mean that you want the DPDT On-On switch to swith the two coils of the humbucker between series and parallel? Or, are you wanting to have series/parallel options between the various pickups?

Also, what is the 5-way switch going to be doing? Normal Strat wiring? Or are you planning to use it to "auto-split" the humbucker to single coil at posittion #2?

We'll be happy to help, but we'll need to "zero in" a bit better on exactly what you want.

[vaisteve]

Hi!! Thanks for helping and the welcome.

What I wish is to split so I can have that "normal" strat single/ single/ single configuration. So I can have both worlds hss & sss or close to that. The 5 way is a normal strat wiring!

Thanks

[newey]

OK, now you've raised more questions . . .

The Area 61s are a "stacked coil" design for hum cancelling. These can be split to single coil, but you would need to split only to the top coil, as the bottom coil by itself will have so little output as not to be useful (at least in my opinion). Since both top coils are identical, when you split both the neck and middle to single coil, it won't be hum-cancelling. We could select either coil of the Dark Matter at the bridge, so that the middle + bridge combo would be hum-cancelling. The lack of hum-cancellation at N + M isn't necessarily a deal-killer, but something to consider.

SO, what I'm understanding is that you want the DPDT switch to split all 3 pickups to single coil simultaneously? This can be done, but originally you asked about series/parallel. So, are you dropping the request for any sort of series/parallel combos and just asking for coil-splitting?

And, are you wanting to split the Area 61s, too, or just the humbucker?

[vaisteve]

Nov 1, 2020 20:46:08 GMT -5 newey said:

OK, now you've raised more questions . . .

The Area 61s are a "stacked coil" design for hum cancelling. These can be split to single coil, but you would need to split only to the top coil, as the bottom coil by itself will have so little output as not to be useful (at least in my opinion). Since both top coils are identical, when you split both the neck and middle to single coil, it won't be hum-cancelling. We could select either coil of the Dark Matter at the bridge, so that the middle + bridge combo would be hum-cancelling. The lack of hum-cancellation at N + M isn't necessarily a deal-killer, but something to consider.

SO, what I'm understanding is that you want the DPDT switch to split all 3 pickups to single coil simultaneously? This can be done, but originally you asked about series/parallel. So, are you dropping the request for any sort of series/parallel combos and just asking for coil-splitting?

And, are you wanting to split the Area 61s, too, or just the humbucker?

Ok!!! My goal is to have a guitar with this normal hss configuration, and with the dpdt switch I want to have the best way you think I can get those classic strat tones without noise!? The guitar it self is a highway one strat...!!! If possible the easiest way to wire...!!! Sorry I'm a newbie I just know how to solder!!

[Yogi B]

Nov 2, 2020 2:28:35 GMT -5 vaisteve said:

Ok!!! My goal is to have a guitar with this normal hss configuration, and with the dpdt switch I want to have the best way you think I can get those classic strat tones without noise!? The guitar it self is a highway one strat...!!! If possible the easiest way to wire...!!! Sorry I'm a newbie I just know how to solder!!

Just spitballing a couple of different ideas for the others to review. Both should be possible with a regular Strat switch & DPDT and will be hum-cancelling (or close to it) in all positions.

Use a modified series/parallel switch for the bridge, that inserts a resistor (or trimmer) in series with the bridge coils when in parallel mode. Hum-cancellation is maintained with the parallel bridge pickup and the middle & neck are left as they are. The additional resistance is to try and better balance the SSS position 2 (parallel bridge + middle).

Alternatively, use the DPDT to split the bridge pickup to whichever coil has the same polarity to that of the upper coils of the Area 61s (I believe this should be the north coil* it actually appears that it is the south coil), but connect that split coil to the series link of the middle (or possibly neck) pickup. Thereby leveraging the lower 'hum-cancelation coil' of the chosen Area 61 pickup for use with the split bridge, in both positions 1 & 2 of the SSS mode. This will likely be not quite as fully hum-cancelling as the previous option, however it may possibly more accurately produce the tone that you're seeking.

(*: Based on the assumption that DiMarzio's wire colours are consistent between their regular HBs and their stacked coils.)

---

Edit: I was a daft to assume that a pickup company would be 'logical', or at least intuitive, by being consistent in maintaining their own colour code across their own pickups. After looking at DiMarzio's wiring diagrams, in order to wire a ('split') coil of their humbuckers in phase and hum-cancelling with one of their stacked 'single' coils you'd need: for the traditional humbucker's north coil -- black to hot, red to ground; whereas, for the stacked pickup's upper (south) coil -- red to hot, black to ground. So not only are the colours swapped between the two coils, but also their phasing is reversed.

I'm basing this correction on measurement that my Area 67 & Injector pickups are (all) south-up and this wiring diagram

[vaisteve]

Nov 2, 2020 5:33:37 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Nov 2, 2020 2:28:35 GMT -5 vaisteve said:

Ok!!! My goal is to have a guitar with this normal hss configuration, and with the dpdt switch I want to have the best way you think I can get those classic strat tones without noise!? The guitar it self is a highway one strat...!!! If possible the easiest way to wire...!!! Sorry I'm a newbie I just know how to solder!!

Just spitballing a couple of different ideas for the others to review. Both should be possible with a regular Strat switch & DPDT and will be hum-cancelling (or close to it) in all positions.

Use a modified series/parallel switch for the bridge, that inserts a resistor (or trimmer) in series with the bridge coils when in parallel mode. Hum-cancellation is maintained with the parallel bridge pickup and the middle & neck are left as they are. The additional resistance is to try and better balance the SSS position 2 (parallel bridge + middle).

Alternatively, use the DPDT to split the bridge pickup to whichever coil has the same polarity to that of the upper coils of the Area 61s (I believe this should be the north coil*), but connect that split coil to the series link of the middle (or possibly neck) pickup. Thereby leveraging the lower 'hum-cancelation coil' of the chosen Area 61 pickup for use with the split bridge, in both positions 1 & 2 of the SSS mode. This will likely be not quite as fully hum-cancelling as the previous option, however it may possibly more accurately produce the tone that you're seeking.

(*: Based on the assumption that DiMarzio's wire colours are consistent between their regular HBs and their stacked coils.)

Thanks guys I was thinking and the easy way is to have normal hss ( bridge hb)/(bridge hb +middle)/ (middle)/ (middle+ neck)/ (neck) and with dpdt switch split the bridge to have ( bridge sc)/ (bridge sc +middle)/ (middle)/ (bridge sc+ neck)/ (neck) ...?!

[newey]

All of that was possible until we got to:

with dpdt switch split the bridge to have ( bridge sc)/ (bridge sc +middle)/ (middle)/ (bridge sc+ neck)/ (neck) ...?!

A regular 5-way switch cannot get you Bridge + neck at position 4, whether the HB is split or not (at least, not if you have middle alone at position 3). On a regular 5-way switch, Position 4 is always a combination of whatever you have wired to Position 3 and Position 5, (just as Position 2 always combines 1 and 3) You would need a Superswitch (or similar switch) to do exactly what you want to do.

If you use the DPDT switch to split the bridge, with a regular 5-way switch, you would get: Bridge SC/Bridge SC+Middle/middle/Middle+neck/neck

This would require only one pole of the DPDT switch, so you could use that switch to do 2 things at once- split the bridge to single coil and also turn the bridge SC "on" regardless of the position of the 5-way switch, giving you:

Bridge SC/Bridge SC+ Middle/Bridge SC + Middle/Bridge SC + Middle+ Neck/Bridge SC + neck

[vaisteve]

Nov 2, 2020 16:52:56 GMT -5 newey said:

All of that was possible until we got to:

with dpdt switch split the bridge to have ( bridge sc)/ (bridge sc +middle)/ (middle)/ (bridge sc+ neck)/ (neck) ...?!

A regular 5-way switch cannot get you Bridge + neck at position 4, whether the HB is split or not (at least, not if you have middle alone at position 3). On a regular 5-way switch, Position 4 is always a combination of whatever you have wired to Position 3 and Position 5, (just as Position 2 always combines 1 and 3) You would need a Superswitch (or similar switch) to do exactly what you want to do.

If you use the DPDT switch to split the bridge, with a regular 5-way switch, you would get: Bridge SC/Bridge SC+Middle/middle/Middle+neck/neck

This would require only one pole of the DPDT switch, so you could use that switch to do 2 things at once- split the bridge to single coil and also turn the bridge SC "on" regardless of the position of the 5-way switch, giving you:

Bridge SC/Bridge SC+ Middle/Bridge SC + Middle/Bridge SC + Middle+ Neck/Bridge SC + neck

Let's go with that last option "Bridge SC/Bridge SC+ Middle/Bridge SC + Middle/Bridge SC + Middle+ Neck/Bridge SC + neck", now I need to know what wires go where!! Because I've seen some diagrams and most of those are made for people who knows where some wires go, that's not my case at all..!! Thanks a lot for your patience!!!

[newey]

OK, here is a module to do just that. None of the other wiring changes, the V and T pots, 5-way switch all stay exactly as they would be (If your guitar is not already wired, DiMarzio's website has a diagram for 2 Area 61s and a Dark Matter with a 5-way switch you can use).

As I have drawn it, the diagram splits to the Dark Matter's South coil (The green/white wire pair). Since the Dark Matter has adjustable pole pieces on both coils, there is no "Screw coil" or "slug coil" as with regular HBs. DiMarzio's website is distinctly uninformative on this, so we have no way of knowing whether this will split to the coil nearest the neck or nearest the bridge; if it matters to you, you can simply leave enough slack in the wires so you can rotate the pickup 180° to reposition the coils. You would need to test the wires with a meter to see which coil is which.

Note that which coil is cut won't matter as far as hum-cancellation, since the Area 61s are HBs and are not being split.

[vaisteve]

Thanks a lot..!!!

I will tell you how it went...!!!

[newey]

Hold on a sec, that diagram is wrong, I posted the wrong one. This will split the bridge, but not in all positions.

[newey]

vaisteve:

Here is the correct diagram. This should do what you want.

[vaisteve]

Ok no problem...I haven't start yet

[vaisteve]

Nov 3, 2020 9:42:33 GMT -5 newey said:

vaisteve :

Here is the correct diagram. This should do what you want.

Sorry to bother you again ... but I'm a newbie so I need to know where each wire comes and goes ... !!! I already said that I only know how to weld. Thank you again!!!

[newey]

Is the guitar already wired or do you need a complete wiring diagram for the whole thing?

[vaisteve]

Nov 3, 2020 12:33:32 GMT -5 newey said:

Is the guitar already wired or do you need a complete wiring diagram for the whole thing?

I need a complete wiring...!!

[newey]

OK, may take me a few days. As I said, Dimarzio has a Strat diagram for a bridge Dark Matter and 2 Area 61s we can use as a starting point. Only difference id it has 2 tone controls, you just have one, so yours will be a bit simpler to strat, then we'll fit the coil-cut switch in there.

[vaisteve]

Nov 3, 2020 17:34:58 GMT -5 newey said:

OK, may take me a few days. As I said, Dimarzio has a Strat diagram for a bridge Dark Matter and 2 Area 61s we can use as a starting point. Only difference id it has 2 tone controls, you just have one, so yours will be a bit simpler to strat, then we'll fit the coil-cut switch in there.

No problem... I'll wait...!! 

[newey]

OK, here you go. I think this is OK, but let's await someone else to verify this. A few notes:

1) This is based on a copyrighted diagram I "borrowed" from DiMarzio's website. Hopefully, they won't object too much, since you went out and bought their pickups!

2) On the volume pot, the diagram shows a cap + resistor "treble bleed". This is optional, but many people are fans of treble-bleed circuitry, which helps preserve treble as you turn down the volume. However, the values suggested for the cap and resistor are DiMarzio's suggested values. After some pretty extensive research, JohnH would recommend instead a 150KΩ resistor and a 1nF (nanofarads).

3) I haven't shown the pickups themselves on the diagram, but each pickup wire is labeled as to where it goes. Also, the bridge/string ground is not shown, but gets wired to a ground point, which are shown as being on the backs of the pots in this diagram.

[vaisteve]

Nov 4, 2020 6:45:48 GMT -5 newey said:

OK, here you go. I think this is OK, but let's await someone else to verify this. A few notes:

1) This is based on a copyrighted diagram I "borrowed" from DiMarzio's website. Hopefully, they won't object too much, since you went out and bought their pickups!

2) On the volume pot, the diagram shows a cap + resistor "treble bleed". This is optional, but many people are fans of treble-bleed circuitry, which helps preserve treble as you turn down the volume. However, the values suggested for the cap and resistor are DiMarzio's suggested values. After some pretty extensive research, JohnH would recommend instead a 150KΩ resistor and a 1nF (nanofarads).

3) I haven't shown the pickups themselves on the diagram, but each pickup wire is labeled as to where it goes. Also, the bridge/string ground is not shown, but gets wired to a ground point, which are shown as being on the backs of the pots in this diagram.

Thank you so much!!! This save me...hope it will for lots of guitars players etc...!!! Lets expect someone to verify !!! Thank you

[vaisteve]

i guys just to say i think everything went well with wirings!!! Anyone knows how can i test witch pickups are running in each switch selection? Thanks

[JohnH]

Tap tests: just plug in, switch on and tap the pickup pole-pieces lightly and carefully with a screwdriver tip to hear a tap if its on.

This will be very clear as a way of testing if a pickup is on or off. But note that with a humbucker set to single-coil, you should get a strong result from the coil that is on but may get a smaller tap sound from the other coils poles, even if it is off. This ok and its is because they are coupled magnetically.

[vaisteve]

Nov 7, 2020 18:24:20 GMT -5 JohnH said:

Tap tests: just plug in, switch on and tap the pickup pole-pieces lightly and carefully with a screwdriver tip to hear a tap if its on.

This will be very clear as a way of testing if a pickup is on or off. But note that with a humbucker set to single-coil, you should get a strong result from the coil that is on but may get a smaller tap sound from the other coils poles, even if it is off. This ok and its is because they are coupled magnetically.

Thanks