Post by andeeeroooo on Feb 21, 2021 15:05:36 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I’m also looking to re-wire a single humbucker guitar, (Epiphone LP junior) I thought it would be cool to incorporate as many tone switching features as possible ( coil split, phase or series-parallel, tone cap switching like mini-varitone). I have been looking for a diagram for something like this, but haven’t really seen anything. Any suggestions? My thought was to use 2 push-pull pots to replace volume and tone knobs, and add a mini toggle switch in between them as well. I’m thinking volume/ coil split, tone/phase or series-parallel, mini toggle or 3,4, or 5 way switch to select tone capacitors. Possibly a rotary switch like a varitone would be an option, but mini toggle would probably work out best with the wiring cavity space limitations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Anyone who is interested in creating some type of diagram would be a huge help, I understand the basic pickup wiring and how to wire the push-pull pots ( I recently did a volume with phase switch) , but the multi- capacitor switching is a little unfamiliar for me. Thanks!
Hi Andeee, You certainly could swap out your present harness for two push pull pots and also could do a cap switch for different tones. So, you have looked on YouTube (or guitar websites) and got a clear hear of a coil split or a pickup out of phase or in series?
I like a coil split and series with a setup like yours. The mini toggle would do the 3-way tone. Or you could do a phase instead. Even though it’s one pickup, you still have options.
What usually happens around here is a guy takes a stab at drawing out a wiring diagram and then various folks pitch in to help make it right. Once you decide on what you want, try drawing it out in any form and post it. Then you’ll get the help you need to get it to fruition.
Post by andeeeroooo on Feb 21, 2021 18:53:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice, Frets. I have seen one or two videos, like the ultimate Epiphone one where a guy re-wires a Les Paul with Duncan P-rails pickups, but it probably would be good to nail down exactly what I want to do. I actually have a guitar with 2 Humbuckers and coil splits already, so I know I like the sounds of that. I’m planning on trying a switch to switch the phase of one of the coils in the pickup, or change the the series- parallel configuration of the 2 coils in the pup for the other push-pull pot. My question is really about what is possible with capacitors and a mini toggle switch or push-pull pot switch, I guess. What would be better to use if I want as many different sounds as possible? I would think the mini toggle, I have an on-off-on to use, could yield 3 different capacitor configurations, correct? Are there any other components required, such as resistors that would be needed? Thanks
The wiring is nothing too elaborate, a push/pull on the Vol pot switches the HB from series to parallel, and the tone control splits the HB to single coil when turned to 10, full HB at 9 or less. But I need to rewire that as it doesn't work properly with the P/P set to parallel. Built it now 7 years ago and still never rewired it. I find that the single coil isn't as usable as the parallel HB setting, so I'm just going to eliminate it. Split HB coils work better with higher output pickups, and my LPJ is pretty mild in that department.
I replaced the stock HB pickup with a GFS "Memphis" Filtertron clone- a vast improvement over the stock HB, which sounded sort of "brittle", didn't seem to have much character or sweetness to it. I also replaced the tuning heads with GFS ones, the vintage Gibson greenish-looking ones, as well as replacing the bridge with a Stew-Mac adjustable replacement.
While pickup slelection is largely a matter of taste, I highly recommend replacing the heads and the bridge. The stock bridge isn't adjustable, so intonation is a bit of a crapshoot, so mine now intonates properly and the tuning stability is much improved. This was a $99 guitar when I bought it, and between the bridge, tuners and pickup (the push/pull pot was laying around, didn't have to buy one), I've probably put another $120 into it, but it sounds good and plays well now.
As far as getting the most possible out of a single pickup, well, I'm onboard with that. I have several single-pickup electrics. My Esquire-ish Tele-thing has the standard Esquire wiring, where the 3-way switch in one position engages a cap for a bassier tone, and in the other setting bypasses the V and T pots for a brighter tone. I have a single P90-equipped travel guitar that wired with a 3-position On-On-On DPDT mini-toggle in a similar fashion:
So, not much more you can do, it's not even a HB, just one coil.
BTW, I've tried putting the coils of a HB OOP with one another, and I don't find it useable. Of course, opinions differ. But OOP works better when the coils are further separated, so there is less cancellation of frequencies. When the two coils of a HB, right next to each other, are put OOP, there's so much cancellation that the drop in output is significant. But hey, try it and see if you like it.
Post by andeeeroooo on Feb 22, 2021 1:54:45 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help, I appreciate everybody’s input. Thanks to Newey, I’m with you on the hardware and pickup replacement, I’m replacing the tuners, wraparound bridge to adjustable, new pickup. I think that I would agree about the series-parallel vs phase switch, I’ve never found the out of phase sound something that I use a lot. I can appreciate your advice about the Filtertron, that was my other pickup choice and I love my Electromatic 😀 I actually bought a second hand Gretsch HS FilterTron for that guitar or the next project. I’ll check that out , Thanks for the heads-up about GFS, I’d love to use a 4-wire FilterTron type pickup. All the advice about tone switching and even the single pickup, single coil wiring has me thinking. I am definitely going to go with the one volume/ coil split, 1 tone/ series-parallel, and a mini toggle switch to do 3-way cap switching. Going to try the “” Free woman tone”, and the other threads you linked gave me some inspiration . You guys are awesome , keep on doing what you’re doing.
Yeah OoP is just a non-starter. It won’t be “the out of phase sound” that you’ve experienced before. It’ll be almost nothing coming from the strings but all of the hum of two coils added together. I make noise on purpose and still wouldn’t find that position useful.
And I figure S/P is obvious. Frankly, I’d probably go with series/split/parallel. Well, I mean, I have...
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the potential for “broadbucker” tones. We generally do that by putting an individual tone control across one (or each) of the coils, but of course it could be on a switch or whatever. The idea is that as the treble of the one coil is shunted, the other is allowed to bypass the inductance of the first coil, so you end up with something like series low end with single coil top. Of course it only really works when in series mode. In parallel, it’ll just be a master tone. When the pickup is split, I guess it would depend on which coil you put this thing across, BUT this control could actually be used to do the splitting, which would free up a switch to do something else.
Post by andeeeroooo on Feb 22, 2021 13:57:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I’d have to agree with you about out of Phase. Not really my favorite thing on a two pickup guitar, anyway. My first electric guitar I ever owned 30 years ago was a Squire telecaster with some type of humbucker in the neck, and a phase push-pull switch. Never really liked that sound. Last week I replaced the broken volume knob on a cheap bass and for S and G‘s tried to wire in a push-pull to make a phase switch between the two pick ups, just to see if I could do it right, and it sounded like garbage. A bass with no bass. LOL It works, and I accomplished what I set out to do, but no real usable results there. 😂
Anyway, thanks for your advice, I may try that broad bucker mod in the future, but now I have my heart set on coil split, series – parallel, and two capacitors on a mini toggle on-off-on. Plus I’m still struggling to find a good app to use to draw the schematic out. Are hand drawn schematics acceptable? LOL My next trick is going to be put a FilterTron in a cheap LP junior anyway, found another for $70 on OfferUp. Thanks again!
There are things like Half Out of Phase (HOoP) where you keep some of the bass and only the higher frequencies get the comb filtering, and Series Out of Phase (SOoP) is louder and darker than standard Parallel Out of Phase (POoP). Both can be useful in certain situations, but they both still require the coils to be further apart than in any single HB.
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2021 14:26:44 GMT -5 by ashcatlt
What do you guys think of the following? It would take two switches. I’ve done this one before, it turned out well; but, I’d really like your thoughts on it, especially given what Ash thinks of the Out-Of-Phase. Wouldn’t this be more of a “Reverse Phase.” That has always confused me as to the difference.
Anyway, I digress, Andeee😸, I’ve got some diagrams up on the site for 3-Way Push Pull Varitones. It basically does the same as the “Woman Tone”.
I thought we were talking about putting one coil out of phase with the other. That’s not a good idea in a single HB for the reasons discussed above. Inverting the entire thing is even less useful because absolute phase is arbitrary. If you play something, stop, flip that switch, you’ll hear absolutely no change. The one time it might be useful is if you’re really cranked up and you’re holding a note and it’s being reinforced into feedback from the amp and you flip the switch it might cause the held note to break to a harmonic. Often you can get that same effect just by moving the guitar with respect to the speaker, and unless you’re really trying to do that all the time, it’s kind of a waste of a switch.
Post by andeeeroooo on Apr 26, 2021 16:13:44 GMT -5
Alright alright, finally got it figured out and drawn out ( sort of ) . First person who can decipher my handwritten scheme wins a free guitar!! ( just kidding) Anyway, until I can find a useable iPhone app to draw this stuff, here’s what you get....
andeeeroooo, your image is out to coffee/can’t be seen.
Note: Images here have a 500-pixel-max-width.
EDIT: I’ve found that the simplest way to post a large image is to use the “Resize-it” app from the App Store (the black logo Resize-it app is free). Just open whatever image in Resize-it and then after making sure the linked image is highlighted, replace the image width with 500; the height should change automatically. 🙂
Then I have to transfer the image to my PC and upload it here with the POST-Image, I think that’s what it’s called, button.
Post by andeeeroooo on Jun 17, 2021 16:34:06 GMT -5
Awesome guitar. Is that the bolt-on one, and how much did you pick it up for? I had some good luck finding two of the black ones on OfferUp for &40 and $50. The second one I’m gonna do with a Gretsch FilterTron, I have the pickup and enough parts to get started if I ever finish the first one......
Yes, it's the bolt-on neck. My old guitar tech guy (since deceased) had it in his shop with a $99 price tag, it was basically brand new condition, barely used. At that time, Musician's Friend had new ones for $130 or so, so I thought it was a pretty good deal. My tech liked to swap stuff for his store, so IIRC I paid him like $50 and gave him a Peavey practice amp that I wasn't using.
I've never been a big fan of actual LP guitars, too heavy and not a big fan of the HH sound. But the LPJ is nice and light, sounds good with the GFS Retrotron. It's become one of my go-to guitars (I have a dozen or so, but only about 4 are played in heavy rotation.)
Please show your work when you're done, just like in Math class . . .
This reminds me, I don't know how those pix got so big, I should go back and resize the pictures a bit.