trying to change replace pick ups in 86 charvel model4

[chickenlicka]

i have a 1986 charvel model 4 that i gutted the pick ups and everything but the 3- spdt switches i have hss seymore duncans but ive try several times to wire these 3 switches up. these are spdt on/on i have 1- vol. 2-tone 500k i was trying to find someone who could build me a complete harness but not many out there that i know. ive been work on this for 2 days and only got a lil out of bridge and middle

[newey]

chickenlicka-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

I wouldn't have known what a "1986 Charvel Model 4" was, specifically- I can certainly recognize a Charvel/Jackson guitar, but I could't recite the various models, years etc. So I consulted Vintage Guitar Magazine:
www.vintageguitar.com/15981/the-charvel-model-4

and learned that:

"The Model 4 was at the top of the bolt-neck line, with the same hardware and active electronics as the 6. Its thin, quartersawn rock maple neck has a satin finish and a wide, flat fingerboard. The body is basswood – medium weight, but solid. The single-coils are Jackson J200s; the humbucker a J50BC with “accentuated high frequency.” Like most good active pickup systems, it has a clean, wide frequency response with no noise. The toggles are on/off for each pickup, the vibrato is a Kahler Standard, and controls are one Volume, one Tone, and a pre-amp midrange boost/cut."

So, first off, I hope you saved the original parts for this guitar, so that it can be put back to stock at some point. These '80's vintage Japanese-made metalhead axes are starting to go up in value. Just like all the Jimi-wannabes from my generation drove '69 Strat prices through the roof once we got older and had the money to revisit the fantasies of our youth, so too will the EVH wannabes do with '80s stuff like yours. Unless it was previously ratted, of course- in which case, have at it.

Anyway, as per the above, this guitar originally had active electronics. Are you keeping the active bits here, or converting it to strictly passive with the new SD pickups? And, you don't (or didn't) have 2 tone controls- one was an active preamp mid-boost knob. Are you trying to reuse that? Or, are you trying to reuse that pot? And, was the guitar operating properly before you took it apart?

Also, if you want 2 tone pots, to which pickups are these going to be wired?

If all you want to do is have a passive HSS set-up with the on/off switches for each pickup, that should be fairly straightforward. A diagram of how you have it wired at present would probably help us troubleshoot it, at least as to any issues with your wiring. What we can't do over the Web is check your components for proper operation or check your soldering. If you are re-using the old switches, those should be checked (with a multimeter) to be sure they are still good, likewise if you are reusing old pots. As far as soldering errors, a multimeter can sometimes help "zero in" on where the issue lies. But before we get any further into this, answers to the above questions would help.

[chickenlicka]

well here we go i have new 500k pots a500k and 2-b500k tones. installed the 3 switches back spdt on/on {that might be my problem} the on/on. i have 2 of these bad boys and the 1200 went out on my 1st one so i replaced but this one just went out so i have 1 hum-pearly gate and 2 ss lil deamons and wired it 3 times from folks telling me try this so any help is greatly appreciated.

[newey]

OK, still don't know what you want the 2 tone pots to be doing. As for the wiring, OK, completely passive, then.

So, your wiring should be as follows:

Green wires all go to ground. Red and white wires for each pickup are wired togehter and the connection wrapped with tape.

Black wires from each pickup go that pickup's on/off switch. the other lugs of each on/off switch will go to the V and T controls, but we need to know how you want the tone controls to work before we can finalize that part. Middle lug of the volume control goes to the output jack tip connection, output jack sleeve is wired to your grounding point.

Is that how you have it now?

[chickenlicka]

1st tone to neck and 2nd to middle with hum no tone control my biggest problem is getting the 3 spdt switches to work independent of ech other sw 1 neck sw2 middle sw3 bridge these switches are on/on should i replace with on/off/on            
this is how i had it before- neck on 1st switch on middle leg then wire from there to 1st leg of 2nd tone next the middle pick up on 2nd switch on the middle leg of switch then from there to middle leg of 1st tone then the bridge to middle leg of 3rd switch then from 1st leg of 3rd switch [thata the humbuker] to 1st leg og volume  then off same leg to other 2 swiches on their 1st legs then the 3rd leg of switches connet together then ground off on to of vol. control and then all 3 controls are grounded together on top of each other then output jack plus to middle leg of vol then other to ground then the 1st tone gets a ,o22 on right leg of tone then right leg of vol grounds off on top of vol control ad last is a jumper wire from 2nd tone middle leg the side with the .022 on it and thats it.

[chickenlicka]

also the 2 tones face each othere like strats

[newey]

Apr 24, 2021 5:32:31 GMT -5 chickenlicka said:

this is how i had it before- neck on 1st switch on middle leg then wire from there to 1st leg of 2nd tone next the middle pick up on 2nd switch on the middle leg of switch then from there to middle leg of 1st tone then the bridge to middle leg of 3rd switch then from 1st leg of 3rd switch [thata the humbuker] to 1st leg og volume  then off same leg to other 2 swiches on their 1st legs then the 3rd leg of switches connet together then ground off on to of vol. control and then all 3 controls are grounded together on top of each other then output jack plus to middle leg of vol then other to ground then the 1st tone gets a ,o22 on right leg of tone then right leg of vol grounds off on top of vol control ad last is a jumper wire from 2nd tone middle leg the side with the .022 on it and thats it.

That's one big long sentence, and impossible to follow. From what I can gather, there are just 2 lugs on each switch, correct? In any event, a diagram of how you have it wired would be much better than a verbal description.

There would be no reason to change the switches unless you wanted to do some other type of wiring. If all you want is on-off for each pickup, the switches you have should be fine, provided they work properly.

[chickenlicka]

yea sorry for that book the 3 switches have 3 legs on each switch lil mini toggles spdt 120v 6a so i have 3 500k controls 1 vol 2 tones at this point i would be happy with it working like a strat. 5 way switch and it doesnt matter if tones work all 3 or just 2 im trying to just have them where each sw. controls each pick up

[newey]

So, you said tone controls for middle and neck pups, none on the bridge. Using SD wiring colors, here's my take on this wiring. Is this what you have?

Note that I have omitted some ground connections for clarity. I show the tone caps and V pot grounded to the pot shells, for example, but I omitted ground connections between the pot shells. If you use the backs of pots for grounding (I don't), you will need to connect the pot shells to ground. If you use a star-grounding scheme, then those will connect to your star grounding point. I also omitted the bridge/string ground.



As I said before, given that you are having problems, I would recommend testing your components before re-wiring this once again.

[chickenlicka]

i like what i see and will do this today thanks and i will contact you when done.

[chickenlicka]

lots of noise and low vol. didnt work

[unreg]

Apr 24, 2021 16:07:06 GMT -5 chickenlicka said:

lots of noise and low vol. didnt work

Hope it’s ok for me to interject. Did you ground the pot cases as newey suggested?

Check the wires to each pot with multimeter (low Resistance reading near, or at, 0.0 shows your soldered wire has “strong” excellent conductivity). If a solder connection is “weak” on the middle lug of your volume pot, that could cause low volume.

[chickenlicka]

i think although these 3-switches are good they are on/on im gonna try getting 3- minis with on/off and hooking that up with the diagram and see if that is the problem. ill let you know how that comes out. thanks

[chickenlicka]

i do have a question on the switches u show is that 2 pin or your showing middle and bottom pin on 3-switches.

[newey]

OK, let's not go off in 10 different directions looking for new switches until we can figure out what's going on here. I was assuming these were simple SPST On-Off switches, as your verbal description was only referencing 2 lugs per switch. If the switches have 3 lugs, they are likely SPDT On-On switches already.

lots of noise and low vol. didnt work

OK, this suggests that you may have reversed the connections at the jack. Easy mistake to make, and equally easy to check.

If those connections are right, we'll have to move on from there to cehcking your switches to be sure of the type they are. Do you have a multimeter (or can you borrow a friends?). If so, please disconnect one of the switches from the wiring and check its operation.

i do have a question on the switches u show is that 2 pin or your showing middle and bottom pin on 3-switches

Again, I was assuming a different type of switch. Our two posts stepped on each other- I was posting the diagram as you were describing the switches. But if the ones you have are SPDT On-On switches, then your assumption there would work- center and lower lugs, leaving the top one unwired.

[chickenlicka]

after a walkawy im back at it and im gonna restart with the knowledge i now have from you so illhit u up if it turns good. ill be checkeing and double checking this time thanks

[chickenlicka]

after a pro looked at it my brand new lil demon wire is cut and 1 side the middle switch is bad so i turned over to a repair man and ordered new pick up hopefully i can repair the pick up.as far as switch only need to flip around to other side.

[newey]

Apr 27, 2021 10:06:32 GMT -5 chickenlicka said:

my brand new lil demon wire is cut and 1 side the middle switch is bad

That's why I asked earlier as to whether you had checked the switches. Live and learn, you can't assume that even new components are good. If you rewire things in the future, always check each component, including the pickups, before you wire it in.

I once had a brand new switch that was internally shorting out, I didn't check it beforehand since it was brand new. Took me days of troubleshooting before I thought to check that switch. Now, I check everything, it only takes a second and saves a lot of potential grief later on.

If the pickup wire is cut right at the coil connection, it can be tricky to repair. If it came that way from the factory and was never installed, you may be able to return it to SD, unless you bought it a while ago. You should at least talk to them and see what they say before you try a repair.

[chickenlicka]

hi had to replace the 100.00 pick up wire broke and board cracked on bottom of pick up i dropped cracked a piece of end so bought new then 2 of them cheap butt pots i bought from far far away and ill never buy anymore like them and 2 of the switches but i was able to turn them so the wire system is deep. but easy after u do it ill draw up a pic of the wire system but i have to say wow just wow this guitar screams then it purrs then it screams hss 1 hum pearly gate 2- lil demons thanks for your help last week. 1 thing i learn out of this dont by cheap parts use top of line the only way to go. 3.00 pot is no match for a 14.00 pot its worth the money.