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Post by asmith on Jul 30, 2021 16:03:53 GMT -5
Your honor, To the left, Exhibit A: The 'Wilkinson' tuning pegs that came installed in the Les Paul copy. To the right, Exhibit B: Six 'Schaller' tuning pegs that my client would like to install into the guitar.  Below: the scene of the crime, from front and reverse angles.   As you can see from the photos, the Wilkinson tuning pegs fitted into the metal cylinders currently jammed into the guitar headstock. Alas, the Schaller pegs are too wide for those cylinders. In fact, the Schaller pegs each come with their own cylinder. Those Schaller cylinders look like they screw into the headstock from the front and secure their corresponding tuning pegs in the wood. My question: Is it worth trying to remove the Wilkinson cylinders from the headstock? Or am I likely to damage the headstock no matter how careful I am, and I should just say "Game Over" and re-install the Wilkinsons? Thanks in advance |
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Post by thetragichero on Jul 30, 2021 19:50:04 GMT -5
yes you definitely want to remove the old bushings. i'm sure there's a right way to do it but i just rest the headstock face down on say a towel over a workbench (i just do it in my lap but i'm reckless), put a flathead screwdriver on the part of the bushing inside the hole, and whack the end of the screwdrive a few times in different spots with a rubber mallet to loosen it. once it's loose it'll either fall out or you can push a bit with the screwdrive to fall out
your new toothed bushings should thread right onto the outer shaft of the tuner
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Post by Yogi B on Jul 30, 2021 20:47:30 GMT -5
In fact, the Schaller pegs each come with their own cylinder. Those Schaller cylinders look like they screw into the headstock from the front and secure their corresponding tuning pegs in the wood. You've not shown the tuning posts of the Schallers, but unless they're doing something new & different, those bushings screw into the body of the tuners, rather than the headstock. Typically the hole required for push-in bushings is about 8mm in diameter, and the outer diameter of the threaded portion of screw-in bushings is the same. This therefore means that a rear section of the tuner post is wider to accommodate the internal thread that mates with the screw-in bushing, typically 10mm diameter extending roughly 8mm-10mm into the headstock. So, providing my assumptions thus far are correct, installing the Schallers will require enlarging the peg holes. You could drill/file/ream the entire depth through the headstock, such that the 10mm body of the tuner fits, but that would mean the 8mm diameter of the bushing wouldn't be snug within the larger hole. This could potentially have negative mechanical effects due to the strong sideways force from the string, as well as a potential negative effect on sustain. Years ago when I swapped the Kluson style tuners on my Tokai for Grovers, I used one one of StewMac's Rear Peghole Reamers. And I don't know why but their updated example illustration now does a terrible job at showing the intended result. There should be a 'step' in diameters: 10mm at the rear, but still 8mm at the front. Below is an older image which at least attempts to show the step: The new tuners & bushings should also come with a set of washers roughly 14mm-15mm in diameter, so even if some slight damage to the front of the headstock occurs when removing the old push-in bushings, these washers should be enough to hide it. |
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Post by asmith on Jul 31, 2021 12:14:44 GMT -5
You've not shown the tuning posts of the Schallers, but unless they're doing something new & different, those bushings screw into the body of the tuners, rather than the headstock. You are 100% correct:  Typically the hole required for push-in bushings is about 8mm in diameter, and the outer diameter of the threaded portion of screw-in bushings is the same. This therefore means that a rear section of the tuner post is wider to accommodate the internal thread that mates with the screw-in bushing, typically 10mm diameter extending roughly 8mm-10mm into the headstock. So, providing my assumptions thus far are correct, installing the Schallers will require enlarging the peg holes. Now you're 200% correct:  You could drill/file/ream the entire depth through the headstock, such that the 10mm body of the tuner fits, but that would mean the 8mm diameter of the bushing wouldn't be snug within the larger hole. This could potentially have negative mechanical effects due to the strong sideways force from the string, as well as a potential negative effect on sustain. 😬 Eek. Years ago when I swapped the Kluson style tuners on my Tokai for Grovers, I used ... 🙂 The new tuners & bushings should also come with a set of washers roughly 14mm-15mm in diameter, so even if some slight damage to the front of the headstock occurs when removing the old push-in bushings, these washers should be enough to hide it. You can see one of these on the first image, and I just measured it to be 15 mm, so now you're 300% correct. Thanks for your help so far. 🙂 (And thanks for your input too, thetragichero! Your confidence to go ahead and do things is unerringly inspiring.) |
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Post by Yogi B on Aug 1, 2021 21:51:24 GMT -5
Years ago when I swapped the Kluson style tuners on my Tokai for Grovers, I used ... 🙂 Maybe? Alternatively, if you already have one, I'd be tempted to use a stepped drill bit with adjacent 8mm & 10mm sizes: Also, I know for a fact that the 10mm diameter of the StewMac reamer bit will not fit in the chuck of my hand drill (I can't remember what I ended up doing back in the day, but it was undoubtedly something pretty kludgy). That being said, using a step bit might not be the most straightforward process if it doesn't give the required depth before reaching the next step (if applicable).
For fun, I've looked up my e-mail invoice for StewMac — got a little confused for a moment when I read August 2nd — then realised it said 2011. |
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