Can’t see why this won’t work

[frets]

Hi Guys,

I really need your help.  The following diagram I liked due to the Bridge+Neck in Series.  But the Neck pickup will not work when the Series switch is in the down position.  Pull up on it and you get series.  But nothing in the down position.  I can’t see the problem.  It’s an easy diagram, I just don’t see it.  I know it does not work because I built it twice.  Can one of you see a remedy?  Please?

[ashcatlt]

The only thing I can think is that the ground connection on that switch is hinkey. I'm sure you've checked it 18 times, but there's just nothing else that I can see that would cause that aside from a bad switch. I would not trust that kind of thing to go through a foil shield. It needs to be a good solid wired and soldered connection that ultimately reaches the jack sleeve.

[frets]

Thanks Ash,

I thought of that ground connection too. I also used a new switch in the second build. Same story. I might try doing the regular 3 way wiring on the switch.

[ashcatlt]

I edited my post while you were posting, so now I'm unediting that post and posting this new one instead.

I feel like I must be missing something here, but if I'm correct, I don't like this scheme at all. Series mode only seems to work when the 3-way is in the Neck only position. In the other two positions, that whole pickup is shorted (both ends connected to hot output), so that you'll have bridge only in a total of 3 positions. For this kind of scheme, I very much prefer a Series override arrangement where flipping (pulling, in this case) that switch just puts both pickups in parallel regardless of the 3-way.

[frets]

Ash,

I’m starting to agree. The only thoughts I had were that it would do both pickups in series and it looked like an easy wire.

[frets]

I’m tired, but I wired the 3-Way normal (instead of that wonky way) and the harness works.  Posted is the diagram.  It’s only real benefit is the Series.  It sounds to me like on the Tone pull up that it does BxN in the Neck Position, N in Series in the B+N Position and B Parallel + Neck Series in the Bridge Position.  But like I said I’m tired.  All I care about is that it did B, B+N, N plus the dual splits and the seriesed pickups on the pull ups.

[ashcatlt]

So I'm a bit rusty at this, and still kind of think I must be missing something, but I'm not getting what you described from what you've drawn here.

First off, there is no way that this ever ends up with either of the pickups in local parallel. They're either normal series-wired HB or one coil shorted, and that only happens with the switch that does that. Then, the way I'm seeing it, with the S/P switch in series mode, it should be N*B, B only (N shorted), B only (N open, hanging from hot).


Edit - IDK why this is bothering me so much, but it's just not adding up, which has me second-guessing myself, but it's such a simple scheme... I got to thinking maybe I was wrong about which lugs I thought were common on the tele switch. Looking at it with that assumption just doesn't work at all, though. You end up with the middle position dead no matter what else is going on, and frankly the jumpers just don't make sense because those adjacent lugs wouldn't ever do anything anyway. So... hopefully somebody can help us both check our sanity here, but I still don't like it.

It's funny, I just had to open up my 12 string tele to see what I had even done to it, and found that it actually was my first (and only) series override switch, and now I think I'm kind of a fan. The 3-way really just works like you'd expect - N, N+B, B - but when you flip (pull) the switch, it's just N*B no matter what the tele switch thinks it's.

BTW - The two different ways of wiring that tele switch are functionally identical and interchangeable as long you don't get confused about which lug is which. I notice that the two diagrams have the switch lugs offset differently, and that helped me to think I might be wrong, but both of them must have the bottom left and top right lugs as common or else they can't work.

[newey]

Aug 12, 2021 21:50:43 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

First off, there is no way that this ever ends up with either of the pickups in local parallel.

Correct, that was not part of the scheme.

Then, the way I'm seeing it, with the S/P switch in series mode, it should be N*B, B only (N shorted), B only (N open, hanging from hot).

That's the way I see it, too.

EDIT:Oh, and sorry, but I moved this thread from schematics, since it seems to be more of a work in progress.

[frets]

I’ve gone back and tested it and Ash is right. So this whole harness is really a waste. I should have done it my own way. Just goes to show trying to go easy is usually going to screw things up.

[newey]

Having the series setting override the 3-way is the way to go with this

[reTrEaD]

Aug 13, 2021 8:51:16 GMT -5 frets said:

I’ve gone back and tested it and Ash is right. So this whole harness is really a waste. I should have done it my own way. Just goes to show trying to go easy is usually going to screw things up.

Doing it right is easy, as long as you have a plan.

Aug 13, 2021 9:39:14 GMT -5 newey said:

Having the series setting override the 3-way is the way to go with this

And that's a good plan.

3-way + Global Series switch the GuitarNutz (proper) way

[frets]

Thanks Retread,
That method is brilliant in its simplicity.

[reTrEaD]

I like to use the term 'Elegantly Simple'. I chose to represent the DPDT switch in schematic form rather than wiring diagram. I think it's tells more of the story.