ls1986
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 8
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Post by ls1986 on Aug 14, 2021 0:39:21 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
Firstly, I'll apologize for what is probably a pretty silly question. I'm definitely a beginner and probably only know enough about guitar wiring to be slightly dangerous. I'm hoping to remedy that.
I'm working on my first guitar build, an SS Telecaster with Volume, Tone and a 4-Way switch. In looking at wiring diagrams I find my OCD kicking in about how messy having everything grounded to a pot casing seems. To avoid possible damage to the guitar, and maybe make fixing my mistakes easier, I'm mounting the controls on a board that I can basically just connect the pickup leads to and set in the control cavity. If I were to solder ground wires from all the usual locations (pickup cover/base plate, potentiometer lugs, output jack sleeve, et al) to a single metal plate on that board in stead of the back of a pot am I introducing a problem?
My current plan is to "star ground" everything to a small copper plate on the same board I mount all the controls on. I've seen references to people grounding to a "grounding plate" or even just a single screw inside the control cavity, but not actually seen any pictures or wiring diagrams that include that sort of approach. I'd like things to look a little neater, but not if that means they won't work properly.
Thanks in advance for any help.
-Landon
Also, so that I (hopefully) don't bombard this forum with overly-simple questions, are there any resources to learn basics (reading a wiring schematic for example) that you could recommend? So far every book I've picked up on the subject seems to assume I'm starting out with a level of knowledge on the subject that I just haven't found access to yet.
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Post by unreg on Aug 14, 2021 4:17:13 GMT -5
hi ls1986, welcome! If I were to solder ground wires from all the usual locations (pickup cover/base plate, potentiometer lugs, output jack sleeve, et al) to a single metal plate on that board in stead of the back of a pot am I introducing a problem?
My current plan is to "star ground" everything to a small copper plate on the same board I mount all the controls on. Ummm, I ended up with the same OCD and followed newey’s idea of using a paperclip, one end screwed into a cavity wall, as my starground. Works excellently! The most important wire to solder to a starground is the ground from the output jack bc if that is missing or soldered incorrectly, the starground is pointless; a starground needs to be grounded. 🙂 Using only a screw to make a starground can become problematic since, screws can loosen and so the grounded wires can separate. Note: You asked, “am I introducing a problem?” Well, I’m not sure, I’ve been corrected so many times here, but I do know you’ll be solving a potential problem that can occur if you would apply too much heat to the back of a pot. Current potentiometers are frequently made with cheaper materials; therefore, too much heat can efficiently melt/ruin their insides. I was told to cover my paperclip with electrical tape. The electrical tape is obviously not made with metal, so it doesn’t block hum; however, it does block electrical signals in the air, like our bodies give off. I’m unsure of how a metal plate would do inside a guitar; I guarantee someone here with greater knowledge, there are many, can better answer your question. 🙂 |
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Post by b4nj0 on Aug 14, 2021 5:03:43 GMT -5
unreg, I'm not sure whether we're at crossed purposes here, but I'm going to assert that all the electrical tape does (I presume you mean PVC insulating tape?) is to prevent undesired electrical shorts inside the cavity. It does not and cannot block "electrical signals in the air, like our bodies give off" as you describe it. At best it could be thought of as a dielectric, but dielectrics pass alternating current to one extent or another anyway. I cannot conceive of electrical signals given off by flesh and bone. If the tape acted as a shield for that, then all use of radio as we know it would cease to exist. Perhaps you mean the way that buzz reduces when you grasp something grounded on the guitar? Even then, the electrical tape inside the cavities on bare conductors or metal would have no effect. No way am I lauding it up and behaving like your typical internet tröll, I just can't sit back and allow that to pass by unchallenged. We had this out just recently with nail varnish supposedly acting as a screen. I unreservedly apologise to you if this comes across as rude, it is absolutely not intended that way Sir/Madam, it's all about the pursuit of understanding. e&oe ...
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Post by reTrEaD on Aug 14, 2021 5:06:07 GMT -5
The electrical tape is obviously not made with metal, so it doesn’t block hum; however, it does block electrical signals in the air, like our bodies give off. No. Electrical tape protects from accidental connection of bare wires. It does NOT block any sort of 'electrical signals in the air'. EDIT: ninja'd by b4nj0  |
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Post by reTrEaD on Aug 14, 2021 5:37:45 GMT -5
My current plan is to "star ground" everything to a small copper plate on the same board I mount all the controls on. I've seen references to people grounding to a "grounding plate" or even just a single screw inside the control cavity, but not actually seen any pictures or wiring diagrams that include that sort of approach. I'd like things to look a little neater, but not if that means they won't work properly. Connecting all your grounds to a single point is a reasonable plan. Also, so that I (hopefully) don't bombard this forum with overly-simple questions, are there any resources to learn basics (reading a wiring schematic for example) that you could recommend? So far every book I've picked up on the subject seems to assume I'm starting out with a level of knowledge on the subject that I just haven't found access to yet. Wiring diagrams and schematics tend to be a bit different. And some drawings combine elements of both. A wiring diagram is generally a 'pictorial' that looks very similar to the physical wiring. A schematic uses symbols that somewhat represent the innards of the components. And the wire connections are drawn such that they are less cluttered even if that means the routing doesn't resemble the physical wiring. This is a SCHEMATIC of a Gibson Les Paul, 2-pickups, 2-volumes, 2-tones:  This is a WIRING DIAGRAM for the same, although the string ground isn't shown and the wires from the pickups and to the selector switch are shown as separate wires. In actually they are shielded cables.  |
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Post by newey on Aug 14, 2021 8:04:40 GMT -5
ls1986- Hello ands Welcome to G-Nutz2!Others have already addressed most of your questions, but just let me add: My current plan is to "star ground" everything to a small copper plate on the same board I mount all the controls on. That should work fine, so long as there is no chance of contact with any of the "hot" connections once you screw the control plate into place. There's limited room in a Tele cavity, so a strip of electrical tape over the grounding plate will help avoid any inadvertent contact. I would also advise, after soldering but before "buttoning it up", that you check for proper grounding with a multimeter. You will be checking for continuity, or a very low resistance, between the output jack sleeve connection and the backs of the various pots, etc., as well as to your bridge ground. |
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 14, 2021 10:51:11 GMT -5
A bunch of good answers here, but I’m gonna try to underline the part that I think is important which I think a lot of people misunderstand. I kind of cringe to describe “ground” as though it was a destination, but IF we’re going to do that, then the ultimate destination is the jack sleeve. We’re not trying to get our ground wires to the pot backs. They need to get to the jack sleeve. The pot (and switch) casings are things which also want to get to the jack sleeve, but that’s for (perhaps questionable) shielding/noise reasons - mostly just “best practice” and not at all required for normal function of the pickup circuit. It is, in fact, a very bad idea to rely on the connection between the pot bodies to carry our pickup signals. I tend to think Leo was just a little lazy one day and everybody has followed his poor example ever since.  I personally shoot to collect all of my grounds on an actual solder lug. If there’s pots, I’ll try to connect all the wires at the grounded lug of the volume and connect the jack sleeve there too. Then I know that all of my signal wires are actually soldered together and have to work. In some cases it might be a switch lug. Some switches have dedicated frame ground lugs, and that’s a decent place to collect all your grounds, too, but we’re not relying on that frame to conduct anything. All the wires are connected directly and that’s just a convenient place to anchor that. Wherever we choose, we are going to find a way to get the pot backs to there, not vice versa if that makes sense. I never even try to solder to the back of a pot. Put a ring connector or washer around the shaft and run a wire to your actual ground point. It’s not going to ruin anything if that comes loose. In many cases you’ll never notice. |
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Post by unreg on Aug 14, 2021 11:50:05 GMT -5
b4nj0 and reTrEaD, thank you for correcting my mistakes again. One day I’m going to make a mistake-less attempt at providing help. That’s my plan. Sorry ls1986; listen to b4nj0, reTrEaD, newey, and ashcatlt… these are some of the “much more knowledgeable” gn2 members I was talking about. 🙂
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ls1986
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
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Post by ls1986 on Aug 14, 2021 17:40:54 GMT -5
Fantastic. Thank you all for your help.
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