Help: HHH Wiring in Series - Add Push/Pull Series/Parallel

[gothtracker]

Dear all,

Very grateful with the rich resources being shared here. I am going to embark on my first every DIY soldering project with three Seymour Duncan humbuckers, one 5-way super switch, one volume and one tone pot.

Is it possible to make the tone pot a push/pull one to activate series/parallel switching for this wiring? Thanks!!

<img src="" alt="" style="max-width:100%;">

[newey]

gothtracker-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Is it possible to make the tone pot a push/pull one to activate series/parallel switching for this wiring?

The answer depends on what you mean by "series/parallel switching". A push/pull pot is a double-pole switch. It can be used to put two "things" in series or in parallel with each other. You could, therefore, have any one of the three pickups in series with any one of the other two. Or, it could be used to put any one pickup in series or parallel with whatever is selected by the 5-way switch (the 5-way thus being the "second thing"). You would not be able to get all series/parallel combos of all three pickups, however, as that would require more switch poles.

Because the middle pickup is not split to single-coil operation, using a push/pull to put the middle pickup in series with the 5-way switch would be the most strightforward option. If you wanted either the bridge or neck pickups to be the one put in seires, it might cause issues with the coil splitting of those pickups, depedning on how the coil splits are accomplished. I didn't look at that specifically, if may or may not be an issue; if it is, a more significant reworking of the diagram would be needed.

[gothtracker]

Thanks Newey, for the welcome and prompt response!

Ok, this is what happened here - I try to study and understand the wiring diagram shown above (taken from this site) and if I'm not wrong, all the 5 positions are wired in series to give any position/combination a fuller sound.

My exact questions will be, can I simply replace the tone pot, to a push/pull one, to:

1. toggle all 5 positions, from Series to Parallel.
2. If I cannot do that for all 5 positions, can I at least toggle position 2 and 4 from series to parallel for that more stratty voicing while not losing out in volume.

3. Or, I may not even need the pull/push at all, since position 2 and 4 are already in split coil operation, and in series to give a fuller voicing.

Hope I am clear with my words here. 🙏

[newey]

Oct 14, 2021 5:39:36 GMT -5 gothtracker said:

1. toggle all 5 positions, from Series to Parallel.

No, for the reasons I said above, you would need more switching to be able to put more than two things into series/parallel.

2. If I cannot do that for all 5 positions, can I at least toggle position 2 and 4 from series to parallel for that more stratty voicing while not losing out in volume.

This scheme splits the middle pickup to either the N or S coil, so as to maintain hum-cancelling in positions 2 and 4. To keep the wiring at 2 and 4 the same, but putting it in parallel instead, would require switching 4 coils, and means more swithc poles would be needed. There will be a slight difference in output when in parallel.

all the 5 positions are wired in series to give any position/combination a fuller sound.

Yes.

3. Or, I may not even need the pull/push at all, since position 2 and 4 are already in split coil operation, and in series to give a fuller voicing.

Well, you wanted parallel, so without the switch, positions 2 and 4 will only be in series. The standard Strat wiring is in parallel, so if it's the Strat sound at 2 and 4 you are after, you'd want those positions to be in parallel, not series. Understand, though, that it won't sound exactly like a Strat since the pickups are different than single coils.

With just one push/pull switch, the best you could achieve would be to put one of the pickups in series or parallel with the 5-way switch, althoug the coil splitting may be an issue as I said above. We'd have to take a closer look at it.

[gothtracker]

Thanks for addressing my questions!


[/quote]Well, you wanted parallel, so without the switch, positions 2 and 4 will only be in series. The standard Strat wiring is in parallel, so if it's the Strat sound at 2 and 4 you are after, you'd want those positions to be in parallel, not series. Understand, though, that it won't sound exactly like a Strat since the pickups are different than single coils.

With just one push/pull switch, the best you could achieve would be to put one of the pickups in series or parallel with the 5-way switch, althoug the coil splitting may be an issue as I said above. We'd have to take a closer look at it.[/quote]


Now, how about employing TWO push/pull pots instead? Push pull volume to toggle position 2 series to parallel, and push pull tone to toggle position 4 series to parallel.

[gothtracker]

Hi Newey,

I think I may have found a solution on toggling positions 2 and 4 from series to parallel, from the resources here! But i may need your expertise to help remove one of the tone pot in the diagram below:

[newey]

Goth-

You have found a solution, but I'm not sure that hum-cancellation is the same as in the first diagram. Presumably, one of the two combos with the middle pickup will be hum-cancelling, but not both.

To remove the second tone pot, and have just a master tone, is easy enough. Instead of wiring the 2 tone pots from the 5-way switch, the single master tone pot will be wired straight off the volume control. You can consult any Strat diagram with a single V and T set-up to see how to do this.

[gothtracker]

Hi Newey,



Are you saying that position 2 and 4, after changing from series to parallel, will be NON-hum cancelling? 

[newey]

Oct 14, 2021 22:50:02 GMT -5 gothtracker said:

Are you saying that position 2 and 4, after changing from series to parallel, will be NON-hum cancelling?

No, this has nothing to do with whether one is in series or parallel, it has to do with the polarity of the coils on the middle pickup. If you are using all identical SD pickups, it won't be an issue.

[gothtracker]

Great. Yes I am using all SD pickups. 4 wires with shield. Hot Rails for the neck, Little 59 for the middle, and a Custom SH-5 for the bridge.

Last question before I get on with the soldering iron - is there anyway to enable tone control for position 1 for the configuration in the 2nd diagram above? Thanks!

[Yogi B]

Oct 14, 2021 12:26:18 GMT -5 newey said:

Oct 14, 2021 5:39:36 GMT -5 gothtracker said:

1. toggle all 5 positions, from Series to Parallel.

No, for the reasons I said above, you would need more switching to be able to put more than two things into series/parallel.

But... we only ever have two things.

I'm sure there must already be a diagram around here somewhere that does something along these lines (Edit: this from JohnH is basically it, if we ignore the extra split position in the centre of the ON/ON/ON DPDT), the idea is to use two poles of the super switch to select the 'hot' & 'ground' of one coil, e.g. (in this case all the south coils):

1	Bridge South
2	Bridge South
3	Middle South
4	Middle South
5	Neck South

And the other two poles to select the other (in this case, north) coil:

1	Bridge North
2	Middle North
3	Middle North
4	Neck North
5	Neck North

Then with only a DPDT push-pull we can easily switch those two chosen coils between series & parallel.

[newey]

OK, Yogi B, you've got me if that can be done. I don't recall seeing such a diagram before, but if you say it can be done, I'll bite.

[JohnH]

yes that diagram of mine is one of a few I did based on the idea that the best sounds come from just one or two coils, and if you can select them with a super-switch, then you have just two coils ready to be simply combined. SSS, HSS, HSH and HHH versions are all on here somewhere

[gothtracker]

Hi Yogi B and JohnH,

Are the diagrams here that you guys are talking about?:

Mar 21, 2019 1:43:49 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Mar 20, 2019 12:04:32 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

I suppose it is a question of how small is a "small switch"? A 3PDT isn't much bigger than a DPDT.

Taking the same logic that allows the use of a 4PDT in the latter case, the former still need only be a DPDT -- I misssed that.

Mar 20, 2019 12:34:11 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

I might not be looking closely enough but I think a 4PDT might leave you one pole shy of being able to select the tone pot AND prevent tying the series links of two pickups together in the HB mode, in the #2 and #4 positions.

I thought so too, until I realised that keeping one of the ends of the parallel-mode tone control attached to ground (or hot) was false economy.

---

Here are the diagrams, first JohnH's wiring then my two.

---

And here is the first of mine (the centre above) as a schematic.

SPOILER: Click to show

The other just uses the additional poles of the 4PDT to do the series/parallel switching of the middle pickup, but is otherwise identical.

[Yogi B]

Oct 16, 2021 2:56:32 GMT -5 gothtracker said:

Are the diagrams here that you guys are talking about? ...

No, this is:

Dec 11, 2009 14:05:50 GMT -5 JohnH said:

The coil assignment done differently than in my post above, but it still gets the same selections (I'm reading it as though the furthest left pickup is toward the neck; also the wire colours are already Seymour Duncan, meaning that the blue coils are south):

	Lower-Left & Upper-Right Poles	Lower-Right & Upper-Left Poles
1	Bridge North	Bridge South
2	Bridge South	Middle North
3	Middle North	Middle South
4	Middle South	Neck North
5	Neck North	Neck South

The vivid red and blue coloured terminals are connected to hot and ground (respectively, to respect convention — although which way doesn't really matter). The DPDT on the right is illustrated with the red jumpers in a centre-ON position (which would give only coils listed in the first of the above columns). In your case we only care about the outer switch positions: when the centre (common) terminals are connected to the lower terminals, the coils chosen by the 5-way are combined in parallel; whereas, when connected to the upper terminals, the coils are combined in series.

[newey]

Oct 17, 2021 1:55:28 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

The DPDT on the right is illustrated with the red jumpers in a centre-ON position (which would give only coils listed in the first of the above columns). In your case we only care about the outer switch positions: when the centre (common) terminals are connected to the lower terminals, the coils chosen by the 5-way are combined in parallel; whereas, when connected to the upper terminals, the coils are combined in series.

gothtracker:

To clarify this a bit, if you use a DPDT On-On switch (which can be a push/pull pot), you'll toggle between series and parallel on the 5-way switch. If you use a DPDT On-On-On switch (which would need to be a toggle, no such animal exists in a push/pull pot), you will toggle between series/split coil/parallel. The wiring doesn't change, only the type of switch is different.

[Jaga]

BTW, just 5 cents regarding the pots... Push/pulls having 4PDT switch exist. They're a bit expensive, but can be considered theoretically.

[JohnH]

Oct 18, 2021 14:45:10 GMT -5 Jaga said:

BTW, just 5 cents regarding the pots... Push/pulls having 4PDT switch exist. They're a bit expensive, but can be considered theoretically.

Thanks for posting that, it's good to know about those.

A more well-known option for a pot with a 4-pole is a Fender S1, as seen on high-end Fender models. It's a push-push though, based on a button in the flat area of the switch. I think knob shape may be limited , maybe to Strat or Tele styles.