Duo Sonic: Series/Parallel, In Phase/Out of Phase Help

[lawzenge]

I'm a new member and was hoping someone could help me in drawing out a diagram for what I have in my head. I have a Fender Duo Sonic that has standard wiring: one volume, one tone, three way toggle switch. I would like to use a S1 switch so that when it is pressed, I get series, parallel out of phase, and series out of phase. I would like to keep the stock options of neck, neck/bridge parallel, and bridge when the S1 switch is depressed. Is this possible to do with an S1 switch and three way toggle? If not, can I do this with push-pull pots?

Thank you for reading!

[sumgai]

lawzenge;

Oct 21, 2021 0:01:36 GMT -5 lawzenge said:

I have a Fender Duo Sonic that has standard wiring: one volume, one tone, three way toggle switch. I would like to use a S1 switch so that when it is pressed, I get series, parallel out of phase, and series out of phase. I would like to keep the stock options of neck, neck/bridge parallel, and bridge when the S1 switch is depressed. Is this possible to do with an S1 switch and three way toggle? If not, can I do this with push-pull pots?

Thank you for reading!

Sorry no one has gotten back to you on this!

My gut feeling is that it can be done*, but the order of the standard selections when S1 is depressed might not be as you requested.  Let me ponder this for a few hours (read that as: a few days), and see what I can devise.

sumgai

* It seems to me that I've already done this exact thing with my old Strat, but do keep in mind that my memory has more than a few "dead spots".  Let me look in my notebook and see what I actually did.

[Deleted]

So we have a TOGGLE to play with, guessing its a 2P2T (dont ask me why its called that) On-On-On
and will be using a S1 so thats a 4P2T On-On

1) Neck
2) Neck+Bridge
3) Bridge

then
1) Neck x Bridge
2) Neck x Bridge (one of the Pickups Phased)
3) Neck + Bridge (one of the Pickups Phased)

giving you all the out comes with 2 pickups
May need to expand the Toggle to a 4P2T (On-On-On) will still look the same out the outside but the inside will be bigger.

Going to take a bit of time to think of that for me

[newey]

I, too, am surprised no one got back to you, lawzenge. Mainly because I thought I had done so. I had written a response (while at work), noting how much I love my own Duo-Sonic (a reissue), and questioning, as @angellahash did, whether you would need a 4-pole toggle switch to do this. Apparently, I got distracted and never hit the "create post" button.

I believe you will need a 4-pole toggle. Essentially, you are using the S-1 as a "mode switch", to switch between a standard "parallel mode" on the 3-way and a "series/phase mode". I can't see any way to do so with a regular 3-way toggle (I'll wait for others to prove me wrong on that . . .)

Also, my Duo-Sonic has the 3-way toggle mounted on the lower bout. I've never had the pickguard off of mine, but a 4-pole toggle is fairly sizeable so you might need to modify the body to get it to fit where the existing switch sits. There will also be a lot more wiring running to and from that toggle and your S-1, you might also have to enlarge the channel that the wires run through.

[Deleted]

if any one has cross eyes maybe check this out

[sumgai]

angellahash's solution does work as desired. However, you do have the problem of procuring a 4PON/ON/ON toggle. Beyond that, is there space under the pickguard for it?

If either of those obstacles cannot be overcome (within reason), then a dual p/p pot solution is easy. Might cost less, too.


sumgai

[stevewf]

Nov 4, 2021 14:34:55 GMT -5 sumgai said:

However, you do have the problem of procuring a 4PON/ON/ON toggle. Beyond that, is there space under the pickguard for it?

There's a 4P2TOn/On/On by DiMarzio. On their website under Hardware>Switches. It's not a mini switch - it needs a 3/8" hole, like a US pot.
I got one through eBay. Search for 4PDT 3 POSITION Toggle Switch ON-ON-ON DPDT Petrucci Mod. HARD TO FIND 1/4" hole. That one is a mini switch. I haven't tried it yet, but I did verify the continuity of each pole/throw, and it acted like a On/On/On should.

[sumgai]

4PDT 3 POSITION Toggle Switch ON-ON-ON DPDT Petrucci Mod. HARD TO FIND 1/4" HOLE

The problem there is, it's not an exact replacement for the Duo-Sonic's switch, which is to say, the bushing diameter is too small for the present hole. More to the point, the included "truth table" reveals this to be essentially a so-called Kent Armstrong switch, with the two center poles reversed. As such, it won't work for the diagram posted by angellahash - three of the poles must have a connection in the middle position (pos. 2), whereas the linked switch has only two connections in pos. 2.

But nice find, 'cause there are plenty of other lash-ups out there that do require this exact switch - we've posted several of them over the years. (The physical order of the poles makes no difference, electrically the two versions are the same thing.)

HTH



sumgai

[Deleted]

I can do it with 2xPush/Pulls 2P2T
Or one and use S1 (but only half of it)

5am and I've been puking most of the night
Push Pull
Just phase switch bridge
S1
Neck Output A0
A1 to Toggle Neck
A2 to OUTPUT
Bridge Output B0
B1 to Toggle Bridge
B2 to C2
Neck Ground C0
C1 to GROUND
C2 to B2
Toggle Outputs D0
D1 to OUTPUT
D2 Not Connected

Push Pull phases the Bridge
And S1 now bypass toggle for just series

===============
for the 2x 2P2T Push Pull i think

NECK + always to OUTPUT
NECK - to Toggle Common A0, A1 (1&2Locations) to X0, X1 to GROUND, X2 to Z2, A2 (3Locataion) and B1 (1Location)
Bridge + to Toggle Common B0, B1 to A2, X2 and Z2, B1 (2&3Locations) to Z0, Z1 to OUTPUT
Bridge - to GROUND
(Bridge + and - is what comes from the Phasing of the Bridge in the other 2P2T Switch)

[sumgai]

ang,

A pair of good push/pulls is preferable, if only for the fact that an S1 costs about twice what a p/p goes for.

Besides, using only half of an expensive switch goes waaay against the rules. To wit:

The First Law of GNutz2: "Leave no lug unsoldered!"^©

(copyright 2010, The Beta Particle Bombarder)

[stevewf]

Nov 4, 2021 16:58:03 GMT -5 sumgai said:

4PDT 3 POSITION Toggle Switch ON-ON-ON DPDT Petrucci Mod. HARD TO FIND 1/4" HOLE

The problem there is, it's not an exact replacement for the Duo-Sonic's switch, which is to say, the bushing diameter is too small for the present hole. More to the point, the included "truth table" reveals this to be essentially a so-called Kent Armstrong switch, with the two center poles reversed. As such, it won't work for the diagram posted by angellahash - three of the poles must have a connection in the middle position (pos. 2), whereas the linked switch has only two connections in pos. 2.

Yes, I see now that the solution required is a switch with:

• 4 poles, 2 throws each
• 3-position lever switch
• 3/8-inch panel mount bushing
• Not too long (i.e deep) or wide for a Duo-Sonic body cavity

Found: I dug around on the web a bit; maybe the Switchcraft 21314X (Data sheet on a retailer's site here) could work.
- I'll bet it's really hard to get, and expensive, it has the wrong knob (replaceable?), and it looks big. On size: while I don't know the Duo-Sonic, I have doubts that the switch's 2.13 inches depth (bare minimum, probably more space than 2.13" needed) will fit in a Duo-Sonic cavity. Sorry!
- What's more, it appears that Switchcraft may be discontinuing its non-locking versions of switches like these. With the locking versions, the knob has to be special (not like a std LP knob), and you have to push the knob inward in order to change the switch position.
- Switchcraft also sell the components that make up their switches, so it might be possible to make a custom switch. I bet the parts have to be bought in large lots, though.

Found: At the time of this post, there are some 4P2T toggles available on eBay for a more [less un-]reasonable price. It's listed as ON-OFF-ON, but looking at the photos, it looks like ON-ON-ON to me. [Edit: closer look shows ON-OFF-ON. Might be able to bend the tabs to change that; if so, this switch could be very customizable]
- This one also looks like it might be too deep for the Duo-Sonic, but hard to tell.

[Edit: added later]
Found: A real 4P2T 3-way pickup selector by Switchcraft on GuitarElectronics. Except that it's also probably too big for the Duo-Sonic. It's a right-angle jobbie that's meant for two-neck guitars.