SSS with series switch and standard 5-way switch

[axedoctor]

SSS strat idea

using P/P DPDT switch on Volume pot to create Middle&Bridge and Middle&Neck series combos (with second half of switch to choose 500kohm or 250kohm Volume control)

switch Down yields standard B B+M M M+N N

switch Up yields B&M ? ? ? N&M

question is : what happens in positions 2,3,4 when in the Middle pickup is used as the foundation for the dual single-coil series combos?

operation of the 5-way seems to effectively short out the raised pickup in positions 2 and 4, retaining only the Middle coil sound ... are there any issues with this connection?

in position 3, it appears that the "humbuckers" remain intact, with the output derived from the common foundation coil yielding a parallel combination of B&M and N&M pickups ... is this correct?


many thanks in advance for your insights!

[sumgai]

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Nov 26, 2021 13:01:54 GMT -5 axedoctor said:

using P/P DPDT switch on Volume pot to create Middle&Bridge and Middle&Neck series combos (with second half of switch to choose 500kohm or 250kohm Volume control)

Stop right there, my friend... that DPDT won't be enough to do both S/P and Vol pot switching. Consider - no matter how you hook it up, you either control both leads of the Mid pup, or you re-route one lead of the Middle pup and one corresponding lead of either the Bridge or the Neck pickup. That requires both poles, so there's nothing left to select one of the Vol pots. 

As to your other questions, I'm gonna take a pass.


If I were friendly, I'd suggest that you search for the terms "series parallel sss" and for posts authored by JohnH. He's done extensive work in this area, I'm pretty sure you're gonna find what you need within his realm of contributions. And of course, you can always ask him for further advice.

And for that matter, the never-to-be-famous-enough Mike Richardson mod might actually give you a thrill, who knows.


HTH




sumgai

[newey]

Got a drawing?

Might be easier to just pick one pickup, either bridge or neck, and use the P/P to put it in series with the output from the 5-way switch. If you put the bridge in series, you'd have (from 5 down to 1): N X B/ B X (N + M)/ B X M/ B X (M + B)/ B. (Not sure what happens at position 2, I think it would just be M X B).

[reTrEaD]

Nov 26, 2021 13:01:54 GMT -5 axedoctor said:

switch Up yields B&M ? ? ? N&M

question is : what happens in positions 2,3,4 when in the Middle pickup is used as the foundation for the dual single-coil series combos?

The results depend on how you manage the M lug of the selector and the (+) wire of the middle pickup, when in the series mode.

If you leave the connection stock, the result is:

5 - Neck x Middle
4 - Middle (Neck shunted)
3 - Middle
2 - Middle (Bridge shunted)
1 - Bridge x Middle

If you apply lessons learned from 3-way + Global Series switch the GuitarNutz (proper) way, you can get either:

5 - Neck x Middle
4 - (Neck + Bridge) x Middle
3 - Bridge x Middle
2 - Bridge x Middle
1 - Bridge x Middle

OR

5 - Neck x Middle
4 - Neck x Middle
3 - Neck x Middle
2 - (Neck + Bridge) x Middle
1 - Bridge x Middle

The difference depends on whether where you connect the M lug of the selector, in the series mode.
In the first instance, it's connected to the B lug.
In the second instance, it's connected to the N lug.

[sumgai]

newey,


Whenever you place a pup in series with a parallel combination that also contains that same pickup, what do you suppose happens? Hint: it ain't pretty.

[jhng]

You can actually do the series switch with with one pole only, as I’m sure Sumgai will realise in a moment.

Check out the Craig Anderton stock parts mod (I think there is a version on GN2 somewhere — if not, it’s definitely on the internet elsewhere) for a clue as to how you can do both series and, wait for it, out of phase wiring all with one SPDT switch (or as in his mod just by repurposing a tone pot).

EDIT: I now can’t seem to find any references or links to the mod I am remembering. But it’s very simple (and very clever) so I don’t think I’ve imagined it. If anyone is interested I can post a picture at some point.

[reTrEaD]

Nov 26, 2021 15:45:24 GMT -5 jhng said:

You can actually do the series switch with with one pole only, as I’m sure Sumgai will realise in a moment.

Yes indeed. You can accomplish more if you use two poles, but you can definitely get series combinations using just one pole.

However, you can't switch between a 500k volume and a 250k volume with just one pole and achieve the desired result. You CAN use a 500k volume and switch a 470k in parallel with that, using just one pole. This kinda sorta achieves the goal of more loading in the parallel mode.

Personally, I'd use a 250k volume, 250k no-load tone pot, and call it a day with no switching. YMMV.

[JohnH]

This is my favorite version of a series switch and a standard 5 way. While doing that, you get a blender and a B+N parallel tone too.

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7117/strat-ssm3-series-parallel-switch

[axedoctor]

many thanks to each of you for your thoughtful replies

the simple approach yielding B&M M M M N&M would suffice, but ... 

the MR design yielding B&M B&MHOOP M N&MHOOP N&M is definitely more appealing

I intended to switch between 500kohm and 250kohm Volume using a 500kohm resistor, but needing two poles for the series switch has me considering a 500kohm potentiometer with a permanently installed parallel resistor chosen to adjust the load to service both pickup options most effectively

my plan was always to provide a choice of two capacitors on the treble tone control and configure the second tone control as a variable bass cut 

moving forward with this hybrid approach seems quite promising


Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors they succeed. (Proverbs 15:22)

[sumgai]

Peanuts!


Glad you are interested in Mike's design. Many of us, and many more outside of The NutzHouse have built it, and either play it like it is, or modify it even further. Mike himself is a member here, though he hasn't logged in too often in recent times. Or if he is copying the mail, he hasn't replied as often as one of us might. Taciturn fella, he is.

And yes, I can envision a way make a singular series connection with only an SPST, but doing so with the choice of either Bridge or Neck, that would tend to knock out the three middle positions on the pup selector - probably not something that most players would like to have in their arsenal, eh.  Choosing to do so for only one pup, that means only one dead position, with the remaining switch positions working as intended.  Getting that one extra tone isn't what I would call a good use of pickguard space, when so much more could be done for the same amount of effort (and nearly the same amount of money).

As for the old argument about the value of the Volume pot.... Never forget that in the beginning, Leo used 1MEG pots. 'Cause he had a warehouse full of them, for his amps.  My motto is: If it is too bright sounding for you, turn the Tone knob back a notch!  IOW, you can always make bright into dull, but you can never make dull into bright.*  Not a Zen saying, but certainly words to live by.

HTH




sumgai

* This is a corollary of the even older maxim: You can always futz up a clean sound to make it dirty, but you can NEVER make a dirty sound into a clean one.  'Struth.

[jhng]

I couldn't find the mod I was thinking of, although I know I've seen it online before. So here is a schematic. I believe it was invented by Craig Anderton back in the 80s. This is the original mod which uses stock parts only. You could, of course, use an SPDT for the switching instead of the the repurposed tone pot. You can also add a capacitor where indicated to give a half out-of-phase sound and reduce the phase cancellation on the bottom end.

The switch needs to be a proper strat switch with two separate poles and shorting in between positions.