HSS Design Idea

[axedoctor]

Hi All -



converting an SSS Strat to HSS with the following features :



4P5T Super Switch



5 Neck

4 Middle (plus Neck with 250k No-Load Blender)

3 Bridge South (plus Neck with 250k No-Load Blender)

2 Bridge North and Middle

1 Bridge Humbucker



500k Volume Control in position 1

250k Volume Control in positions 2-5



Push/Pull selectable 250k Tone Control (22uF or 44uF) with 25k minimum



150k&1nF Treble Bleed

thoughts???

[axedoctor]

decided to swap positions 2&3 to make the switching a bit more strat-like



5 Neck



4 Middle (plus Neck with 250k No-Load Blender)


3 Bridge North and Middle


2 Bridge South (plus Neck with 250k No-Load Blender)


1 Bridge Humbucker

[Deleted]

How are you converting the 500k volume to 250K

Gibson liked 500K with 22nF
Fender liked 250K with 47nF
From most of the images I've seen

[jhng]

Nov 30, 2021 22:54:17 GMT -5 axedoctor said:

decided to swap positions 2&3 to make the switching a bit more strat-like



5 Neck



4 Middle (plus Neck with 250k No-Load Blender)


3 Bridge North and Middle


2 Bridge South (plus Neck with 250k No-Load Blender)


1 Bridge Humbucker

This looks broadly speaking okay to me and I like the switching logic. However, I'm not sure why you have so much wiring for the Bridge humbucker. You seem to be using spare lugs on the superswitch to ground out the hot wires from various humbucker coils when they are not in use (e.g. BSH is connected to ground in position 5 (Neck only)). I don't think this is particularly necessary, is it? The wiring would be much simpler if you just left unused coils unconnected.

[axedoctor]

jhng - thanks for reviewing the design

in positions 4 & 5, BSH is actually connected to BNL to configure the bridge in humbucking mode

leaving the bridge disconnected (with BNL and BSH open rather than connected together) is an option




angellahash -

the 500k resistor is placed across the outer lugs of the 500k Volume Control potentiometer in the single coil positions 2-5 to provide an effective 250k load (in position 1 the humbucker bridge sees 500k)

choosing 22uF or 44uF with the 250k Tone Control potentiometer is independent of the 5-way switch position, so I think any of the combinations you mentioned can be accommodated

[newey]

Dec 1, 2021 11:37:50 GMT -5 axedoctor said:

in positions 4 & 5, BSH is actually connected to BNL to configure the bridge in humbucking mode

Not what I'm seeing. I think you're mixing up the positions on your 5-way switch. The top left-hand pole of the Superswitch connects BNL and BSH at the topmost 2 lugs. I think jhng and I were both assuming that was positions 1 and 2, not 4 and 5, since the neck pickup hot connects to the corresponding lug #1 on the lower left- hand pole. If you meant positions 4 and 5 are at the top, then BNH is disconnected in those positions, so you would not get the HB at all. If the topmost left pole lugs are 1 and 2, then BNH is connected to position 5 on the lower left-hand pole.

Now is also an appropriate time for me to pull out the soapbox, as I often do, regarding position numbering on 5-way switches. No one does so consistently, not even Fender, but the vast majority of Fender diagrams call "position 1" the position closest to the bridge, with the opposite end (closest to the neck) as Position 5. If using the standard Strat wiring, Position 1 is thus the bridge position, neck is #5. I have always tried here (without much success, unfortunately- hence the soapbox) to get people to adhere to Fender's typical designation, just so that at least we have some standardization here, even if nowhere else on the web . . .

I'm also not seeing how that resistor is across the legs of the Volume pot, it appears to be in series with the "hot" line.

[Deleted]

Resistance between output picks and ground is 250K but between output and output pick up is still going to be its value

As you said it's Potentiometer..
Halting a resister is putting two same value resistor in parallel.
As a potentiometer is two variable resistors ever side of each other



I'd need dual pot and then need two poles on the 4P5T .maybe possible if you change the North bridge in the mode for a South bridge again

[axedoctor]

newey et al - 


perhaps my understanding of the SuperSwitch diagram is incorrect, but my assumption was that each of the wafers are numbered 1 thru 5 from bottom to top as positioned on the drawing

(if incorrect, I can easily adjust them after verifying with the actual component) 


following this understanding, the wiring as shown, the left wafers should create :

a Bridge Humbucker in position 1 (BNL connected to BSH with BNH to output)

a Bridge South Single Coil in position 2 (BNL connected to BNH with BSH to output)

a Bridge North Single Coil in position 3 (BNL connected to GND with BNH to output)

a Bridge Humbucker in positions 4&5 (BNL connected to BSH) - as mentioned previously, this is optional given that the output in these positions does not involve the Bridge (4=MH and 5=NH)


the intent of the upper right wafer is to connect the 500k resistor from the output to ground in positions 2 thru 5 (the Single Coil positions)
to create an equivalent 250k load on the pickups in conjunction with the 500k Volume Control potentiometer

hopefully this explanation helps clear up any issues

thanks again for your willingness to engage

[newey]

following this understanding, the wiring as shown, the left wafers should create :

a Bridge Humbucker in position 1 (BNL connected to BSH with BNH to output)

a Bridge South Single Coil in position 2 (BNL connected to BNH with BSH to output)

a Bridge North Single Coil in position 3 (BNL connected to GND with BNH to output)

a Bridge Humbucker in positions 4&5 (BNL connected to BSH) - as mentioned previously, this is optional given that the output in these positions does not involve the Bridge (4=MH and 5=NH)

Yes, that all checks out, as jhng said earlier (and I concur)

in positions 4 & 5, BSH is actually connected to BNL to configure the bridge in humbucking mode

This statement is what confused me. It reads as if bridge HB should be position 5. In any event, I also concur with jhng- why connect those wires to 4 and 5 on the upper left hand pole at all? Superfluous connections aren't "optional", they're not doing anything- and the less soldering one can do, the better.

the intent of the upper right wafer is to connect the 500k resistor from the output to ground in positions 2 thru 5 (the Single Coil positions)
to create an equivalent 250k load on the pickups in conjunction with the 500k Volume Control potentiometer

Earlier, you said "across the lugs of the volume pot". But that's not what you have here. The resistor is fixed (in positions 2-5), so it is in circuit at all times in those positions, not just as you turn the Volume pot down. I think that's going to muddy up your single coil sounds significantly, but perhaps try a Spice simulation to see the effects first.

I'd just leave the volume pot at 500K and not worry about it. If the single coil positions are too bright-sounding (which I doubt), reducing the tone control to about "8" would solve it. If you're really concerned about this, get a 250K/500K dual-gang pot.

[unreg]

Dec 1, 2021 14:28:24 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

Resistance between output picks and ground is 250K but between output and output pick up is still going to be its value

As you said it's Potentiometer..
Halting a resister is putting two same value resistor in parallel.
As a potentiometer is two variable resistors ever side of each other



I'd need dual pot and then need two poles on the 4P5T .maybe possible if you change the North bridge in the mode for a South bridge again

Note: My guitar’s single gang 500K tone-pot has 2 untrimmed 1meg 5% tolerance resistors soldered between lugs 1 and 3. Those resistors change the single gang into 250K. Works wonderfully for me!


EDIT: My tone pot’s resistors are soldered in parallel, like @angellahash noted.

FINAL-EDIT: The untrimmed resistors drop change the treble slightly; I love the untrimmed tone! (My F Spaced Dimarzio Blues Bucker increased treble, in a terrible way for me, considerably.)

There is a definite tone difference for untrimmed resistors for me; even if no one agrees. 🙂

[newey]

Dec 2, 2021 12:38:33 GMT -5 unreg said:

Note: My guitar’s single gang 500K tone-pot has 2 1meg 5% tolerance resistors soldered between lugs 1 and 3. Those resistors change the single gang into 250K. Works wonderfully for me!

Yes, the resistor(s) are wired across the outer lugs of the pot. But that isn't what axedoctor wants, he wants to change the pot's value for only some of the switch positions, not all the time. To do so would require switching the resistor onto/off of those outer lugs for those switch positions (meaning another switch).

As I said above, there's way too much worry about pot values, it's a fairly minor issue as far as I am concerned. With 500K pots, single coil pups will be slightly brighter than with a 250K pot, but the difference is fairly minimal. I'd be willing to bet that, if I removed those 2 resistors from your volume pot without telling you I had done so, then handed the guitar back to you, you would be happily playing it and never notice that those resistors were gone.

Bear in mind that ol' Leo used 1MΩ pots back in the 1950s, no one complains that their vintage Tele is too bright . . .

[unreg]

newey, I would definitely notice the difference with the resistors, only on my tone pot, removed… 🙂 (my final-edit, above, happened after your post)

[Deleted]

Was to point out that one resistor over the whole potentiometer was pointless..

But if you didn't get I guess I didn't make the point oh well

[axedoctor]

Hi again - 

I have acquiesced wrt positions 4&5 for the Bridge Humbucker control section and will leave it fully disconnected as suggested

regarding use of the 500k resistor, it is likely that I did a poor job of communicating the intent as it is not meant to actually adjust the Volume Control potentiometer,
but merely to create a 250k load on the single coil outputs (positions 2-5) while maintaining a 500k load for the humbucker (position 1)

with the circuit as drawn, I will have the option of adjusting the effective load on each of the pickup selections as desired ("right" will be what "sounds right" to paraphrase Lindy Fralin) 

thanks again for all of your thoughtful feedback

[newey]

Well, first off, bear in mind that the total resistence will not be 500K for your HB or 250K for the single coils- because you haven't added in the resistance of the tone control. With the 500K Vol and 250K tone pot, the overall resistance is about 166K&Omega, and with the extra resistor the single coils are seeing 125K- the difference between the 2 loads is therefore only about 41K, not 250K.

Again, I think this is a solution in search of a problem. On Fender's "Fat Strat" models, they are wired with a separate Bridge tone control and a neck/middle tone control. They use 1M&Omega tone pots for both tone controls, and a 500K volume pot, so when the HB is in circuit at position 1, the total resistance is 330KΩ. At position 4, which is the bridge split-coil + middle, the total is 250K. So, for the single coil position, they get 250K because both tone pots are in circuit. But the difference is still only 80K.

But, hey, do as you wish, it's your guitar