Help Request: Humbucker Coil Split with Out of Phase wiring

[patricknuts]

Hi

I understand that in the image below, when coil split is activated, the phase switch act as a selector for Coil A (in phase) and Coil B (Out of phase):








Alternatively, if I wire the terminal 1 of the coil split to Green wire(South Finish) instead to Ground, this way, the Coil B (South Start and finish) is shorted:








With this configuration, It seems that when coil split is activated, the Phase Switch become a Simple Phase Switch and no longer Selecting Coil, the options become Coil A (in phase), Coil A (Out of phase).
I want to wire it this way because I prefer having two outer coil in the single coil out of phase position, instead of having inner coil on the bridge.

My concern is, will there be any potential problems by shorting the B coil and sending them to the hot in the out of phase position? like creating extra noise or signal loss.

Thanks for your help!

[Deleted]

I don't have a problem with both ends tied to the same point, to turn off.

Puzzled why you have a on/off/on switch in the first stage when on/off is the same

[patricknuts]

Thank you! The first switch should be an on-on switch on a push-pull pot, it was just overlooked when borrowing the image somewhere.

Another solution that I can think of is using PRS's "Moving the Hot" Approach.

But it doesn't work for my circuit since I will put a Series/Parallel before the Coil Split. It cut off the signal when Both Parallel and Coil Split are activated.

[patricknuts]

Here is "Moving the Hot" stuff if anyone is interested.

[Deleted]

AHH push pull

Hmm two added options then
On/on/on and have North/humbucker/South and coil flip (only becomes phasing when you have another pickup in a different phase)

Or On/Off/On and you can coil flip and turn it off (no need to be in a selection switching)

[patricknuts]

So here's what I got for now.

When Coil Split and Out of Phase are activated at the same time, It should activate the outer bridge coil out of phase with the outer neck coil. instead of inner bridge coil out of phase with the outer neck coil




[*Edit: sorry for the inconvience caused, I will post a corrected diagram soon.]

[newey]

patricknuts:

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Your last post is indecipherable to me without some added explanation. I have no idea what the various colors of the coils mean, so I can't tell what combinations you are trying to achieve.

As for your diagram, it is incomplete. But, just for starters, look at the BV push/pull. With the knob pulled up, NS and NF are shorted togehter, and SS and SF are likewise shorted together, so you would get no output in this position. With the switch "down", we don't know what's happening as the wiring isn't complete. And, while there is input to the phase switch, there is no output, so no way to tell what's happening there.

If you want us to help with a diagram, we will be happy to do so, but first you need to define what you want the guitar to do. So far, I'm seeing 2 humbuckers and 4 push/pull pots; I'm not seeing a selector switch to select between the pickups. Is there going to be one?

4 push/pull pots plus a 3-way selector (if there is to be one), with out-of-phase and coil splits, is sounding much like the classic "Jimmy Page LP" mod. If so, no need to reinvent the wheel, we have the definitive version of that right here, thanks to JohnH.

As a general rule, if you are going to be splitting 2 humbuckers to single coil operation, you want to select the screw coil from one and the slug coil from the other (assuming identical pickups are used) so as to maintain hum-cancellation when both are split. If there is to be a phase switch as well, however, we would lose hum-cancellation when out of phase and with both pickups split. So, the idea is to swap the coil being split so as to maximize hum-cancellation when both in- and out-of-phase. That's why the first diagram you posted does that.

The PRS diagram you posted is for their 3-conductor humbuckers; assuming you are using standard 4-conductor humbuckers (as your diagram shows) the PRS diagrams are not going to be helpful.

[jhng]

Hello. It sounds like what you are aiming for is achievable. However, as Newey says, it would be helpful to have a brief explanation of how the whole set up is intended to work. That way you will get more focused and useful input.

My guess, based on your table, is that red means HBs in series and yellow means HBs in parallel and grey means out of phase. So:

HH guitar with two vols, two tones and a three-way selector (like a classic Les Paul) with:

Bridge Vol - pulls to put the Bridge HB in parallel with itself rather than series
Neck Vol - pulls to put the Neck HB in parallel with itself rather than series
Bridge Tone - phase-switch on the Bridge pickup (but does half out of phase when the Bridge pickup is in parallel mode??)
Neck Tone - splits both HBs simultaneously to give the outer coils, but only if they are in series mode. If a pickup is in parallel mode it has no effect.

Is that the switching logic that you are aiming for? I think it should certainly be possible.

[patricknuts]

Jan 1, 2022 16:35:50 GMT -5 jhng said:

Hello. It sounds like what you are aiming for is achievable. However, as Newey says, it would be helpful to have a brief explanation of how the whole set up is intended to work. That way you will get more focused and useful input.

My guess, based on your table, is that red means HBs in series and yellow means HBs in parallel and grey means out of phase. So:

HH guitar with two vols, two tones and a three-way selector (like a classic Les Paul) with:

Bridge Vol - pulls to put the Bridge HB in parallel with itself rather than series
Neck Vol - pulls to put the Neck HB in parallel with itself rather than series
Bridge Tone - phase-switch on the Bridge pickup (but does half out of phase when the Bridge pickup is in parallel mode??)
Neck Tone - splits both HBs simultaneously to give the outer coils, but only if they are in series mode. If a pickup is in parallel mode it has no effect.

Is that the switching logic that you are aiming for? I think it should certainly be possible.

Yes, you are correct about the color of the table. Red means series, yellow means parallel, grey means out of phase.

Only some clarification for the Bridge tone:
The bridge tone should always put the whole bridge pickup out of phase. That half yellow half grey stuff indicates the pickup is in parallel and out of phase with the other one.

Sorry for the messed up wiring diagram if it caused any inconvinence that I might have caused becaused of that wiring. And thank you for your help!

[patricknuts]

This is a, I believe, corrected version of my wiring :






I only draw the switch part to prevent a messy diagram.

Its a 2V-2T-3Way.

BV: Series/Parallel for Bridge
NV: Series/Parallel for Neck

BT: Out of phase for Bridge
NT: Coil Split for both Neck and Bridge

When both BT and NT is active, it should activate both outer coil of the bridge and neck, out of phase with each other.


For the wire color code, I splitted the wire of the humbucker puckup on my own. So, I don't really know if this is a correct way to connect them. But I follow this color coding when I was making the diy 4-wire pickup.






It's the option 1 of this post. I have no idea if it's correct way to wire it or not.

[newey]

Jan 1, 2022 22:39:57 GMT -5 patricknuts said:

I only draw the switch part to prevent a messy diagram

That's fine, and understood.

I assume that the light blue wires coming from BT and NV, and which are not the ones labeled "to hot" are going to ground?

Assuming that is correct, you're getting closer but still not there.

First, your coil split switfh will only work when that pickup's series/parallel switch is set to the series setting. You won't get any coil splitting when the switch is set to parallel, becasue the split switch isn't connected when each pickup's series/parallel switch is set to parallel. I figure that this is probably not what you want to have happen.

Also, the wiring on BV is wrong for the parallel setting. When pulled up, BV connects SS (green wire) and NF (white wire, grey as shown) together, but doesn't connect them to ground or to hot. Compare the wiring of BV and NV and you'll see what I mean.

[patricknuts]

The light blue without the label "to hot" will be grounded.

Actually I want the Coil Split to function only when the pickup is in Series.

That way it creates more sound choice. But I am still happy to learn how to make it split in parallel mode, one method that I can think of is by grounding the (NS) black wire before it reach the parallel/series switch. but that might not work for the bridge since it has a phase switch. It seems to cut the signal when Coil Splitted and Out of Phase.


For the parallel position of BV, I think the exit point of the signal is on the BT phase switch since I connected NS and SS to either side of the phase switch.
When the Bridge is splitted and out of phase (BV BT VT activated), the ”NS NF SF“ goes to Hot and "SS" goes to ground. Preventing the phase switch act as a selector of inner/outer coil (only NF SF to ground).


Please correct me if I made any mistake, Thank you!

[jhng]

I think your new diagram looks okay, actually, given what you are intending. However, what is a bit confusing is the way you have shown the connections from the phase switch to the Bridge parallel. It would be clearer showing those wires going to the lugs themselves.

Also, on the coil split, I think you have that wired so that the split will be operative when the push/pull is down rather than up. You might want to tweak that so p/p down is normal humbucker.

[newey]

Jan 2, 2022 0:48:24 GMT -5 patricknuts said:

For the parallel position of BV, I think the exit point of the signal is on the BT phase switch since I connected NS and SS to either side of the phase switch.

OK, you're right, I missed that. And if you only want the coil splits to work when in series, then OK.

However, you should integrate the pickup selector into the diagram just to be sure that's correct as well.