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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 12, 2022 23:07:17 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I want to install the bright switch mod on my Stratocaster, and I found this on Lindy Fralin's website, which I looks absolutely perfect for what I have on my Strat.  Yup my tone pot is a push pull, just like this one. My question is: Where do I put the treble bleed mod here? (Cap and resistor in parallel). Obviously it goes on one of the lugs of the volume potentiometer, but which lugs to I solder the treble bleed mod's terminals too? For reference: "Bottom lug" has the tone cap, middle lug goes to output jack, and top lug goes to the tone pot. Thanks everyone! |
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Post by newey on Jan 13, 2022 6:09:29 GMT -5
First off, the diagram omits this as being understood, but the upper lug of the volume pot (where the black wire from the tone pot connects) needs to be grounded, usually to the pot shell. The circuit shows grounding to the base of the push/pull switch (which must then be grounded to the circuit's grounding point), but without also grounding the volume pot's 3rd lug, your volume pot won't work properly when in "bright mode"
The circuit makes things brighter by removing the load of the tone pot from the circuit. More brightness could be achieved by removing both pots from the circuit, making it a "direct out" switch.
Your treble bleed should be wired between the lower lug of the volume pot, where the switch is connected, and the wiper (center lug).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 7:31:24 GMT -5
in between the "From Switch" and "To Output Jack"
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 10:38:41 GMT -5
The circuit makes things brighter by removing the load of the tone pot from the circuit. More brightness could be achieved by removing both pots from the circuit, making it a "direct out" switch. Wait-- I thought this circuit was already like that: it disconnects the volume AND tone knob from the circuit. This is what it says on Lindy Fralin's website: "When pushed down, your guitar is working as normal. When you pull up, you remove the Ground off of your volume pot and tone pot. This is the same as sending your guitar’s signal straight to the output jack." The underlined thing is what I would like. I think that's why the volume pot is not grounded at all-- it's so that in the "up or bright" position, the volume pot would be disconnected, not doing anything (won't work, and that's cool. Same for the tone pot). My question now is, I have another tone pot, it's the third one (this is a Strat). The way my thing works is that there's a volume pot, a MASTER tone knob for all three pickups (this is the push pull one) and a tone knob just for the bridge. Do I have to take this third pot into consideration if I want to send my signal from the pickups straight to the jack? Thanks so much! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 10:39:23 GMT -5
Your treble bleed should be wired between the lower lug of the volume pot, where the switch is connected, and the wiper (center lug). in between the "From Switch" and "To Output Jack" Thank you so much, both of you! |
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Post by newey on Jan 13, 2022 10:55:15 GMT -5
"When pushed down, your guitar is working as normal. When you pull up, you remove the Ground off of your volume pot and tone pot. This is the same as sending your guitar’s signal straight to the output jack." I will agree with that statement, with the added proviso that the Volume pot is full clockwise. I'll let others weigh in, but I think if you turn the volume pot down a bit (or a lot), that will no longer be true. What you have is a volume pot wired as a rheostat (2 lugs, like a tone pot) rather than as a potentiometer (all 3 lugs wired). How that will work in operation, I dunno, but there is a reason why we don't wire our volume pots as rheostats. reTrEaD or sumgai will have the answers to that one. Yes, at least as far as the bridge pickup is concerned, and as far as any other pickups that are in parallel with the bridge. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 11:01:44 GMT -5
Yes, at least as far as the bridge pickup is concerned, and as far as any other pickups that are in parallel with the bridge. All I really want from this mod is a switch that I can pull that will send whichever pickup I'm on's signal to the jack, regardless of what setting the knobs are at. I think I'll get rid of the third tone knob, that only controls the bridge pickup. Never liked it, and it will just add an extra complication, as pointed out by you. Thank you so much! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 11:04:01 GMT -5
Oh yeah but will taking out the third knob from the circuit make the guitar overall brighter? Because I'm removing a load? Or is this false? Only the bridge pickup will be brighter? Because the bridge pickup (and any other bridge pickup associated positions) had TWO 250k resistors on it (master tone knob and random third tone knob)! Right? Oh my god, maybe my bridge pickup will be brighter now that I remove that third knob!
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Post by newey on Jan 13, 2022 12:22:51 GMT -5
Oh yeah but will taking out the third knob from the circuit make the guitar overall brighter? Yes, in any positions where that pot is active. The differences in bypassing just one or two pots are fairly subtle, the "blower switch" where you bypass all the pots and go straight to output makes a discernable difference however. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 13, 2022 12:24:17 GMT -5
The short answer is: When removing the ground connection to the CCW lug of the volume pot, if the volume is not rotated fully clockwise, the amount of resistance between the wiper and CW lug will be in series with the output. Not good, although that would be somewhat mitigated with a parallel treble bleed. It would be very easy to completely bypass a master volume and tone and provide a direct connection from the pickup selector to the output jack with the DPDT switch. One pole connects to the pickup selector. The other pole connects to the output jack. Having a second tone pot that's switched in when Bridge or Bridge+Middle is selected complicates matters but only slightly. The "tone" side of the selector can be wired to the CW lug of the volume pot, so it is also bypassed, in the "blower" mode. But the inherent problem with having two tone pots in the circuit at the same time in non-blower mode still remains. The additional loading (even with both tones at max) will dull the tone a bit. Maybe not a big deal on Bridge only, as the bridge pickup on a strat has a tendency to sound very brittle. But on the Bridge+Middle position, not good at all. Other options would be to have only a master tone and repurpose the third knob or not use it at all. OR use one tone pot in the Neck and Neck+Middle positions and use the other tone pot for the Bridge and Bridge+Middle positions. The Middle only position would have no tone control. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 12:36:06 GMT -5
I will agree with that statement, with the added proviso that the Volume pot is full clockwise. I'll let others weigh in, but I think if you turn the volume pot down a bit (or a lot), that will no longer be true. What you have is a volume pot wired as a rheostat (2 lugs, like a tone pot) rather than as a potentiometer (all 3 lugs wired). How that will work in operation, I dunno, but there is a reason why we don't wire our volume pots as rheostats. reTrEaD or sumgai will have the answers to that one. You are absolutely 100% right! I contacted Fralin, and he said that yes, the knob NOT at 10 will sound different, it will have a weird function. But at 10, it will act as if the pickups were going straight to output which is cool! I might probably do this, but I have to know, got to know, if this will work-- then I'll be satisfied lol: I have another blower switch related thing. I read about this Blower mod where you pull on a knob and it goes straight to the bridge pickup, bypassing the knobs and 5 way switch completely. So if you are on, for example, the neck pickup with tone knob at 7 and volume at 8, you pull that push pull knob up and now you are on the bridge pickup full volume, with no potentiometer load! Can I do this with this 10 way switch configuration I got here:  Two knobs, one volume, one master tone. The master tone knob is the push pull. When I pull up this knob I'd like for the middle pickup to be selected, and the rest of the circuitry bypassed straight to the output jack. Thank you! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 12:50:29 GMT -5
The short answer is: When removing the ground connection to the CCW lug of the volume pot, if the volume is not rotated fully clockwise, the amount of resistance between the wiper and CW lug will be in series with the output. Not good, although that would be somewhat mitigated with a parallel treble bleed. It would be very easy to completely bypass a master volume and tone and provide a direct connection from the pickup selector to the output jack with the DPDT switch. One pole connects to the pickup selector. The other pole connects to the output jack. Having a second tone pot that's switched in when Bridge or Bridge+Middle is selected complicates matters but only slightly. The "tone" side of the selector can be wired to the CW lug of the volume pot, so it is also bypassed, in the "blower" mode. Thank you so so much for this comprehensive answer! This helps quite a bit!! It lines up to what Fralin was saying, I still think it's a good mod, but you only use it when you want the loudest and brightest sound possible. It's like an "extra". I like this. But I like that middle pickup only idea better I think, because it's probably more useful. Playing a rhythm part, ok solo time? Just pull up the tone knob and there you have it: middle pickup full volume, no load. I talked about it in the reply above this one, if you could take a look at it reTrEaD I'd really appreciate it! Thank you so much. But the inherent problem with having two tone pots in the circuit at the same time in non-blower mode still remains. The additional loading (even with both tones at max) will dull the tone a bit. Maybe not a big deal on Bridge only, as the bridge pickup on a strat has a tendency to sound very brittle. But on the Bridge+Middle position, not good at all. Other options would be to have only a master tone and repurpose the third knob or not use it at all. OR use one tone pot in the Neck and Neck+Middle positions and use the other tone pot for the Bridge and Bridge+Middle positions. The Middle only position would have no tone control. Exactly! Honestly I didn't mind the bridge and middle position much, it definitely was a rounder less chimey tone, but it was strong and powerful. I didn't like how the bridge pickup sounded-- I was using a Telecaster bridge pickup, and I don't know it seemed to be missing something. I'm using a P90 now, and I'm going to take out that third tone knob. Excited to hear it! Thanks for this as well! |
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Post by jhng on Jan 13, 2022 15:48:02 GMT -5
You can adapt that Freeway switch model to add a Blower switch for the Middle pickup using the diagram below. Basically you use the DPDT on the push/pull switch to connect the hot of the Middle pickup (which usually goes to the pickup selector) directly to the hot of the jack (which usually goes to the volume pot). This will work as a blower switch on almost all guitar wiring diagrams, providing that the negative side of the relevant pickup already goes straight to the ground (as it does in the freeway diagram and most parallel wired setups). If the negative of the relevant pickup does something else (e.g. going into series switching or similar) then you also need to sort out that side as well.  |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 13, 2022 16:15:16 GMT -5
You can adapt that Freeway switch model to add a Blower switch for the Middle pickup using the diagram below. Basically you use the DPDT on the push/pull switch to connect the hot of the Middle pickup (which usually goes to the pickup selector) directly to the hot of the jack (which usually goes to the volume pot). This will work as a blower switch on almost all guitar wiring diagrams, providing that the negative side of the relevant pickup already goes straight to the ground (as it does in the freeway diagram and most parallel wired setups). If the negative of the relevant pickup does something else (e.g. going into series switching or similar) then you also need to sort out that side as well. THANKS SO MUCH! Going to try this out right now. So the "to the volume pot" means to the wiper (middle) lug of the volume pot, correct? And "to selector switch" is wherever the middle pickup normally goes. Luckily, and I mean VERY Luckily for me, the middle pickup's negative wire goes STRAIGHT TO GROUND as it is soldered to the volume pot!!! Extremely lucky because the other pickups' negative wires go on the selector switch! |
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Post by jhng on Jan 13, 2022 16:26:56 GMT -5
THANKS SO MUCH! Going to try this out right now. So the "to the volume pot" means to the wiper (middle) lug of the volume pot, correct? And "to selector switch" is wherever the middle pickup normally goes. Luckily, and I mean VERY Luckily for me, the middle pickup's negative wire goes STRAIGHT TO GROUND as it is soldered to the volume pot!!! Extremely lucky because the other pickups' negative wires go on the selector switch! Yes -- you have to disconnect the Middle hot from the pickup selector switch, connect it to the blower switch and then connect the blower switch back to the same place on the selector switch. Same for the jack side. You disconnect the jack from the wiper of the volume pot, connect it to the blower switch and then connect the blower switch back to the vol pot wiper. Don't forget the small jumper wire between the last two lugs on the blower switch. Otherwise it will just be a kill switch... I thought that if you had followed the Freeway diagram exactly, then the Middle negative would be going straight to ground, so I am glad to hear that is it wired that way in practice. Good luck and I hope it works. |
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Post by sumgai on Jan 14, 2022 22:33:51 GMT -5
tds, I need to interject something here. First, all of the above is correct, in my estimation. But where I think a problem will occur is in jhng's diagram, specifically the labels. To be sure, the diagram is correct, but if you're only half-way along the path to Senior Switch Wirer, it might be easy to misinterpret jh's intent. (After all, you did post back with questions for clarity.) Where he said "To Hot of Middle pickup", he should've said " From Hot of Middle pup". And where he said "To Volume pot", he should've said " From Volume pot wiper". Everything jhng said in his follow-up post makes even better sense, in light of my suggested label changes. HTH sumgai |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 17, 2022 16:42:52 GMT -5
tds, I need to interject something here. First, all of the above is correct, in my estimation. But where I think a problem will occur is in jhng's diagram, specifically the labels. To be sure, the diagram is correct, but if you're only half-way along the path to Senior Switch Wirer, it might be easy to misinterpret jh's intent. (After all, you did post back with questions for clarity.) Where he said "To Hot of Middle pickup", he should've said " From Hot of Middle pup". And where he said "To Volume pot", he should've said " From Volume pot wiper". Everything jhng said in his follow-up post makes even better sense, in light of my suggested label changes. HTH sumgai Thank you very much! I figured this out, jhng was pretty clear when I asked him some follow questions, and you just made it even easier for me. Thank you both, and thank you all, I'm soldering right now, can't wait to hear the sounds! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 26, 2022 0:09:49 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I finally got everything wired up. Everything is pretty awesome-- save for two things. The in between positions (neck and middle, middle and bridge) are out of phase, and the volume pot is acting really funky. Here's exactly how my electronics look like:  The volume pot: So when I turn down the knob, there's still uh signal coming through the amp. So, that's strange. All the way down it's pretty crackly, sound is really bad. I thought of two possibilities: One, I soldered the crap out of that thing, it got loadsss of temperature from the soldering iron, because I was trying to wick off solder of it (the thing was completely covered in solder because back when I didn't know how to solder... well things got messy when I tried to solder the ground wires XD). Two, something is off with the wiring. Oh and a third, something is disconnected? Now for the out of phase stuff: There's nothing I can do here to rectify it right? If the middle pickup is out of phase with the two others, I can't reverse the leads right? Because then the blower switch mod wouldn't work. Anyways, thanks for listening to all this. You guys rock. And are super geniuses too. Love, YourDireStrat |
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Post by unreg on Jan 26, 2022 2:55:32 GMT -5
The volume pot: So when I turn down the knob, there's still uh signal coming through the amp. So, that's strange. All the way down it's pretty crackly, sound is really bad. I thought of two possibilities: One, I soldered the crap out of that thing, it got loadsss of temperature from the soldering iron, because I was trying to wick off solder of it (the thing was completely covered in solder because back when I didn't know how to solder... well things got messy when I tried to solder the ground wires XD). This sounds kind of something I did… but, I am shaking my head at “One” bc the noise continues to happen even after turning vol pot to off. Before proceeding to 2 and 3, read newey’s wisdom: The lesson to be learned here is to isolate that it is, in fact, your guitar that is the source of the noise. Process of elimination, swap the cable first (a dodgy cable is always #1 on my hit parade when trying to track down noise), swap amps second, swap circuits third, start with a straight signal chain to the amp, no pedals, etc. If there is no change with any of these iterations, then, and only then, should we conclude that the guitar is the source. Two, something is off with the wiring. Perhaps, but “third” seems a better place to start, for me. Oh and a third, something is disconnected? You know how to solder now. Maybe you don’t know about checking the quality of solder spots with a multimeter? You can administer a continuity test with your multimeter. If you receive a 0 reading, that’s a good solder connection(s) between your positive and negative cable tips. Is a jack solder spot not great? EDIT: Measuring resistance with a multimeter can be better than measuring continuity, bc you’ll receive a value… closest to 0 is best. I believe continuity testing just returns a good beep or bad silence. If a solder spot returns a high resistance reading, apply some heat to remelt that solder; or perhaps it would be even better to remove the solder spot with a solder removing strip, and apply a new solder spot. Hope this helps, if newey’s wisdom quoted above didn’t solve your noise problem. |
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Post by jhng on Jan 26, 2022 4:17:13 GMT -5
Now for the out of phase stuff: There's nothing I can do here to rectify it right? If the middle pickup is out of phase with the two others, I can't reverse the leads right? Because then the blower switch mod wouldn't work. The out of phase issue should be easy to fix. Your middle pickup has two wires out of it, right? One goes to ground and one goes to the blower switch. Disconnect those wires from the blower and the ground, respectively, and swap them over. In the freeway switch diagram, the hot is coloured red and the ground is coloured grey/black, which is the colouring I followed on the blower diagram. However, it might be that your middle pickup has different colour codes for hot and ground. Regarding the issue with noise and crackles, as unreg says, try first to isolate the issue. It sounds like it could be a faulty ground connection on the third lug of the volume pot. Also make sure that as far as possible other electrical equipment nearby is turned off. It is amazing how much hum you can pick up from other kit. Incidentally, if the crackles etc disappear when you pull the blower switch, then that is a good indication that it is in fact the volume, switch or tone, rather than something extraneous (dodgy lead etc). |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 26, 2022 13:22:52 GMT -5
Thank you, both of you!
For the out of phase thing: wait it's that easy? I did that before for other electronic set ups, but even for this one? I thought if I reversed them, when I pushed up the push pull knob to activate the Blower Mod, then the "ground" wire of the pickup would be going to the jack, and the "hot wire" would be grounded--- OR MAYBE THERE'S NO DEDICATED PICKUP "HOT" AND "GROUND" LEADS!
My pickup has a beige lead, and a black lead. I used the beige lead as the "hot" of the pickup, the black one as the ground. Are you saying that the regardless of the colour, ANY of those two leads can be either a "hot" or a ground"??
If so, then yes, reversing the leads will still make my blower switch mod work!
And reversing the leads would cure the out of phase stuff, correct?
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 26, 2022 14:06:59 GMT -5
Also, kind of random:
If the volume pot I have truly is broken (possible with all the head it withstanded, maybe something melted inside), I thankfully have another potentiometer to replace it with.
However, it's a no-load potentiometer. Is this ok, it should work the same right? And at 10, I guess it's load will be removed making the circuit a little brighter, right?
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Post by newey on Jan 26, 2022 16:54:49 GMT -5
OR MAYBE THERE'S NO DEDICATED PICKUP "HOT" AND "GROUND" LEADS! Your pickup generates an AC signal. "Hot" and "ground" are more accurately used to describe DC circuits. In reality, the hot and ground from your pickups are alternating at the frequency of the vibrating string(s). We use the terms "hot" and "ground" just becasue we have to have a way to designate one end of the AC circuit from the other. (ChrisK used to call them "hot" and "not hot" to emphasis that there is no absolute ground, as there is in a DC circuit). Wire colors won't help you sort out the phasing unless the pickups are identical. That's why we usually recommend testing for proper phasing if there is any uncertainty. Yep. No-Load pots are more usually used as tone controls. The transition from the no-load portion of the track to the resistive portion can be annoying when used as a volume pot. There's no reason you can't try it, but if the goal is to minimize the number of times you have to go back inside the thing, the few dollars a new pot would cost would be worth the extra time and trouble if you decide you dislike the no-load as a volume. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 26, 2022 17:14:12 GMT -5
Thank you so much newey! And yup-- it was that easy. Everything is working flawlessly!! Incredible sounds, all in phase. And wow, boy does that Blower Switch make a difference! The middle pickup is so different without all the load on it! I reversed the leads, and the face is great. Oh and the volume pot-- jhng was right! He has a knack for this stuff: the ground connection on the third lug was faulty. Re-did it, it looks much nicer now too, less solder (love this solder wick) and works. Perfectly. Thank you all for the help. I couldn't be more satisfied. Now to figure out the wiring of my Broadcaster project XD guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/9686/idea-telecaster-tone-blend-all, for reference. This guitar sounds pretty cool now, and it's thanks to you! Sincerely, YourDireStrat |
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Post by unreg on Jan 26, 2022 18:39:15 GMT -5
Sry, by “a solder removing strip” I meant Desoldering Braid. Nice find! Solder Wick sounds interesting and seems to clearly work splendidly too. 😀 |
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 26, 2022 18:53:06 GMT -5
A "solder sucker" is a worthwhile investment. Works quicker and easier. Pickups should really be provided with a separate "chassis" ground wire of some sort. It's necessary for OoP options.
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 26, 2022 20:35:24 GMT -5
Yes, solder wick worked out in the end, but I had to put A LOT of heat. Like it was definitely over 5 minutes of steaming hot soldering iron and solder on that poor potentiometer as I was trying to soak all the excess solder with the wick (braid). I like the solder wick, but it's gets fully "soaked" fairly easy, I don't think it's the best option for big solder puddles. It's great though for terminals on PCB boards and on potentiometer lugs-- super cool to see how the solder "climbs" on to the wick. But I would imagine a solder sucker would be great at removing solder puddles!
Regardless, I think either a solder wick or a solder sucker-- anything that can REMOVE solder-- is something everyone should have. Not like my opinion is worth anything, I'm a complete amateur!
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Post by unreg on Jan 27, 2022 3:33:48 GMT -5
Aah, so Desoldering Braid is exactly the same as Solder Wick. 😱 5 minutes? Hmmm. Melted solder flows toward heat; so, if you simply sandwich the braid between the clean tinned tip of your iron and the solder to be removed, the process finishes pretty quickly with an appropriately hot soldering iron. The melted solder instantly moves toward the braid bc it, the braid, is now hotter than the soldered surface. Just keep your iron’s tip in one place over the soldered surface; then slowly pull the wick/braid, after a small section heats up, underneath the iron as it presses that braid against the solder to be removed; as the braid slides between, it will suck up the solder. The braid heats quickly so protect your fingers if trying this.  |
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Post by jhng on Jan 27, 2022 10:18:28 GMT -5
Thank you so much newey! And yup-- it was that easy. Everything is working flawlessly!! Incredible sounds, all in phase. And wow, boy does that Blower Switch make a difference! The middle pickup is so different without all the load on it! I reversed the leads, and the face is great. Oh and the volume pot-- jhng was right! He has a knack for this stuff: the ground connection on the third lug was faulty. Re-did it, it looks much nicer now too, less solder (love this solder wick) and works. Perfectly. Thank you all for the help. I couldn't be more satisfied. Now to figure out the wiring of my Broadcaster project XD guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/9686/idea-telecaster-tone-blend-all, for reference. This guitar sounds pretty cool now, and it's thanks to you! Sincerely, YourDireStrat Well done on getting it all fixed up. Glad it worked. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jan 27, 2022 11:24:18 GMT -5
Only worked because of you and the others. Thank you and everyone!
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