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Post by David Mitchell on Feb 22, 2022 22:17:05 GMT -5
I'm a bit stuck. I've been reading a lot and know some of the things I want to try, at least, and the major components I need. But what about the hookup wire, the capacitors, and the resistors? I've been planning a Mouser order. After a lot of picking through, I was planning to use Panasonic film caps, and probably still will where available, but found that I apparently need to use the ceramic disc caps for some values. And then I started looking for resistors and was confronted with this:  I don't even know which category to start with! And then there's the wire: Pushback? Multi-core?... And where to buy that?Sorry, I'm a bit lost in the weeds! |
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Post by gckelloch on Feb 22, 2022 23:04:11 GMT -5
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Post by David Mitchell on Mar 2, 2022 17:36:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions, gckelloch! I'm planning to order from Mouser anyway (pots, at least), and keep poking around. Are these sorts of parts suitable choices? I was thinking I would want some shielded multi-conductor wire to run from the main control cavity up to the pickup selector cavity, but I apparently would need to buy 100' at minimum from Mouser, so I probably am gonna look somewhere else for that. My initial soldering attempts have shown me that yes, I really need something to help me hold stuff. I'm thinking about splashing out for the QuadHands WorkBench Mini.... |
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 2, 2022 21:17:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions, gckelloch! I'm planning to order from Mouser anyway (pots, at least), and keep poking around. Are these sorts of parts suitable choices? I was thinking I would want some shielded multi-conductor wire to run from the main control cavity up to the pickup selector cavity, but I apparently would need to buy 100' at minimum from Mouser, so I probably am gonna look somewhere else for that. My initial soldering attempts have shown me that yes, I really need something to help me hold stuff. I'm thinking about splashing out for the QuadHands WorkBench Mini.... Axial caps are generally better for guitar wiring. The leads are more flexible. The material doesn't really matter for guitar -- V is far too low to cause any resonance or distortion, but disparate opinions on tonal quality abound. Someone else might know if ceramic or film are less likely to burn out from soldering. I attach alligator clips b4 components to sink heat. Shielded multi-wire makes sense. Can probably be found on Amazon. I dunno. The Stew Mac "Helping Hands Soldering Holder" is cheaper and has a magnifying glass. I don't have such a device myself, so I don't know what's best. |
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Post by David Mitchell on Jun 26, 2022 20:46:54 GMT -5
Back after a long delay.... Axial caps are generally better for guitar wiring. The leads are more flexible. The material doesn't really matter for guitar -- V is far too low to cause any resonance or distortion, but disparate opinions on tonal quality abound. Someone else might know if ceramic or film are less likely to burn out from soldering. I attach alligator clips b4 components to sink heat. I thought axial resistors and radial caps were used in guitars. No? I started by looking at the Orange Drop caps, which are described as "radial," so I looked for others of that type. I have managed to pull apart and resolder some of the original components from my guitar without destroying anything — yet — and I've used the alligator clip heatsink technique where I could. Thanks.  |
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Post by gckelloch on Jun 27, 2022 2:27:27 GMT -5
Back after a long delay.... Axial caps are generally better for guitar wiring. The leads are more flexible. The material doesn't really matter for guitar -- V is far too low to cause any resonance or distortion, but disparate opinions on tonal quality abound. Someone else might know if ceramic or film are less likely to burn out from soldering. I attach alligator clips b4 components to sink heat. I thought axial resistors and radial caps were used in guitars. No? I started by looking at the Orange Drop caps, which are described as "radial," so I looked for others of that type. I have managed to pull apart and resolder some of the original components from my guitar without destroying anything — yet — and I've used the alligator clip heatsink technique where I could. Thanks. Guitar players assume Orange Drop make a difference in passive guitar circuitry because they are heralded in active circuitry. There's no objective evidence or reasoning for that conclusion, but there's ample confirmation bias. You can certainly use radial caps, but axial cap leads are usually more flexible. I used to get parts cheap from BYOC, but their stock is running low. |
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Post by thetragichero on Jun 27, 2022 9:02:29 GMT -5
chiclet caps work just fine and are dirt cheap
resistor-wise the composition doesn't particularly matter as you have at least two rather large tracks of carbon in the pots
as mentioned by someone else, we're dealing on a scale of a couple hundred milliVolts inside a passive guitar so arguable-in-tube-amps component composition doesn't even come into play
the reason "classic" era guitars used high voltage capacitors for tone controls is 100% financial: you get deeper discounts ordering more of one part than half as much of two
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Post by newey on Jun 27, 2022 11:06:02 GMT -5
chiclet caps work just fine and are dirt cheap I use the "chiclet" caps as well. They are more commonly called polyethylene film capacitors. The "chiclet" name comes because they look sort of like a green chiclet. |
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Post by thetragichero on Jun 27, 2022 11:21:19 GMT -5
I've thrown all sorts of wacky 'orange drop' and 'bumblebee' caps into guitars but that's mainly because the majority of guitarists 'hear' with their eyes and will pay a premium for such "upgrades" (picked up a bunch of unused sprague "black beauty" caps at the electronics surplus store for pennies and folks gladly paid me about ten bucks apiece on reverb)
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Post by unreg on Jun 30, 2022 23:48:04 GMT -5
David, the helping hands is a huge improvement. I bought a Helping Hands from RadioShack.com (the store is closed, but the website still works, at least is was working around 4 months ago)… it has a large magnifying lens, two alligator clips, a 3AAAs battery powered light, a soldering sponge, and it’s extremely incredibly helpful. Recommend it. [EDIT]Just checked and radioshack.com is still selling Helping Hands. The one with illumination is superb.[/EDIT] They are more commonly called polyethylene film capacitors. The "chiclet" name comes because they look sort of like a green chiclet. My most recent cap purchase from Mouser tried to be a green chiclet purchase, but Mouser did not have any of the green ones. Oh well, it’s just a tone cap and works wonderfully… even though it isn’t green. |
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Post by David Mitchell on Jul 17, 2022 16:14:45 GMT -5
Guitar players assume Orange Drop make a difference in passive guitar circuitry because they are heralded in active circuitry. There's no objective evidence or reasoning for that conclusion, but there's ample confirmation bias. You can certainly use radial caps, but axial cap leads are usually more flexible. I used to get parts cheap from BYOC, but their stock is running low. chiclet caps work just fine and are dirt cheap resistor-wise the composition doesn't particularly matter as you have at least two rather large tracks of carbon in the pots as mentioned by someone else, we're dealing on a scale of a couple hundred milliVolts inside a passive guitar so arguable-in-tube-amps component composition doesn't even come into play the reason "classic" era guitars used high voltage capacitors for tone controls is 100% financial: you get deeper discounts ordering more of one part than half as much of two I use the "chiclet" caps as well. They are more commonly called polyethylene film capacitors. The "chiclet" name comes because they look sort of like a green chiclet. I'm not sure if I'm looking in the wrong place or for the wrong thing, but other than Orange Drops, about the only film caps I can find that look like what I think you guys are talking about are those from Vishay / BC Components, such as BFC237540331. Most film caps in the range I'm looking for appear to be in a plastic casing, such as WIMA FKP2F003301D00JSSD. Those from Vishay/BC are cheaper than Cornell Dubilier's, but not that cheap. If the composition really doesn't matter, there are a lot of cheaper ceramic and multi-layer ceramic caps. There's also a whole range of Xicon axial styrene film caps that run around 30 cents apiece if the axial format is better and that composition is suitable. I know I've spent way too much time on this (my fault!), but I would like to make an informed choice. David, the helping hands is a huge improvement. I bought a Helping Hands from RadioShack.com (the store is closed, but the website still works, at least is was working around 4 months ago)… it has a large magnifying lens, two alligator clips, a 3AAAs battery powered light, a soldering sponge, and it’s extremely incredibly helpful. Recommend it. [EDIT]Just checked and radioshack.com is still selling Helping Hands. The one with illumination is superb.[/EDIT] Thanks, unreg! I did decide to splurge on a QuadHands workbench. I could use the illumination, but there's an old light fixture over the workbench — I just need to replace its wire as well! |
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Post by gckelloch on Jul 17, 2022 17:12:43 GMT -5
Passive guitar pickup output can exceed 1V in some cases, but won't likely reach 2V. The 50V Xicon are more than suitable, and the smaller size means there's more space in the cavity for complex wiring schemes. Go for those if you are concerned about ceramics for some reason. Ceramics are more brittle and may be a bit more off-spec, but there is really no reason not to use them if they are cheaper.
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Post by unreg on Jul 17, 2022 17:29:54 GMT -5
David, the helping hands is a huge improvement. I bought a Helping Hands from RadioShack.com (the store is closed, but the website still works, at least is was working around 4 months ago)… it has a large magnifying lens, two alligator clips, a 3AAAs battery powered light, a soldering sponge, and it’s extremely incredibly helpful. Recommend it. [EDIT]Just checked and radioshack.com is still selling Helping Hands. The one with illumination is superb.[/EDIT] Thanks, unreg! I did decide to splurge on a QuadHands workbench. I could use the illumination, but there's an old light fixture over the workbench — I just need to replace its wire as well! You’re welcome sir. 🙂 I just recommended the illumination of helping hands bc its led shines down from beneath the magnifying glass… and so that illumination can’t possibly be blocked by items such as my head. In other words, it makes lighting the area to be soldered super simple. |
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Post by MattB on Jul 17, 2022 18:01:52 GMT -5
I buy most of my caps on Aliexpress. It works out a lot cheaper if you're buying more than a few. This kit has a good range of values: You can also find resistor kits for much cheaper than Ebay and Amazon prices.
If you're still looking for multicore wire, I have used this before to convert a few pickups to four core wiring: It doesn't have the foil layer and the colours aren't quite right but for the price I don't care about that.
For single core wire I'm a big fan of this stuff: It has a higher number of thinner strands than some wire. That makes it more flexible and less prone to breakage.
Buying on Aliexpress can be bit bit of a gamble if you don't know exactly what you're looking for, but these are all things I've bought myself, and sellers I've used a few times without problems. In general with cap or resistor kits you might find a few values are different, and there might be a few oddball sizes.
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Post by frets on Jul 17, 2022 18:57:09 GMT -5
Matt,
Your right, one can pick up caps and resistors at prices that can’t be bested. Although I have to use predominately higher end components, I do use their polypropylene small caps for treble bleeds and Varitones. I buy all my smd components from either Ali or Tayda.
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Post by David Mitchell on Sept 16, 2022 20:30:22 GMT -5
Two months later....I'm starting to resurface from a big work project. gckelloch, unreg, MattB, and frets, thanks for your input! Regarding wire, the pickup maker I bought my second pickup from (first one was acquired used) threw in some wire scraps for free, for the short runs in the main control cavity; and I bought some shielded two-conductor wire off Amazon for the run to the upper cavity (pickup selector). I still need to get resistors, caps, and pots; I'll probably order from Mouser, as I don't need that many, and I also try to buy from closer to home when feasible — just my preference. Thanks again, guys! Next up is probably a thread trying to figure out what some of the component values should be and how everything should be hooked up....
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 17, 2022 6:26:51 GMT -5
If you work in IT this is a Godsend, if not, go to Goodwill, or the equivalent in your area, and buy the old wired mice and VGA cables. The big fat ones with the blue ends. All the wire I have ever needed over the past 20 years came from this sources. Sure, it's tedious taking the cables apart...but not as tedious as sourcing this stuff in small quantities...and you'll wind up with every color combination you ever wanted in small gauge wires...
The mice cables are nice in that they are four wires wrapped in a shield. Perfect for those eBay pickups where someone cut off the wires too short to fit where you want to put it... The colors used to match DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan for a while...
And the sentiments expressed here about paying for "mojo" are spot on. TragicHero's story of paying pennies for it and making a 1000% return are true everywhere. If Clapton said he always rubbed his guitar in tuna fish, the grocery store shelves would be empty tomorrow. Remember, Leo bought telephone company surplus for his early stuff. Once you put the pickguard on no one knows or cares what's in there.
Both Mouser and Digi-Key will have everything you need in small quantities...and most of it is on a handful of pages in their catalogs... The best use I found for the majority of the catalog is to help flatten veneers...
Don't obsess.
HTC1
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Post by newey on Sept 17, 2022 7:46:12 GMT -5
go to Goodwill, or the equivalent in your area, and buy the old wired mice and VGA cables. I, too, repurpose old cables. But be sure to quickly check old wire for continuity before you use it. If it looks intact, it probably is, but someone may have yanked on it at some point. Checking it with your meter takes 2 seconds, worth doing just in case. |
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Post by frets on Sept 18, 2022 13:50:32 GMT -5
David,
Let me know in a PM regarding what you need and I will help you find it. I buy parts all the time😸.
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Post by David Mitchell on Oct 7, 2022 13:46:01 GMT -5
If you work in IT this is a Godsend, if not, go to Goodwill, or the equivalent in your area, and buy the old wired mice and VGA cables. The big fat ones with the blue ends. All the wire I have ever needed over the past 20 years came from this sources. Sure, it's tedious taking the cables apart...but not as tedious as sourcing this stuff in small quantities...and you'll wind up with every color combination you ever wanted in small gauge wires... The mice cables are nice in that they are four wires wrapped in a shield. Perfect for those eBay pickups where someone cut off the wires too short to fit where you want to put it... The colors used to match DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan for a while... And the sentiments expressed here about paying for "mojo" are spot on. TragicHero's story of paying pennies for it and making a 1000% return are true everywhere. If Clapton said he always rubbed his guitar in tuna fish, the grocery store shelves would be empty tomorrow. Remember, Leo bought telephone company surplus for his early stuff. Once you put the pickguard on no one knows or cares what's in there. Both Mouser and Digi-Key will have everything you need in small quantities...and most of it is on a handful of pages in their catalogs... The best use I found for the majority of the catalog is to help flatten veneers... Don't obsess. HTC1 , uh, guess it's too late on don't obsess. But I hope to learn. I used to work on computers, and until last summer I had graveyard of old parts — including a box full of dead power supplies and their wire harnesses. But I took it all to Goodwill shortly before I decided I wanted to rewire my guitar. Man, what timing. I, too, repurpose old cables. But be sure to quickly check old wire for continuity before you use it. If it looks intact, it probably is, but someone may have yanked on it at some point. Checking it with your meter takes 2 seconds, worth doing just in case. Good tip, thanks, newey. Before I do much more with my guitar, I need to rehab my father's old multimeter. It just needs a new 9V battery clip — I hope. I have one on the way! David, Let me know in a PM regarding what you need and I will help you find it. I buy parts all the time😸. , that is so kind of you — thank you! A couple of days ago I finally ordered most of the basic stuff I need, but since you've offered, I may contact you for help getting more specialized stuff — especially if I decide to use some of your circuit ideas! |
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 8, 2022 6:17:58 GMT -5
You may already do this...and it's not really related to sourcing components...but one thing that always made the job easier was making a tracing of my control cavity on a piece of heavy cardboard with all holes existing and proposed included. Then I just solder it up mounted to the cardboard....like this. This way you know it all fits...and the "harness" just drops in. Another thing I discovered here is the "star grounding" method. For me, I take a copper washer and solder all my ground to that, then run one wire out to the jack sleeve. Just screw the washer somewhere into the side of the cavity and you're done. Beats the living Hell out of soldering grounds to the pots, IMHO. Good luck. HTC1
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Post by David Mitchell on Nov 5, 2022 20:14:57 GMT -5
You may already do this...and it's not really related to sourcing components...but one thing that always made the job easier was making a tracing of my control cavity on a piece of heavy cardboard with all holes existing and proposed included. Then I just solder it up mounted to the cardboard....like this. This way you know it all fits...and the "harness" just drops in. Thanks for the tip, cynical1! I had not done this before, but since you suggested it, I made a pencil smudge tracing of the control cavity on paper, cut that out, and transferred it to cardboard. (Is there an easier way to do it?) I'm sure it will help with getting everything lined up correctly. I'm working on my wiring diagram now, and planning to use the star ground method, but it's a pretty simple circuit (only one "extra" switch) and I already have ten connections to the grounding point. I'm wondering how you fit all those connections on one washer — or perhaps more importantly, how hard it is to remove specific wires without the whole thing coming apart, as I'm planning to add and swap a few things after this version. Thanks! |
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Post by cynical1 on Nov 6, 2022 2:55:28 GMT -5
I'm wondering how you fit all those connections on one washer — or perhaps more importantly, how hard it is to remove specific wires without the whole thing coming apart, as I'm planning to add and swap a few things after this version. Thanks! I don't know what Hoyle says about it, but this is how I do it. When soldering everything up while mounted to my cardboard template I leave all my ground wires long. This allows me more flexibility on where I can screw it to in the cavity later. (I use green wire exclusively for grounds...that way, if I have blonde moment I can still catch the stay connection before soldering it all together) I use an old binder clip to hold them until all the grounds, including the from the jack, are in place. I'll cut them to length once everything is together and I know where I'm going to place the copper washer. Then I just twist them together, squeeze them with a pair of pliers to flatten them out and solder to the copper washer. If I remove a component later with a ground previously soldered to the copper washer I don't de-solder anything, I just cut it. I'll just solder the new ground connection somewhere else on the washer. HTC1 |
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Post by unreg on Nov 6, 2022 14:56:24 GMT -5
Another thing I discovered here is the "star grounding" method. For me, I take a copper washer and solder all my ground to that, then run one wire out to the jack sleeve. , “star grounding” is brilliant!  For me, maybe I’ve told you this before?, I had washer buying problems… DON’T buy a Fender washer. So, newey suggested that Star grounding can be accomplished with any conductive piece; he said he used a paperclip. And, I ended up using a paper clip! It was super easy; just make it long enough; and, like cynical1, I haven’t ever desoldered a wire from my paperclip; I guess I could snip the unused ground wire off. The paperclip star ground creation is easy, just wrap a small piece of each wire end around the clip and cover each wrap with some solder; I made a little tiny loop on one end and screwed that loop into a painted cavity wall; that way the walls become grounded too. Once again, if using a paperclip, make sure it is long enough; adding new grounds to a full paperclip would be impossible? |
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Post by David Mitchell on Dec 4, 2022 20:39:49 GMT -5
When soldering everything up while mounted to my cardboard template I leave all my ground wires long. This allows me more flexibility on where I can screw it to in the cavity later. (I use green wire exclusively for grounds...that way, if I have blonde moment I can still catch the stay connection before soldering it all together) I use an old binder clip to hold them until all the grounds, including the from the jack, are in place. I'll cut them to length once everything is together and I know where I'm going to place the copper washer. Then I just twist them together, squeeze them with a pair of pliers to flatten them out and solder to the copper washer. If I remove a component later with a ground previously soldered to the copper washer I don't de-solder anything, I just cut it. I'll just solder the new ground connection somewhere else on the washer. Cool ideas. Thanks, cynical1! David Mitchell, “star grounding” is brilliant! For me, maybe I’ve told you this before?, I had washer buying problems… DON’T buy a Fender washer. So, newey suggested that Star grounding can be accomplished with any conductive piece; he said he used a paperclip. And, I ended up using a paper clip! It was super easy; just make it long enough; and, like cynical1, I haven’t ever desoldered a wire from my paperclip; I guess I could snip the unused ground wire off. The paperclip star ground creation is easy, just wrap a small piece of each wire end around the clip and cover each wrap with some solder; I made a little tiny loop on one end and screwed that loop into a painted cavity wall; that way the walls become grounded too. Once again, if using a paperclip, make sure it is long enough; adding new grounds to a full paperclip would be impossible? , I had read somewhere around here about your paperclip ground, but it makes a bit more sense to me now. I might try that (I don't think I have any suitable washers on hand anyway). Thanks! |
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For me, maybe I’ve told you this before?, I had washer buying problems… DON’T buy a Fender washer. So,