Out of Phase or Half Out of Phase?

[shaker]

Out of Phase or Half Out of Phase?

Here is scenario #1.

2 double coil pickups in a standard Gibson-style arrangement
One DPDT that reverses the phase of, say, the bridge pickup.
3-way Toggle pickup switch in (both) middle position
RESULT = One Pickup (with 2 coils) is Out of Phase with the other pickup (also with 2 coils).

Here is scenario #2.

2 double coil pickups in a standard Gibson-style arrangement
One DPDT that reverses the phase of, say, the outer coil of bridge pickup.
3-way Toggle pickup switch in (both) middle position
RESULT = One Coil is out of phase with the other 3 coils (ie 50% less coils than in scenario #1)…Is that then Half Out of Phase?

Just wondering…..

Shaker

[Deleted]

I've written this out a few times to find the PURE Feeling/Meaning of Phase in my own head (including sci-fi)

to be out of phase (by any degree) you would need to have some thing the same to compare it with
in theory this is the signel that is given off





So.. I guess both are out of Phase
it may come down to, can my hearing tell that one Coil of the Humbucker has been Phased. [NORTH x SOUTH vs NORTH vs south(Phased)]
by typically the FIRST one is the standard for Out of Phase [The whole pickup, ie the Humbucker as the Neck is a Humbucker]

[ashcatlt]

The short answer is no. When people say Half Out of Phase, they generally mean some arrangement with a capacitor so that only the higher frequencies from the one pickup get flipped and the low end stays in phase. Flipping one coil of an HB causes that pickup’s output to cancel almost completely, so that you’ll end up hearing basically just the other pickup. It probably won’t have much if any of the OoP character, and would essentially be redundant to the pickup selector.

[reTrEaD]

Mar 22, 2022 7:38:33 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

When people say Half Out of Phase, they generally mean some arrangement with a capacitor so that only the higher frequencies from the one pickup get flipped and the low end stays in phase.

That's a close enough explanation of Parallel Half out of Phase (PHooP). The higher frequencies tend to cancel and there is strong comb filtering depending on the phase relationship of the harmonics at the two sensing locations. The lower frequencies from one coil have a lot of capacitive reactance in series with them, so they have little effect on the low frequencies from the coil without the capacitor.

Out of phase higher frequencies, lower frequencies from just one coil.

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But something quite different happens with Series half out of Phase (SHooP). One of the two coils in series is shunted by a capacitor. So the lower frequencies cancel and the higher frequencies tend to sound much like they would if only the non-bypassed coil was in the circuit.

Out of phase lower frequencies, higher frequencies from just one coil.

[newey]

We should also note that the term "half out of phase" is just our colloquial, shorthand term for this arrangement, not something with any formal meaning in any electrical sense. If two signals are fully out of phase, like on an oscilliscope, we woud say they are 180° out of phase, so "half out of phase" would technically be 90°, but that's not what we mean by the term, we're just talking a partial cancellation of some frequencies.

[shaker]

Hi All

Thanks for the all responses.  Very helpful and enlightening.

All done here.

Shaker

[Deleted]

a lot of thinking of PHASE seems to be based around a Sine wave

i am not sure what a Out of Phased Sine wave will look like.

i am Keen to see Pick a Standard String. just one Note.
and then Phase it and play again.

also like to see it from another position Pickup (Neck/Bridge)
Think do need to SHOW the Wave