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Post by ijustwannastrat on Jan 29, 2010 23:49:44 GMT -5
I was wondering about those piezo saddle systems, like the GraphTech Ghost systems. I know that I want the piezo built into the saddle on my stratocopy. At least I think I do.
Would a piezo sound good through a normal guitar amp?
The guitar in question has been used mostly for finger picking, "calm" songs. Not alot of gain. It would be a bonus if you could put the piezo through some grit, but that's not a requirement.
Finally, I've lurked, and I can't seem to find any other drop in saddles with the piezo installed. Anybody know any competition to Graphtech? I'd hate to not be able to shop around.
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Post by newey on Jan 30, 2010 0:21:49 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Jan 30, 2010 3:48:08 GMT -5
stratty, As usual, newey beats me to it. RMC is considered as good as The Ghost System, some folks like it better. I've been on both sides of the fence with Richard, agreeing and disagreeing on various engineering aspects, but the bottom line is, regardless of cost, he's still in business, and that's because he makes a good product, and he backs it up, 100%. The same can be said for Grahptech's stuff. In fact, I used their system on my previous Strat, now gone to other hands than mine. As it happens, I decided just today that my internalized external GK-2A is about to get the heave-ho, along with the whole guitar (but how many players want just exactly that combination? ), and another Ghost System is on the short shopping list. Good thing I'm about a 2 hour drive from their HQ/factory in Delta, BC. ;D This will be installed in/on my upcoming final custom build. (Final for this lifetime, perhaps on the next go-round I'll do a few more, before I check out again.) I knew the former engineer there, he's gone now, and I still know the company Pres, Dave Dunwoodie. Nice guy, and also stands behind his products. (They also make the Tusq saddles and nuts.) You can also find systems from L.R. Baggs (used to be on the Brian Moore guitars) and Fishman (various brands, from time to time). Me personally, my money is still on the Ghost. It sounds reeeaall nice, but you need to use their in-guitar amp (a pre-amp/buffer setup), which sums all six (6) signals into one, and then gives that result the "acoustic" tweak. Skip the "mid/dark" switch, you can do as well with your amp/pedals, and save the $25 USD. Wiring options give you the ability to fuse both that signal and your normal mag pickups into one output lead, keep them separate with a stereo jack, or feed the two signals to separate jacks. If you don't opt for the hex output (for Roland gear, that's the 13-pin stuff I've been yammering about), then you need an on-board battery, and the means to switch the power on/off. If you do use the Roland gear, then you'll be happy with the cable's provided power, no battery necessary. There are Yahoo and Google groups for these systems individually, and for "midi guitars" in general. Lurk and ask questions, you'll get all the help you can ever possibly use! HTH sumgai
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Post by newey on Jan 30, 2010 8:43:01 GMT -5
Sumgai said: Geez, SG, that's a bit dark. I figure you've got time to wear out a few more Strats yet. Or, perhaps you saw a "Ghost"? "Do not go gentle into that good night . . ." OK, so if it's reincarnation, maybe you come back as a 13-pin Roland-equipped Strat . . . ;D EDIT: And Wannastrat, before I derail this thread any further, let's try to answer some questions: As SG noted, your options are either to sum the mag and piezo signals (after the piezo preamp/buffer) into a single output, to run a stereo signal using a TRS jack, or separate outputs. If you do the first option, you're pretty much stuck with running it into your guitar amp. It will sound "good". If you meant, "will it sound better if run through an acoustic amp or through a PA", it might. But you're pretty much stuck with one amp if there's only the one output. Using a TRS jack or separate jacks gives you more options. You can run it to two separate amps, or to two channels of a stereo amp. You could apply a pedal or two to the piezo signal only for some grit. The TRS jack has the advantages of only requiring one cable out of your guitar, and it doesn't require drilling and mounting for an added output jack (tough to do on a Strat, given the "boat" output jack arrangement thereon.) The disadvantages are that you have to use a TRS cable out of the guitar, and that you'll need a separate "black box" on the floor to split the signal if you want to use 2 amps, or to run separate effects for the mag and piezo signals. Separate output jacks have the advantage of allowing the use of regular guitar cables, and allowing you to go directly to 2 amps. A simple ABY switcher can be used to "reunite" the 2 signals to feed into one amp if desired.
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 30, 2010 10:54:18 GMT -5
sg - I'm afraid you've fallen prey to the popular misconception re: the reincarnation myth. Don't feel bad, most Hindu/Buddhist folks get it wrong, too. Anyway, I just happen to know a dude with a GI-10 and no working pickup with which to control it. That strat of yours is kinda ugly, but I bet it would get the job done . Using a TRS jack for stereo output means you can't use it to switch the battery when unplugged, but it doesn't exactly require a "black box". You could just as easily use a TRS > 2 x TS cable (often called an insert cable). Of course, the "black box" would be easy to build.
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Jan 30, 2010 11:49:08 GMT -5
Oh, I should have clearified. I ment to gut my mag pups out of the guitar, and just leave pup covers in for "aesthetics". I'm still just thinking about it, but what I want to use the stratocopy for is acoustic music.
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Post by newey on Jan 30, 2010 13:05:05 GMT -5
WS-
Why? Dismembering your Strat isn't going to make the piezo sound more "acoustic".
The extent to which a solid-bodied guitar with a piezo actually sounds like an acoustic guitar is an argument on which you'll find many opinions. With appropriate EQ'ing it can certainly get close.
But if that's all you want, why not trade your (intact) Strat for an acoustic/electric with a piezo already installed? Or, for an acoustic and a microphone?
The whole point of putting the piezo saddles in a Strat is to be able to use one guitar for both electric sounds and for a more-or-less serviceable acoustic sound. Otherwise, why bother?
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Post by sumgai on Jan 30, 2010 13:31:04 GMT -5
ash, The way to solve the battery dilemma while still getting two separate signals out with one jack is to use a ¼" TRRS (Tip Ring Ring Sleeve), and of course, a simple 3 conductor cable (TRS). This will do the same thing we're used to with a TRS jack and a standard mono cable, but with an extra conductor. (Sorry, no websites seem to be exhibiting any images of such.... or at least, Google is refusing to find and display them.) ~!~!~!~!~ stratty, If you're out to use a "standard" strat in an unusual way, and perhaps to scare some of the 'traditionalists', that's fine. But if all you really want is that special "feel" of a Fender neck, but the sound of an acoustic, then look no further than a Stratocoustic. (Or a Telecoustic, and if you can handle a used/discontinued rig, there's even a Jazzmaster acoustic.) Fender's own website: www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0967300006Google results: www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&num=20&newwindow=1&q=fender+stratacousticA decent video sample: HTH sumgai p.s. All, After my heart attack in 2001, every moment since then is just so much borrowed time, and I'm realist enough to recognize that. Sorta gives me carte blanche to carpe diem, if you know what I mean. -30-
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Post by JohnH on Jan 30, 2010 14:33:37 GMT -5
Hi guys - thoughts from me: As you may know, I have experimented with home-brewed versions of adding a piezo to a Strat, mixing pickups, and we also had treguires thread where we mixed mag and piezo on an acoustic guitar. Apart from having the convenience of only needing one guitar, theres a huge benefit in being able to mix the piezo sound with a versatile magnetic pickup arrangement, because you can set your piezo tone on the bright, zingy side and add body or mids by mixing with the mag. But some of the biggest sounds come from keeping the signals separate to two different amps. Being so different, it really is like playing two guitars at once and can sound huge. I think the ideal way to set this up electrically, both for use and also for simple-ish construction is to have two jacks. One jack is a TRS and receives the blended output which can be anything from full piezo to full mag, but through an active blender so it is a low impedance output and can go to an amp or line input. A mono cable is used to activate power in the usual way with the TRS jack. The second jack is pure passive output from the mag system. This gives a different mag tone, and also works if your battery goes down. Battery power is not wasted if you plug only into this jack. The two sockets together give the opportunity to feed two amps. The last point I have relates to amp types. The standard line level (or lower) outputs from electro acoustics work OK into an electric guitar amp. But the main limiting factor is the speakers which cannot usually send out frequencies about about 5kHz, whereas the stringy strumming and picking transients from an acoustic guitar go up above 10kHz. And for your overdriven electric, you don't want those frequencies because they sound bad (though they can be nice from a cleanly amped electric). I found that I could add those frequencies to my electric amp by adding piezo tweeters to it, and it sounds fine if kept clean. A switch cuts them out if I go driven. Piezo tweeters need no crossover, and work best with a resistor in series, so the extra parts can be simply connected in parallel with the main speaker, and it has a negligible effect on impedance so the amp is happy. I built this into a cab, but this could also be a separate small 'piggy back' tweeter cab. cheers John
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Jan 30, 2010 16:32:02 GMT -5
I already have an acoustic guitar. My deal is that it doesn't have a pup, it doesn't have strap buttons, so using it for a show wouldn't work AS IS. With all the feedback issues I've heard from acoustics that are amplified, I just figured that using piezo saddles on the strat through a PA would be a good alternative. I love the sound of my strat unplugged (the 13's it's strung up with sound amazing). My main reason for wanting to remove the mag pup stuff is simply because the cavity is small-ish. If I had a trem cavity (I have a hardtail, but the cavity would be nice) I would not even THINK about removing the mag pups.
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Post by dunkelfalke on Jan 30, 2010 16:59:44 GMT -5
That guy of The Machine (a great Pink Floyd tribute band), Joe Pascarell, uses such a system so he doesn't have to change the guitar while playing acoustic parts. It does sound very good indeed.
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Jan 30, 2010 17:03:34 GMT -5
Pink Floyd tribute? He must be a tone freak. Gilmour has some of the best tones in rock, IMHO.
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 30, 2010 17:24:22 GMT -5
You know, speaking of 13-pin stuff, I'd bet you'd get far more convincing acoustic sounds out of that strat with one of those Roland VG systems.
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Post by dunkelfalke on Jan 30, 2010 19:08:47 GMT -5
Pink Floyd tribute? He must be a tone freak. Gilmour has some of the best tones in rock, IMHO. He is. Joe is spot on when it comes to the tone and the best thing is that he mimics both Gilmour's voice and Waters' howling very well. It is a bit eerie to listen to him singing, it is like there are two distinct persons. Check this one out. Here he sings in Waters' voice and plays "acoustic" guitar with his piezo saddles equipped strat. I really miss the band and really wish that they play in Germany again soon.
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Post by dunkelfalke on Jan 30, 2010 19:13:53 GMT -5
You know, speaking of 13-pin stuff, I'd bet you'd get far more convincing acoustic sounds out of that strat with one of those Roland VG systems. Graphtech Ghost can be used as a MIDI pickup with an additional module.
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Post by gumbo on Jan 31, 2010 2:12:25 GMT -5
...and you can even get a passable acoustic sound out of a Roland-Ready Strat into a Roland GR-30, if you're prepared to fool around a bit with the settings...and the 30's (and 33's) are pretty common on evilBay these days..
...once you make the 13-pin leap, a lot more is possible...however you get there.
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