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Post by ozboomer on Apr 10, 2010 9:04:33 GMT -5
In preparation for a "token" research project on options for acquiring my first Jazzmaster/Jaguar -style guitar, I've just been distracted for an hour or so by another virtual guitar designer (note that it will take a while to load). I have fairly simple tastes, so nothing flash here: ...but you might fall across something inspiring... or at least, you'll get some entertainment value whilst you work out how to justify buying yet another guitar ;D ...
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Apr 10, 2010 10:22:23 GMT -5
Thanks for showing this! I love Jaguars, but money and desire to buy one have never lined up well enough to actually get one.
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Post by newey on Apr 10, 2010 11:39:08 GMT -5
OK, mine is maybe not so simple.
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Post by ozboomer on Apr 11, 2010 2:13:11 GMT -5
Just to add to the "desire factors"... I just spent an entertaining (and illuminating) afternoon up at one of the local music shops... I had a go at playing: - MIA Jazzmaster (A$3800)
- MIJ Jazzmaster (A$1700)
- MIJ Jaguar (A$1700)
- MIA Standard Stratocaster (A$1899)
Coming from playing my Squier Afinity and Bullet Strats, I can certainly say that I can hear/feel the difference in playing all of these guitars... However, blowed if I can tell any difference between MIA/MIJ Jazzmasters... Pfft! ...but I freely admit I'm a total noob with these hi-level guitars Anyway, in short, given that I hope to get 'round to learning some tremolo picking and muting techniques (eventually), I'm pretty sure I like the Jazzmaster more than the Jaguar - primarily 'coz the main volume pot is out of the way (given that I'm not really worrying about volume swells... and if I did, I'd probably use a volume pedal anyway)... and I like the sounds produced by the electronics in the Jazzmaster a bit better. Ohhhh, finally getting to play the Jazzmaster for real has been great... and has substantially increased the intensity of my case of GAS ;D Now, to write another nice letter to my bank manager... or maybe I'll just get moving on my quest for a more affordable, similar-sounding model...
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Post by newey on Apr 11, 2010 9:24:03 GMT -5
MF (and everyone else) has the "Classic Player" Jag on sale for $800 US. guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Classic-Player-Jaguar-Special-Electric-Guitar?sku=518688Or one can have the HH version, which is less "Jag-ish" but which may appeal to the Lee Ranaldo fans out there . . . guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Jaguar-HH-Electric-Guitar?sku=511323I'm assuming these are both from the Ensenada, Mexico factory. We don't get the MIJ ones anymore in the US. When you talk of $3800 (AUS), for a "MIA", I assume that's the actual USA ones- here the Mexican ones are advertised as "Made in America" (Mexico being, after all, a part of North America), while the actual Made in California ones are "USA". And you're right, there isn't a hair of difference between the 2, other than the premium price. Some folks are willing to pay the difference just to have a "Made in USA" one- apparently enough folks that Fender still maintains the distinction. Of course, I understand that you're probably paying more downunder, even correcting for the currency exchange, since there's probably an import duty of some sort.
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Post by newey on Apr 11, 2010 12:28:10 GMT -5
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Post by gumbo on Apr 12, 2010 5:07:40 GMT -5
Actually, I'm sure we're paying more in Oz because there are too many people in the middle who are ALL getting their cut along the way....plus the fact that this has been going on for SOOO many decades that the general populace here is so used to it, no-one queries it...they just pay up.... .....Oz guitar shops ...yeah, right.... ....that's why HeeBayGeeBay's still in business in this country ..ok, tiring day at the office today, ask me again tomorrow, folks...
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Post by ozboomer on Apr 12, 2010 7:53:48 GMT -5
Again alluding to this phantom Jaguar/Jazzmaster/copy purchase project, I'm currently working on a list of manufacturers and local (Australia) and non-local (elsewhere that export to Oz) on-line/"bricks'n'mortar" guitar shops, with a view to building a list like we have on the links page, which I hope will be of particular interest to the budget-conscious Nutz. I might be making (another) rod for my own back in terms of maintenance... but as the Jag/Jazz -style guitars seem to be getting trendy popular (again), I think it will probably be useful/of interest... for a while, anyway...
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Post by ozboomer on Apr 16, 2010 7:13:38 GMT -5
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Post by dunkelfalke on Apr 17, 2010 16:24:14 GMT -5
To be honest, this was a topic I've given a lot of thought some years ago. I've decided to buy a sunburst Squire Jagmaster, replace the vibrato with a black Wilkinson VSVG with Graphtech saddles, add a Graphtech nut, black locking tuners, a Warmoth vintage tinted maple/maple neck, and two black GFS Pro Tube humbuckers.
But then I've tried a Jagmaster out and noticed that the scale length (which was the primary reason since I've got very short fingers) is actually too short for me after playing strat scale necks for a while, so the humbucker is now in my bass, the tuners were lost and the black VSVG with the Graphtech saddles and the Graphtech nut are lying somewhere in a drawer.
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Post by ozboomer on Apr 23, 2010 22:56:09 GMT -5
To further explore some options with the Jazzmaster and such, maybe one of our esteemed Jazzmaster-owning colleagues could do some measurements, please? I'm just checking-out some old maths theory against the 'reality' and would like to know the dimensions illustrated below (to the nearest mm or 1/32"): I'm suggesting the larger distances be measured, so the measurement error is minimized - ever the engineer Many thanks, folks. John
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Post by sumgai on Apr 24, 2010 3:07:30 GMT -5
ozzy, Your dimensions are derived from the incorrect reference point. What counts is the distance between the pickups and the bridge, not the fretnut. I can tell you that: A is 25.5 inches; B is C is located at the 25th fret, which works out to 6.0172 inches from the bridge, or nearly 6 and 3/16th inchs; and D is A/2 Sorry, I can't seem to recall, nor can Google find, the B dimension. Arrrgh! HTH sumgai
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Post by ozboomer on Apr 24, 2010 4:43:50 GMT -5
Your dimensions are derived from the incorrect reference point. What counts is the distance between the pickups and the bridge, not the fretnut. Agreed, as the reference to the bridge is the actual length of the vibrating string... but if someone got the measuring tape out, the 'larger distance' would be less prone to error in the measuring. As you'd be aware, dear sumgai, I'm thinking out loud (again) about the ol' harmonic (anti-node) positions and where the pickups are placed... there's gotta be some reasoning behind the pickup positioning and what goes to make-up the Jazzmaster sound compared to anything else. Further thoughts... For me, the more I play Jazzmasters and Jaguars in the shops (when I can get to the shops OR they actually have any in stock), the more I'm moving to the Jazzmaster and not the Jaguar... but that is, o' course, entirely a personal viewpoint. The research continues in earnest...
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Post by newey on Apr 24, 2010 7:47:33 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 24, 2010 11:09:38 GMT -5
Your "B" and "C" dimensions would be best derived from an actual guitar or print. After 2 hours on-line I gave up on the print. I found a few "template" drawings, but without a plotter or any CAD software to spec it...I gave up.
One thing to keep in mind is that pickup placement was never an exact science in the early days with any of the first electric guitar builders. Many time, the "distinct" sounds a given guitar had was based on the pickup placement according to the theory of "let's put it here". As I recall, placing your poles directly under a node can lead to a thinner tone, versus selecting the previously mentioned anti-node. (IE: Why do Telecasters sound the way they do?)
I agree with SG that the neck pick-up will probably be poled between the 24th and 25th fret. This is an accepted standard, but always subject to revision by individual builders or to acquire a particular tone. This puts your "C" dimension somewhere between 19.125" (485.775 mm) and 19.483" (494.868 mm)
Placement for a bridge pickup, your "B" dimension, is really a red herring, as some designers cram it right off the bridge to enhance the high end, while others back it way off to fill out the tone. Using the same argument floated above, grabbing just south of the node would place it approximately at the 48th to 49th fret, (hypothetically speaking, of course) or somewhere around 23.906" (607.212 mm) to 23.996" (609.498 mm).
My guess is that the actual results may vary, once someone can find the exact measurements according to the Gospel of Leo.
I would be curious to see exactly where the actual "B" & "C" measurements fall in all this, as "A" & "D" are absolutes.
Well, that was fun, wasn't it...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by sumgai on Apr 24, 2010 12:35:24 GMT -5
ozzy (and c1), At one time, I was interested enough in the pickup placement to actually measure the location of the Neck pup. While my testing was a bit "seat of the pants", it worked even better than I might have wished. Here's what I did: 1. Pluck the string while obtaining the 2 nd harmonic, thus locating the theoretical 24th fret. 2. Place a capo on the first fret, and re-do the first test. 3. Note that with the capo in place, the 2 nd harmonic moved to directly over the pickup poles. 4. Profit! ;D Since I was interested only in the Neck's location at that time, I completely missed the opportunity to do the same for the Bridge. But I suppose I could go back and do it all over again, in another day or two. (Right now I'm fixing to head out for a memorial service for my former lead guitarist. That sucks to the max, let me tell ya. ) ~!~!~!~ cynical1, There was more to it than your surmisal. Leo did indeed test by ear, on all of his creations. But he did start with some idea of where a pup should go, if for no other reason than he was copying it from leading guitar makers of the day (most notably Gretsch). As Richard Smith tells it in more than of his several historical works on Fender (both the company and the man), Leo simply strummed the strung guitar, and placed the pups where they sounded best to his ear. This entailed a lot of put-it-down, move the pup, and pick-it-back-up, which took days of work, but in the end, it was Leo's ear that dictated where the pup went, not a formula. Now, as to the whole node/anti-node thing.... ChrisK and I had some words on this topic, way back when. It turned out that we were both saying the same thing, but with different words. In essence, once a string is fretted, the harmonic relationships don't change, but the pickup location for them does. This leads to an examination of which harmonics are stronger over the pickup poles (and which are weaker) for any given fretting position. That's what gives rise to the node/anti-node thing that we players (and I use the term loosely, where I'm involved!) refer to as Mojo, aka tone. As noted above, when I capo'd the Jazzmaster at the 1 st fret, the effective 24 th fret (the 2 nd harmonic)moved towards the bridge by an amount equal to 1/12 th of an octave. When plucking the harmonic, it didn't sound out, it was pretty much dead - just as we expect from a Strat when plucking the open string at the 24 th fret. That sounded good enough for Leo! One more thing..... When Leo split the guitar's body and moved the treble side away from the neck, the cutaway was moved too. This forced the pickup to move away from the 24 th fret area, as there wasn't a whole lot of wood left in that region. Check it out, the next time you're in the vicinity of one of these babies. It looks like the wood still remaining would be strong enough, but Leo didn't think so. (And for the record, I personally believe that looks had something to do with it. Placing the pup at the 24 th fret location appears to me to force the pickup cover into the radius of the body's edge.) ~!~!~!~ And finally, ozzy again, In my 7 th grade shop class, we were taught that measuring a distance with a ruler (or a caliper) was fraught with potential error. Moreover, increasing the distance didn't reduce that potential for error, because the eye could still take an incorrect reading. As the teacher put it: "When building a highway, the error can be an inch and no one will care. When building a house, a 12 foot long wall can be an inch off, and some folks would get upset, but it can be dealt with. When cutting slots for shelving in your 12 inch high cabinet walls, measuring from the edge to 3 inches inwards or from the edge to 9 inches inwards, it doesn't matter - you better be mighty accurate in your reading, or else the slots will be out of position. And you'll get an F for the project." And that's the story of Mr. Bradford's shop class, way back when. HTH sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 24, 2010 17:33:42 GMT -5
SG is right. There was a lot more to early placement of pickups, with Leo and all the other pioneer electric guitar builders. I just didn't have the stamina for a diatribe.
My point was simple. The placement of pickups on an electric guitar began as an empirical exercise, rather than a proof in physics. Body shape and other manufacturing considerations all had an effect.
If your desire is to make an exact copy, then you'll need the real deal to make your measurements. If you want to play around with the possible tones, now you know where the markers are.
That's all.
HTC1
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Post by ozboomer on Apr 24, 2010 22:44:32 GMT -5
Many thanks for your thoughts, folks... As always, I've been thinking about another mod for the ol' Strat, even as I complete the design/layout for my current project.... whilst I'm thinking about going the Jazzmaster route soon, as well! Now that I have a LOT of info about pickup placement, the idea I have is to build my latest Strat mod, as planned... but I'll also arrange a custom-cut pickguard, as a relatively cheap mod, although the changes in sound will probably be pretty minor, I expect -- see the following diagram: This pickguard will have the neck pickup cutout at the 25th fret position (in blue) and the bridge pickup will NOT have the angle on it... although, I still wonder which way the "straightening" should happen; should the top be tilted backwards (in pink) OR should the bottom be swung forward (in green)? I was surprised to learn therein that the Jaguar and Jazzmaster bodies are not identical. If you prefer the Jazzmaster over the Jag, it's probably the difference in scale length you're noticing. Uh-huh... I was already aware of a few of those points, particularly the difference in scale length and that the pickups had a "serrated-edge" surround. I just particularly noticed what I didn't like about the Jaguar a few days ago when I was trying one out... and it was the sound/controls of the pickups and shorter scale cramping me up that didn't appeal to me too much... YMMV. cynical1: I haveta laugh at myself... With all my fiddling around, I didn't even think to get a decent size photo from one of the on-line shops or from the Fender site and just scale-off the dimensions It would probably be good enough to work out the pickup placement(!) ...but I think there's probably still some magical 'sweet spot' for these pickups... and I'd like to get things as close as I can; and ya, I know Strat pups don't sound like Jazzmaster pups... and they don't sound like P90s either... but it's all in the name of experimentation, don'tcha know !? ...and I might be perfectly happy with my 'Jazz-Caster'(!) Anyway, this is why I was asking for a Jazzmaster owner to do some measurements for us, so we had (as close as possible to) a definitive answer to what the dimensions are. ...I was interested only in the Neck's location at that time, I completely missed the opportunity to do the same for the Bridge. But I suppose I could go back and do it all over again, in another day or two. Ahhh, grand sumgai. Ever the helpful one! Would appreciate your efforts greatly, if you could ...and on another, side note... Sumgai, you mentioned about a memorial service for your lead guitarist. Today in Oz, we have ANZAC Day, which is the memorial day (as well as Armistice Day in November) for Aussies and others in all wars, with an emphasis on WWI and WWII campaigns. A bit of a heart-wrenching day for most of us, seeing the old diggers marching, with their ranks thinning-out. So we'll have some sense of what you're going through, chum...
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Post by sumgai on Apr 25, 2010 2:06:04 GMT -5
ozzy,
I wasn't aware of your "holiday", I guess gumbo's been too busy to tell me about these things.....
She was not the greatest player in the world, but she had nerve enough to ignore that, and just get on with making music that everyone enjoyed. At today's ceremony, about 35 people showed up, but we were "the northern contingent" - she was originally from Oakland CA. I guess the service down there, last week, had more than twice that number of friends and family show up.
Her website is down now (it was on a server in her home), so I can't point to it, but that's a good thing in disguise - it also had a few pictures of me, and wouldn't you know it, I didn't have my bag on that night! ;D
I'll have to scout around a bit, but I think I know where there's a JM for sale at a store in my local area. If not, I'll call a friend of mine that owns a couple of 'em. Give me a coupla days.....
sumgai
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Post by Runewalker on May 10, 2010 10:56:27 GMT -5
On the JazzMaster and Jaguar: Does anyone know why there are so few clones of these guitars? know you can buy the parts via Warmoth etc., but there are very few knockoffs. I have seen one from Stagg guitars, and GFS now has some, however the headstock seems not right on both of those. And they don't have the Jag or JM pup types, which is fine by me. GFS has this weird version with a Tele style bridge, potbar and pups ... which is just so wrong at so many levels..... ugh. store.guitarfetish.com/xvseofgu.htmlI would like some to mod some, probably with P90s but if I got the GFS's I would have to change out the neck then we are getting back into Warmoth costs. RW
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Post by newey on May 10, 2010 12:11:35 GMT -5
RW-
I modified your post to fix the link.
Why are there so few clones of the JM and Jaguar? Probably because the originals didn't sell all that well. If you want to sell a lot of clones, you clone something that's popular.
Don't get me wrong, I love those guitars- and I may have to undertake a build of one someday. But us Jag and JM lovers are apparently in a distinct minority.
The Jag was supposed to be Fender's "Top OF The Line" back in the day, but people kept buying Strats instead.
One story I have heard- and I don't know the truth of this, so it may be unfounded rumor- was that the Jag was done in largely due to its whammy set-up; even though it was supposed to be the premium Fender, guitarists preferred the Strat "tremolo" bridge over the Jag's for tuning stability, and weren't willing to pay the extra price for what they felt was an inferior trem system.
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Post by Runewalker on May 10, 2010 12:54:12 GMT -5
Thanks Newey. I asked the question imprecisely. The marketing failure was not the focus since the Jag/JM were Fender's Edsels, but what I meant was:
is there a legal reason (like Fender having an aggressive intellectual property vigilante program that mobilized cease and desist actions against cloners) that Jags/JM are not routinely cloned?
perhaps it is just the lack of market interest. Most of the rare clones I see seem to offer Strat style trems.
Do we know why the jag/JM trem had less tuning stability than the Strat style, which certain does not set the standard for tuning stability?
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Post by newey on May 10, 2010 15:54:16 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on May 10, 2010 16:05:02 GMT -5
Rune, Hey, welcome back, pardner! ;D OK you two, here's the scoop, but first, a note for ozzy.... ~!~!~!~!~!~ ozboomer, I got over to my buddy's place last weekend (he'd moved quite a ways away from the last time I visitied with him), and found that the Bridge pup is located 1.55 inches from the bridge itself (measured from the high-E string's saddle). This is of course subjective, it was a small fudge more than 1.5 inches, but not 1 and 9/16 th. It might be closer to 1 and 17/32 nd inches, but neither of us had a ruler delineated so finely. Sorry I can't be more precise. But I am looking for another JM, closer to home, and I'm now carrying my micrometer in the truck all the time, just in case. Back to the topic immediately under discussion...... ~!~!~!~ The JM (and the Jag) haven't been cloned in quantity, not because of any legal issues, but because no ultra-popular Guitar Gawds have ever been come forth out of the myriad bands and players. If you look at all (and I mean that literally, as in each and every) guitar player who you can name as an individual guitar "hero" (even if they might not be your personal favorite), you'll find that they play either one or both of the two biggies - you can name those two particular guitar models, I'm quite sure. I might note that the only exception to the above rule would be the ES-335 family, thanks to B.B. King, but other than that, it's Strat or LP all the way down the pike. (Sorry Tele lovers, but that's just the way the string vibrates.) I could go on, but I'll bet I've made my point. Now, as to the tuning stability of any vibrato system. First, you all know my position on this - if it's not stable when you whang on it, then stop whanging so hard! Either that, or else find a new mechanism that will withstand your abuse. (And it is abuse, if you're capable of overcoming the device's inherent capabilities.) Aside from one's musical inclinations, there are no real problems with the JM's Floating Tremolo (with a locking knob, I might add). Where it fails, if one wishes to call it that, is that it has no real depth - with standard strings of today, it can drop down perhaps 3 half-steps, and a bit more if you've monkeyed with the settings. This is not considered adequate range by most players of today, I'm sure you'll agree. (Contrast that with the original strings installed, as per the standards of 1958 [12-56 flatwounds], where you might be able to drop 2 half-steps, or a bit more - if you were lucky.) Not to mention, the ability to raise the pitch was somewhat limited, when using the bar. In fact, my first guitar ever was a JM, and that's where I learned to push down on the strings behind the bridge to raise the pitch. Only thing is, I could do it selectively, giving me a bit of "steel guitar" effect. Tres cool! ;D But whole hand pitch-whanging on all the strings is pretty normal, be it up or down. And I can get that by setting the Strat's normal vibrato bridge to somewhere up off the body proper. That let's me go in either direction, as the Muse moves me. And the range is at least 5 half-steps, even more on the bottom-E string. That's a great improvement over the standard JM-style vibrato, at least IMHO. My next build is going to be a JM offset body with a Strat-style bridge made by PointTremolo. More on my intentions below.* One more thing, Rune. You should know, in case you haven't investigated very closely, that a P-90 is not wound the same as a JM's pickup. The JM is much flatter from top to bottom, and therefore much wider around the perimeter. Additionally, the P-90 has a magnet underneath the non-magnetic pole pieces, whereas the JM's pole pieces are magnets themselves. All of this contributes to a different sound. When it comes to talking about the JM's pickup versus the P-90, some might say weaker, or sweeter, or warmer, or perhaps "has more chime", but no one says harsh, chunky, hotter, or muddy. Certainly it can be made to sound that way, with after-guitar effects, but by itself, head to head against a P-90...... Of course it's all a matter of personal choice, but I would not counsel anyone to make the mistake of believing that the P-90 and the JM pups are nearly identical...... it just 'tain't so! OK, I see that Beulah is blowing the buzzer, so it's time for me to get off the soapbox. HTH sumgai * As it happens, I've drifted into the Roland world so thoroughly, I'm not going to route for pickups. What I'm strongly considering is installing both a GK-2A and a Ghost setup (comprised of a set of these saddles and this module). The offset body will provide enough room to allow two Strat-style output jacks like I've already made for my current axe. That's right, no "normal" pickups, and no switches. In fact, no controls at all, everything will be handled from the floor with a Behringer FCB-1010. But don't no one hold their breath for this to happen anytime soon. I'm still in the planning stages, and as usual, life keeps getting in my way!
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Post by newey on May 10, 2010 22:17:35 GMT -5
Not exactly exact clones of either a JM or Jag, but there are offset-bodied guitars in that genre out there- equipped with P90s to boot! These are cheaper Asian ones, certainly not Fender quality, but might serve as a cheap basis for mods: Jay Turser makes the "Surfmaster" with three P90s: Available here. There's also this, from SX guitars (available through Rondo Music) More like a shredder JM! They also have a 3 pup version. And, we've talked lately about the Ibanez Jet King:
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Post by ozboomer on May 11, 2010 22:11:37 GMT -5
Just quickly... Notwithstanding newey's contributions (Surfmaster, the SX's and the Jet King), I'm currently up to ~16 other models from ~8 manufacturers of JM/Jag -style guitars. I'm not making the distinction between Strat/JM -style tremolos... or pure hardtails for that matter (like the Jet King) but I'm trying to keep things to those models with "soap bar" pickups. Like sumgai, life is holding me up somewhat in my research... but as I said earlier in this thread (12Apr10), I intend to post a summary of findings fairly soon; I'm still following some leads in the Europe/Russian direction.... O' course, I'm also working on the latest Strat mod (Man! you'll have diagrams a'plenty to sift through when THAT mod is done ).... ...but maybe I should just bite the bullet and post the list of models, etc that I have already? Decisions, decisions...
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Post by ozboomer on Jun 6, 2010 8:00:16 GMT -5
Well, I've been doing a lot of investigating over the last few weeks, trying to find some more "economical" versions of the Jazzmaster. I found a couple of useful references that gave me some good pointers: These references, together with my own knowledge and a detailed use of Google, have helped me build a list of candidate Jazzmaster-style guitars (I'm not really looking at Jaguars, 'coz of the shorter scale length, which I've worked out is a bit difficult for me to play). However, that gave me a list of maybe 100+ guitars. To further reduce the size of the list, I applied a few more "selection criteria" (listed here in no particular order): - The guitar has to use P-90, 'soapbar' or 'real' Jazzmaster-style single coil pickups. I would be able to modify my Strats and their pickup positions, wiring schemes, etc in such a way that I don't really want/need to have another guitar with Strat-style single coil pickups.
...and I'm not interested in humbucking pickups for this guitar, as I don't want to be doing any wiring experiments with this guitar; hence, I won't be fiddling about with coil taps, phase changing, etc - I want to try and get a guitar that has that (almost) unique Jazzmaster/P-90 sound.
This is not to say that I won't fiddle about in the (far) future ...
- The shape of the guitar has to be more-or-less the same as a Jazzmaster, having the offset waist; as I understand it, that offset-waist helps to make the guitar a bit more comfortable to play... and I've always liked the look of the Jazzmaster, being somewhat of a cross bewteen a Strat and a degenerate Les Paul
- A little "pre-selection" info: I'm specifically not going to go down the path of the SX SJM-62 as I "have issues" with the shape (which I won't explain 'coz it may spoil you forever, like it has me, regarding this obvious candidate). Neither will I consider either of the Dillon brands (neither USA nor Canada) 'coz the companies seem to be either confused or at each other's throats and I don't want to get involved in that sort of thing, thank you.
- I'm only interested in new, more-or-less 'contemporary' instruments for this exercise (unless I fall over a magic used instrument someplace that is cheap-as) -- I expect any vintage-style guitar is going to be much too expensive.
- It's pretty-much a requirement that the guitar has a tremolo of some sort fitted. If I'm going to try to do something with Surf music using this guitar, it just has! to have a tremolo. (...but see the questions below)
- If it's possible, I'd like to have the alternate "rhythm circuit" available. It's not likely to be a "make-or-break" option but coming from a long history of using presets on keyboards and synths, it would just be nice to have that extra setting available.
- My current crop of guitars comprises Squiers or similar "economy" guitar models and I'd like to get a Jazzmaster-style guitar of the same "class"; I'm not a professional player and don't have the "ear" (or the $$$) to justify anything better at the moment ("better" meaning getting to the A$1500 price point, which is significantly beyond my current A$500 level). When I can appreciate them properly, I'll probably think about looking for a "real" Strat and a "real" Jazzmaster, though..
Therefore, with shipping from overseas into Oz, I guess I'm looking at a budget of about A$300-A$400 for the actual guitar (compared to A$1500, which is what a Fender Japanese-made Jazzmaster can cost locally); o'course, I expect that I'll blow that out to A$500+, given the bite of GAS that will have developed by the time I've saved-up most of the required $$$
So, by applying these criteria, I've cut the list back to a final 10: Now, as I have precious little info on availability, prices, etc, I expect that even this "short list" might end up being depleted and I'll have to compromise again and re-visit the "not-so-short list"... but I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it. Some questions to start us off: - What is a "toaster" -style pickup (see the Argus above)? ...and what about a "Filtertron" -style pickup? I've seen these mentioned occasionally but I'm not familiar with them... and how might these pickups improve/degrade the sound of the guitar?
- How big a deal to the sound is using a Jazzmaster-style tremolo? I have some understanding that there are tuning stability issues with any/all tremolos (and the Jazzmaster tremolo has a locking capability) but how do the various types of tremolo (and bridge, for that matter) affect the sound? Isn't it more about the saddles and the nut? (...as well as many other things, rather than the mechanism used to stretch/relieve the strings)
- If I go back into the "not-so-short list" and I start looking at guitars without a tremolo, say, would it be hard (for a tech) to fit a tremolo unit? Would that start putting the $$$ back up into the "real (Japanese) Jazzmaster" price bracket?
Still, I'd be very interested to learn if anyone has any opinions or experiences with any of these guitars or their manufacturers... where I might be able to buy them on-line (or at a shop in Australia) or if there are are any "gotcha!"s I should be aware of. I have a number of projects on the go whilst working on this, so there's no real rush... but I'd appreciate any thoughts... Thanks a heap, everyone.. John [Edit 12-Jun-2010: Updated reference list of offset waist guitars at OSG]
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Post by newey on Jun 6, 2010 10:58:18 GMT -5
Most of those you cited are not available in the US, AFAIK. The Turser Surfmaster can be had here, at Musicland Cemtral, for $250 USD, plus shipping. They do ship internationally. www.musiclandcentral.com/newjaytusuma.htmlAs far as Filtertron pickups, look at any old Gretsch and you'll see a pair of Filtertrons. The new ones use TV Jones pickups, which are copies of the old Filtertrons.They look like this: The "toaster" style pickups, so called because of the toaster-like slots, were used on Rickenbackers, and on a lot of vintage Japanese guitars from the 1960's, like Kawai, Teisco, etc. Describing the sound of these is pretty subjective. Filtertrons are 2-coil pickups and are hum-cancelling; they sound a bit "mellower" than Gibson HBs, more of a Jazz sound.
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Post by gumbo on Jun 8, 2010 8:22:12 GMT -5
Well, I probably WAS a bit busy to tell you, SG..... ..but then, think about how long it took me to get around to actually reading this thread, and you'll have an idea of HOW busy....
.....short answer? .....Ozdraya probably holds the World Record for the number of public holidays per year - only a few of them (like ANZAC Day) should really happen... a lot of the others seem to be distantly connected to race horses or the Royal Family (spot the difference)..
...now what were these funny-looking guitars you were all talking about? JustMisters?
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Post by ozboomer on Jun 12, 2010 5:14:49 GMT -5
I have made a couple of discoveries regarding the $$$ for the guitars on my 'short list'... - Agile Argus: US$399 @ Rondo
- Alden Guitars: Can't find anyone stocking them
- Jay Turser SurfMaster:US$250 @ Music Land Central (thx newey)
- Hodson Jazzcat (or Deluxe): ~GBP315 = US$460 (used)
- J&D Junglemaster: Not available... but maybe US$169 @ FretCity
- Malden Liquid: US$370 from Malden
- Tuscany Surf: 459 Euros = US$555 from Tuscany
- Xaviere XV-JT40: Not available... but US$209 from Guitar Fetish
Given my criteria, the highlighted items are on the 'shorter' short list... if I can find somewhere to buy 'em...! The research continues...
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