|
|
Post by Runewalker on Dec 13, 2012 0:49:54 GMT -5
Gents and friends, or if you prefer, friends and gents – (I say gents because, really, has there ever been any female on this forum? Probably some material there…) I was laughing to myself the other day how an offhanded smart-posterior comment by me years ago was immortalized by Sumgai in his occasional references to “tone-plastic.” It arose in a thread arguing the always-repeated-never-resolved-in-spite-of-efforts-by-rational- men…assertions about “tone-wood” in solid body electric guitars (as opposed to its actual relevance in acoustic guitars )…. The original thread where the reference was coined: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=repair&thread=2008&page=1#18851This link has a recent reference to the quote in Sumgai's hand. guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=pup&thread=6578&page=1Ok, so it is all fine and well to be entertained by yourself, but this notion deserves more than sarcasm and guffaws. It deserves devotion. I decided this had to taken out of the realm of virtual sarcasm, and into the realm of actual idiocy. As a holiday treat to myself I anted up for a total commitment. If you are going to devote yourself to the ineffable tonal exigencies of tone-plastic you must not rely only upon the mere pickguard. Judas Priest! Let’s see some commitment. There is a world of plexi-options in all of that chassis mass: Voila! – the complete tone-plastic music master:  At $109 USD for genuine Made in China (MIC) CNC craftsmanship, who was I to resist? It is winging its way from Mississippi to Texas and is in Ft. Worth as we speak, soon to be in Son-o’s and Rune’s greasy-with-BBQ hands (real Texas BBQ, that is…. that means dry rubbed beef to you wet, pulled-pork heads).  Can’t wait to just savor the “resonance”, to occilate in concord with the delicious resin tonal bloom, the rich organic frothiness of acrylic. Yum and Ahhhhhhh. True Tone-Plastic lives.RW |
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 13, 2012 2:56:27 GMT -5
OK, I'm running a book here.... how high will RW's Karma rise? I know I'm jacking him up to 26.
Rune, all I can say is, you sure can lay on the Texas-sized evangalism for an oft-misunderstood theology, errr... make that a Texas-sized Nutzness! ;D ;D
sumgai
|
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Dec 13, 2012 3:27:06 GMT -5
Was going to post this a while ago. Guess now is as good a time as any.
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 13, 2012 6:22:01 GMT -5
Rune- Wasn't re-starting the Tone-Plastic debate enough for one day, you have to throw that up as well? ;D The 3D printed guitars are interesting. Consumer-level versions of 3D printers are supposedly only a few years off, so soon we can all make our own tone-plastic bodies. The NYT had an article a while back about a guy who makes working firearms from a 3D printer. Coming soon to a 13-year-old's bedroom near you . . .  |
|
|
|
Post by asmith on Dec 13, 2012 6:52:40 GMT -5
It's so purdy! Congratulations on a fine acquirement. I was going to buy this earlier in the year but wussed out to save for a bigger purchase. |
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Dec 13, 2012 15:16:37 GMT -5
Where can I get some of that invisible paint to put on my Strat?
J
|
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 13, 2012 16:26:36 GMT -5
Was going to post this a while ago. Guess now is as good a time as any. Yeah...an opportunity to confess bros! Yeah for our fellow antipodeans (anti + pods = backwards feet = 'wrong footed")...that's right, I'm of mixed heritage I iz nooseelarnder too, fush and chups anyone! With a fifth/filth of me moari cuz here (ok, perhaps i'm more celtic NZer from my mother, but the tan is coming along) I can claim Crowded House as me own and all the other great music and innovations out of NZland and do the harka in my fellows 'skips' (on my fathers side) faces! Ok....so all be upstanding for the NZ national Anthem... ... Actually, 3D printing is really coming along and will and is starting to revolutionize things, along with remote CNC custom manufacture from the desktop to services everywhere, the cost are going right down and the potential enormous. Not just in what one might 'make' but that whole chain of manufacture and marketing and all that, and of waste and consumption. As for the tone wood thing...is 'spalt' still in? This highly covered and figured half rotted wood....yes, it's all about the 'tone' it just happens to look that way LOL. When I went to school, they forbid us to use the word 'nice' as it was too general to have any real meaning...similarly the word 'tone'...everything has F*n "tone"! And cheap 'plastic guitars' I'll claim that too as we now are aligned down here as a part of 'Australasia'...go bro's, keep churning them out! |
|
|
|
Post by geo on Dec 13, 2012 17:01:04 GMT -5
This I've got to hear some samples from.
|
|
|
|
Post by long813 on Dec 13, 2012 18:41:32 GMT -5
Very cool! I've seen many acrylic guitars. Dave Ghroll had one, Steve Vai has many.
Is this acrylic as well, or plastic?
A note to the 3D printed guitars, I've heard a lot of those on his YT clips and they all sound like crap to me. I'm a firm believer that you can make a good sounding guitar out of anything, but you need to know what you are doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 13, 2012 18:45:03 GMT -5
A note to the 3D printed guitars, I've heard a lot of those on his YT clips and they all sound like crap to me. I'm a firm believer that you can make a good sounding guitar out of anything, but you need to know what you are doing. In the example in the clip...both the neck and teh area betwen it and the bridge is of conventional 'wood' construction, the plastic is only to form the 'shape'....and so does little to affect the sound compared to these elements and other components. |
|
|
|
Post by long813 on Dec 13, 2012 18:52:53 GMT -5
A note to the 3D printed guitars, I've heard a lot of those on his YT clips and they all sound like crap to me. I'm a firm believer that you can make a good sounding guitar out of anything, but you need to know what you are doing. In the example in the clip...both the neck and teh area betwen it and the bridge is of conventional 'wood' construction, the plastic is only to form the 'shape'....and so does little to affect the sound compared to these elements and other components. Yup. Which, from what I make of it, is a poor construction (my opinion based on the sound). To utilize that 'method' of guitar making I think there needs to be something else or changed to make it 'better'. |
|
|
|
Post by Yew on Dec 13, 2012 20:04:42 GMT -5
In the example in the clip...both the neck and teh area betwen it and the bridge is of conventional 'wood' construction, the plastic is only to form the 'shape'....and so does little to affect the sound compared to these elements and other components. Yup. Which, from what I make of it, is a poor construction (my opinion based on the sound). To utilize that 'method' of guitar making I think there needs to be something else or changed to make it 'better'. It is still early days of 3d printing, never mind 3D printing luthierie. Although ive got to admit, having a modualr guitar, that you can change the shape and pickup configuration of instantly sounds good to me |
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 13, 2012 21:43:20 GMT -5
In the example in the clip...both the neck and teh area betwen it and the bridge is of conventional 'wood' construction, the plastic is only to form the 'shape'....and so does little to affect the sound compared to these elements and other components. Yup. Which, from what I make of it, is a poor construction (my opinion based on the sound). To utilize that 'method' of guitar making I think there needs to be something else or changed to make it 'better'. I sense some confusion there...the 'sound' in the clip may not have been indicative of the guitar as such, but as much the player and the amp and tall that...you may 'think' you hear 'plastic' but really, I doubt that one could given the construction. As I say, in that department it is really the ability ot easily make some extraordinary 'shapes'... |
|
|
|
Post by long813 on Dec 13, 2012 22:01:10 GMT -5
Yup. Which, from what I make of it, is a poor construction (my opinion based on the sound). To utilize that 'method' of guitar making I think there needs to be something else or changed to make it 'better'. I sense some confusion there...the 'sound' in the clip may not have been indicative of the guitar as such, but as much the player and the amp and tall that...you may 'think' you hear 'plastic' but really, I doubt that one could given the construction. As I say, in that department it is really the ability ot easily make some extraordinary 'shapes'... Oh no no, I understand. There isn't any sound for the plastic I get that. There is a block of wood from the neck to the bridge. Remove the plastic and that's what you'll get. What I am saying though, is to get away with this minimalism a skilled builder may be required to get it to sound better. When I think about why I don't like the sound ... It may be due to the resonance (or lack there of). On a guitar made of wood, carbon fiber, acrylic, stone (seen on YT) or even metal, there is a lot of material that the sound is moving through. When it's air, the resonant qualities are lost. Hope I made sense here - third times a charm right  ... Other factors, in one video he admits to not being a good player, so maybe the amps (which are good ones) aren't set up right, maybe the electronics are good? The player him self? Many other factors as well. |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 13, 2012 22:25:09 GMT -5
I suspect acrylic, but then again, acrylic is a type of plastic. Here, nearby Akron, we've moved on, linguistically. Plastics, acrylics, rubber, styrene- they're all just "Polymers" nowadays. The original of these was The Dan Armstrong Guitar, marketed by Ampeg starting in the late 1960s, which was made out of Lucite™, which is/was a trademark of General Electric. Lucite is poly(methyl methacrylate), "PMMA", which is indeed an acrylic. Note that, with the Dan Armstrong, you also got the nifty woodgrain-decal pickguard. It also had interchangeable pickups, the single pickup could be slip out from under the strings via a ramp-shaped recess, visible in the photos. The sides of the pickup contained contacts that made an electrical connection via a metal track which held the pickup. It came with 6 different pickups, some were HBs, some were SCs.  Shortly after that guitar, the Japanese followed suit. Univox made an acrylic-bodied guitar in the early '70s. Just a bit of a history lesson for our chronologically-challenged members. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 13, 2012 22:33:18 GMT -5
I sense some confusion there...the 'sound' in the clip may not have been indicative of the guitar as such, but as much the player and the amp and tall that...you may 'think' you hear 'plastic' but really, I doubt that one could given the construction. As I say, in that department it is really the ability ot easily make some extraordinary 'shapes'... Oh no no, I understand. There isn't any sound for the plastic I get that. There is a block of wood from the neck to the bridge. Remove the plastic and that's what you'll get. What I am saying though, is to get away with this minimalism a skilled builder may be required to get it to sound better. When I think about why I don't like the sound ... It may be due to the resonance (or lack there of). On a guitar made of wood, carbon fiber, acrylic, stone (seen on YT) or even metal, there is a lot of material that the sound is moving through. When it's air, the resonant qualities are lost. Hope I made sense here - third times a charm right ... Other factors, in one video he admits to not being a good player, so maybe the amps (which are good ones) aren't set up right, maybe the electronics are good? The player him self? Many other factors as well. Well...yes....hmmm... In this example, it is 'solid body' electric gutiar. Other factors come into play with things like acoustic instruments, but the things you'd 'hear' in this type of instruments are reliant far mor on the other factors you menioned. that is not to say that 'anything' will produce a sound ('tone'  ) and it's 'goodness' is just a value judgement really. With something like an acoustic instrument, sure you can make a very good gutiar out of say 'carbon fibre'...not beause this is a high tech materia, though it's qualities really are advanageous in lots of ways. It might not be possible to make it sound 'exactly like an X' or such rubbish. It could be designed around materials to sculpt a sound you would prefer though. Regardless, sound will be made in all cases and the rest is exploring teh options in realtion to whatever material or materials one wishes to explore to eek out of them the sound you desire! ... Oh, the 'see through guitar'...well that is more a novely aesthetic factor don't you think? no considderation towards 'tone' nor often teh weight or practcality of it...drop it and it will shatter, expose it to elements and suse and it will become 'cloudiy', etc. "Spalt too has similar qualities, the 'tone' is completely subjective because the aesthetic qualities of it over ride other considerations. Well, hwy not...but don't kid oneself that that material is a reason for a better 'tone'...as such LOL |
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 14, 2012 14:34:23 GMT -5
In the example in the clip...both the neck and teh area betwen it and the bridge is of conventional 'wood' construction, the plastic is only to form the 'shape'....and so does little to affect the sound compared to these elements and other components. When old is old enough, he doesn't have to judge. In fact, he can challenge chronology, and do it successfully! All he has to do is get in the habit of dosing up with sufficient Ginko Biloba, and Voila!, he remembers, first, Allan Gittler:  (Image is a link....)And, in extremely rare cases, Emmett Chapman:  (Ditto....)Neither of these guys gained fame by ignoring tone. Indeed, that was their ultimate goal, to attain Tonal Nirvana in the most minimalistic fashion possible. (Or in the least materialistic way possible, if you prefer.) However, I must caution everyone reading this, even those of you who practice what I preach - Tone does not come from anything outside of you, it comes from inside. Period. I don't care what ReTrEaD's signature says, Tone comes from you, not the instrument. Don't believe me? (Hah! Foolish you. Siddown and shaddup, you're about get the smackdown of the day, delivered right to your eyeballs.)  Well, when's the last time you went into a guitar-oriented music store, and saw a nice $2000 PRS on the wall, just begging to be played.... and you were astounded that the clerks were allowing some 16 year old kid who couldn't play Chopsticks to mutilate this thing of beauty.  Now in your mind you just know this guitar is capable of sounding like Santana or Orianthi, but nooooo, here's a kid who makes Smoke On The Water painful to hear, and he might as well be playing a Teisco Del Rey from 1969. You need Dramamine, right now, to quell that nauseous feeling you're getting from this scene, right? Now picture Eric Clapton walking into the same store, the one where the floor is littered with Squiers and other such $99 specials. And Ol' Slowhand picks up one these beauties (off the floor - not the PRS), and proceeds to channel himself, ala the tasty bits of Crossroads. You just walked in, and you're ready to swear that CG has upgraded their in-house sound system, because you just know, in your gut, that Eric Clapton's album is sounding better than you've ever heard it before... am I right?  The moral of the story is easy to discern, but I'll spell it out anyway: Tone is inside of you. In case you don't believe that, re-read the above two paragraphs again, and as often as necessary until the light finally dawns on you - Tone is inside of you, not the other way around. The instrument is capable of only one thing, allowing you to express what's inside of you, it won't/can't make up for deficiencies such as lack of tone on your part. Despite Marketing Feldergarb doing its damnedest to convince you to the contrary. You need take only one thing away from this post: The difference between the big boys and the rest of us is not the quality of their toys, but the time invested in learning how to express one's self with said toys. Requests for clarification will cheerfully be filed appropriately. ;D That is all, you are now returned to your regularly scheduled Forum, already in progress.  HTH sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 14, 2012 17:07:38 GMT -5
I exaulted you, better go in and return it to zero!
That is very much what i've always pushed too, but not the prevailing culture. Any working instrument is going to make a 'sound' and music can thus be made from it, a really good plyer skilled in making music from such and instrument is going to be able to find 'something' in it and make music it work successfully. A poor musician is going to make anything sound crap.
It can be 'nice' to have or even need somre refinments to play certain kinds of music perhaps. nothing nearly as much as people promote though and always introducing compromise in other areas.
As for the plastic thing, on this instrument, the 'plastic' components are so little if any part of the 'sound' that it really can not be heard. Perhaps if the body were an acoustic, it would of course, but even then it would 'make a sound'. If you were any good or aspired to, you'd put the time in to find the music that one could effectively make music from its sound potential.
It's even worth making a bit of a pact not to go further than a perfectly decent guitar untill you 'outgrow it'...that also motivated and was a reason why it took a long time till I upgraded recently...and even then, I didn't drop an economic 'bomb' to get some 'uber guitar' worth more than my 'skills' such as they are, could justify playing!
|
|
|
|
Post by geo on Dec 14, 2012 18:59:50 GMT -5
sumgai: I feel like there are two approaches to making "tone" from an instrument. 1) You deck it out with very "warm" sounding electronics/body/strings, etc. and set it up so they can dial in any sound they like within a window of "good" sounds. Here the tone's certainly coming from the player, but they're picking it out from a very narrow, easy selection that you've provided them. 2) You deck it out with electronics that give them a ton of range. Here they've got the ability to make all sorts of nasty sounds (of course they always do, but here more so), but if they've got vision, they've got a lot more freedom with ohw to express themselved. 3) You make a "bad" instrument that cannot easily be made to sound the way "good" and "warm" tones do. Think Jack White playing with a piece of crap guitar; you have to come up with innovative ways of expressing yourself. The tone always comes from the player, but the instrument decides how they can channel it. You can tailor it to a specific tone or you can try to provide range. Or you can make it hard to get to the tones most people know and like, forcing yourself to be more creative.
|
|
|
|
Post by gumbo on Dec 15, 2012 7:19:08 GMT -5
Hmmm... ...just as well we can ignore the Elephant-in-the-Room (THE AMP!)...'cos that obviously has nothing to do with it... |
|
|
|
Post by geo on Dec 15, 2012 11:55:33 GMT -5
I wonder why we don't hear more people talking about the wood that goes into the amp, seeing as it's more resonant than the guitar... (What with a speaker cavity and all that loud noise and all.)
|
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 15, 2012 12:09:34 GMT -5
g-f-b, Got 4 words for you: garbage in, garbage out. Whatever you can or can't do with a guitar, the same goes for the amp. (Although I have met, and unfortunately had to listen to, guys who were playing the amp, not the guitar.... they just crapped all over the strings, and then tuned the amp for maximum distortion.... In their "state of bliss", they never perceived that no one believed for a moment that Dimebag Darryl was being channeled.) And the amp is ignoring what 4real and others have said - it's the player, regardless of the instrument, not just the instrument's perceived quality. The amp is only an additional part of that instrumentality. Take f'rinstance a strictly acoustic guitar, sans anything but air between it and the listener. One can espouse and extoll the virtues of acoustic axe A over B, but in the end, a $3000 Larribee still won't make me sound like Tommy Emmanuel, will it? It will only be a more expensive way for me to look like a fool who can't play, and most importantly, a fool who has no tone. There, I've said it, and I'm not gonna take it back. Although I'm a bit sorry that I've sounded so passionate about the topic.... hopefully no one has been reluctanct to post for fear that they might get jumped on. sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by long813 on Dec 15, 2012 14:57:30 GMT -5
g-f-b, Got 4 words for you: garbage in, garbage out. Whatever you can or can't do with a guitar, the same goes for the amp. (Although I have met, and unfortunately had to listen to, guys who were playing the amp, not the guitar.... they just crapped all over the strings, and then tuned the amp for maximum distortion.... In their "state of bliss", they never perceived that no one believed for a moment that Dimebag Darryl was being channeled.) And the amp is ignoring what 4real and others have said - it's the player, regardless of the instrument, not just the instrument's perceived quality. The amp is only an additional part of that instrumentality. Take f'rinstance a strictly acoustic guitar, sans anything but air between it and the listener. One can espouse and extoll the virtues of acoustic axe A over B, but in the end, a $3000 Larribee still won't make me sound like Tommy Emmanuel, will it? It will only be a more expensive way for me to look like a fool who can't play, and most importantly, a fool who has no tone. There, I've said it, and I'm not gonna take it back. Although I'm a bit sorry that I've sounded so passionate about the topic.... hopefully no one has been reluctanct to post for fear that they might get jumped on. sumgai Not sure how a Larribee will make your sound like TE when he plays Matons There is a difference in tonal qualities of a system (amp, guitar, pickups etc) and the player. A player can't make a Martin sound like a Taylor. Similarly, one can't make a les paul sound like a strat. A Fender like a Marshal? You always hear "X sounds the same no matter what gear he uses" ... and that's more on the playing style and technique than it is the actual tonal qualities you are listening to. It all does come down to the player making the tool sound good, but there still are inherent tonal properties of the tools used. My opinion of course |
|
|
|
Post by gumbo on Dec 15, 2012 19:01:49 GMT -5
"g-f-b, Got 4 words for you: garbage in, garbage out." ....but probably in my case, it also has a lot to do with what's left of my hearing as well!! ;D Yours stirringly, g-f-b  |
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 15, 2012 19:18:10 GMT -5
Hey, gummy, don't go all wimpy on us now... You brought amps to the party, now you gotta dance with 'em. ;D As for the wood of an amp's cabinet, I do recall seeing various arguments presented about that over the last few decades, but in an open-air setup, such as anywhere outside of a very controlled studio, then I'm afraid that the only thing differing woods can do is to detract from, or not detract from, the sound of the speaker. IOW, resonances should never be heard, as they are found at one frequency, or a small band of frequencies, and their harmonics. This is almost always noticible, and again almost always, noticible in a negative way. Better cabinets are made of particle board for a good reason, check 'em out. ;P In general though, I have been ranting like a Tone Nazi (Godwin strikes at last!), and I of all the members here have the least leg to stand on in such a discussion. Forgive me, it was only a momentary lapse in judgment, I'll try harder to keep it in check, next time..... I swear! ;D Though you gotta give Rune some credit - he got me to spout off several times in one thread, over just a few days. Quite out of the ordinary for me, these years.  And speaking of that worthy, he's only up to 28 Karma points, as of this writing. I was making book on this topic earning him a solid 30.... Good thing Jimmy the Greek isn't on my speed-dial! sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 15, 2012 19:35:26 GMT -5
long, Not sure how a Larribee will make your sound like TE when he plays Matons In Maton's home country of Oz-land, they run from 1 to 2 thousand dollars, Australian. Conversion rates between the upside-downers and the USA/Canada are always in flux, depending on the time of day, the phase of the moon, and Minister Conway's mood at the moment. But suffice to say, if we took their dollar at par with us, the Laribee will run you 50% to 200% more money, all other things being equal. Which goes again to show my point, that no matter the retail value of an instrument, it can't make a putz sound like a Puccini, no matter that TE picked up a 'decent' guitar for the money when he could've had the best on the planet. He also knows that no matter how much he spends (or what he accepts in return for his endorsement), his sound will still be that of Tommy Emmanuel, not that of some schmuck from Schenectady, NY. Hmmm..... Broken Records Are Us. Time for me to get up and go do something useful. sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 15, 2012 23:29:23 GMT -5
Interestingly TE is very generous with his time, signing any old gutiar and you know, thre are plenty of clips of TE playing all kinds of instruments from fans which he typically does and can still get a decent sound and 'him' out of just about anything.
And sure, the amp...and if going through effects, all part of the chain. There is a bit of 'fetishizing' I feel about the 'guitar' end of things in guitar 'culture' I feel.
Test your reality, biases and 'mojo' influences against non-guitar players. Amoungst other things, women are good for this! Ok, so while you might be impressed with all these switches or pointy shapes of 'black than thou' finishes, fastest guitar player on earth, etc, it might well have a very different effect on non-guitar players.
Another thing, cast yourself back to when this all started, it's perhaps trickier for people today where the 'image' is so linked, but I recall the time I could not really 'hear' the differences between gutiars and pickups and all that. To me, the solo is 'stairway' might well have been an LP through a wall of marshalls (instead of the infact standard tele through an 18 watt supro, as was most of theri early stuff)...this is how the vast majority of people hear you!
And...a tone tip...to sound like a 'good guitar player'...set the guitar up to play in tune, always play in tune and take care over time as well...nothing make you sound 'better' than that. Hence. for all the tricked out wiring and such, take a good hard look at the mechanics first before looking for some magic sound in hardware or pickups or wiring or anything else. These things are all cool, but it the gutiar does not play in tune and stay in tune, the rest will always sound crap.
And yeah, the amp, for the electric, that is doing a hell of a lot of the work. People regularly spend a lot on the guitar and play through some crappy practice amp, don't they! Or through a digital device that is really altering everything about the guitar, flattering you with compression and noise reduction and all that kind of thing! And yes, there is a bit in there about speaker cabinet design and types of wood and such I know.
And, clean will reveal all the 'sins' and give you a wider dynamic range and range of different tones. Refine skills clean, set up guitars clean and I've no doubt that you will get a better andwider range of 'dirty' if that is your bag. Be aware also that things do not always sound just as you might think. Listen to some isolation tracks and listen to the real 'tone' in tracks you like and you may well be surprised. Few of the 'classics' have the over saturated sound you might think from teh 'studio-ized' recording.
ok...well...there's another 2c
|
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 16, 2012 2:59:40 GMT -5
4, Gotta +1 ya for all that! But I think I'd widen up that part about 'fetishing' over guitars - I think it extends to all the parts of the signal chain where money can be spent, and thus where FelderGarb infests the mindset of the majority of players. If it's free, I for one can see clearly that there's no Quest For The Holy Grail regarding it. In fact, sadly there's only one thing that's free in this whole pile of potrzebie, and that's something money just can't buy: practice. Everything else (that I can think of, feel free to trump me) has some kinda price tag attached. But wouldn'tcha know it, practice is the one thing that only a select few actually pay attention to. Perhaps FelderGarb is robbing us of our attention span(s).....  Now, I really need to get down of this shaky soapbox, and let someone else chase his tail. sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Dec 16, 2012 3:32:58 GMT -5
Thanks Sum, I'd +1 you too, but taht would only make you return it to zero I think though that GN2, for all our nuttiness, has consistently held that underlying line, for all the GAS that effects us all and that is the wonder of the place, given the general nature of the forum's purpose. And yes, so hard to do the 'practice thing' ain't it! Means while, even though I 'did the right thing' and got a perfectly good guitar to do the job, you know I already want to do a little 'mod. I really would like soime nice locking tuners, perhaps I can do a deal with hipshot for some of theirs... and would like to experiement a bit more with stings as well, I think I went a little 'light' and just need to 'toughen up (with more practice). Again though, I'm after better tuning sability and string change hassle as since I've been exploring altered tunings a bit, well...locking tuners spoil one! |
|
|
|
Post by gumbo on Dec 16, 2012 7:45:42 GMT -5
Hmmm.. I got busy, ok sg, NOT wimpy..! While I think it is interesting that a couple of other posters have (in some way at east) taken up the "amp" thing, I will reiterate that I DO think that it does have a two-fold effect on things.. Consider if you will, that there can be a whole lot of differences between amps.. my '59 Tweed Bassman RI and my (tranny) Fender Sidekick 30 for example.. the two couldn't be more different if they tried..one has (to my ears at least!) the 'tone' I always wanted, the other I can pick up with two fingers and (almost!) run down the flight of stairs to the car.. and we're not even talking about the more-PA style stuff that I've realised I need for my guitar-synth stuff! Same instruments through both (I'm talking anything from Roland-Ready Strat to '72 Tele Custom to fretted & fretless versions of 25+year-old Squier Jazz basses) sound completely different to me..no matter HOW I try to fiddle with the dials.. each amp has its place in my life, though..if only for reasons of preserving what's left of my back from time-to-time.  POINT! : If I were to rely solely on something that gave me (what I would describe as) less-than what I would like in the way of 'tone', I believe I would at some point feel that it could impact on the enjoyment (?) that I would be getting from playing (AND practising!).. could be that start of an endless-loop here..finally disappearing up its own 1/4" jack! OTHER POINT! : About 15 years ago I sadly lost touch with a close friend who decided for many reasons to move overseas and start a new life.. My fondest memories of the musical times that we spent together, centre around his uncanny ability to make ANY guitar absolutely sing.. a true genius when it came to playing..and someone who shall forever live in my memory as proof that so much of the 'tone' is in the fingers of the player... Funniest memories of those times (the guy was an incredible serial owner of guitars, and would waltz into my place each week with his latest "absolutely best-ever guitar") were when he would ultimately sell these instruments on to fund the next obligatory purchase... I would sometimes be at his house when prospective purchasers called, and would sit there in awe of the demonstration sounds he could conjure up out of some indiscriminate old Strat or Tele... they would buy it, take it home, and then phone up the next day to ask what control settings they should use to get the same sounds as they had heard.... MAJOR POINT!! : I really DO believe that it is ALL the above things that contribute to what we think (!) we are producing...(and as 4real has rather beautifully pointed out) probably NOTHING like what the audience is in fact hearing.. the mere fact that they are further away from, or in a different place to, our position to the amp is enough, let alone some of them are either/or not interested, too drunk, too intent on the opposite sex, reckon they can play better with both hands tied behind their back, or plainly just should not have been at the gig in the first place.....better off at the football... CONCLUSION: Play whatever you want, made out of whatever floats your boat (but remember that Plexiglass doesn't float!), practice until the neighbo(u)rs can't stand it anymore...although that DOES have a relationship to how MANY Marshall stacks you can fit into your bedroom, and have fun writing about all this cr@p on Forums while you're waiting for the neighbo(u)rhood to subside or your fingers to stop bleeding! ;D HAPPY SILLY SEASON, FOLKS!!  |
|
) and it's 'goodness' is just a value judgement really. With something like an acoustic instrument, sure you can make a very good gutiar out of say 'carbon fibre'...not beause this is a high tech materia, though it's qualities really are advanageous in lots of ways. It might not be possible to make it sound 'exactly like an X' or such rubbish. It could be designed around materials to sculpt a sound you would prefer though. Regardless, sound will be made in all cases and the rest is exploring teh options in realtion to whatever material or materials one wishes to explore to eek out of them the sound you desire!
Well, when's the last time you went into a guitar-oriented music store, and saw a nice $2000 PRS on the wall, just begging to be played.... and you were astounded that the clerks were allowing some 16 year old kid who couldn't play Chopsticks to mutilate this thing of beauty. 
Now in your mind you just know this guitar is capable of sounding like Santana or Orianthi, but nooooo, here's a kid who makes Smoke On The Water painful to hear, and he might as well be playing a Teisco Del Rey from 1969. You need Dramamine, right now, to quell that nauseous feeling you're getting from this scene, right? 
