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Post by newey on Apr 9, 2024 19:48:09 GMT -5
reTrEaD, chrisdurham- RT's diagram checks out by me, with the proviso that the white wire connects to common lugs on both switches. Where the zigzag was drawn over the series/parallel switch, it threw me at first as to whether a connection was intended there- it is.
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Post by newey on Apr 9, 2024 8:52:52 GMT -5
Harding used it to talk about he and his buddies sitting on the front porch "bloviating", a more polite way of saying "shooting the Sh*t". Harding was an interesting guy although a lousy President. There is a debate among historians as to whether he was, in fact, our first Black President; there were rumors (and some evidence as well) to suggest that his grandparents may have been passing as white for decades before Warren was born. He also fathered an illegitimate child a year before he was elected President, and then paid money to keep it a secret while in the White House. He was also rumored to have been poisoned at his death, although this was never confirmed.
I always assumed that your "users with nothing but self-importance" are simply repeating marketing-speak they read somewhere online. Once folks get a particular notion in their minds it can be difficult to unseat it.
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Post by newey on Apr 9, 2024 8:28:49 GMT -5
it's easy when seeking guidance on these topics instead to find a torrent of unhelpful and / or inaccurate bloviation. "Bloviation" comes to us courtesy of former US President Warren G. Harding, FYI. The torrent comes from people trying to sell you something. We're not.
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Post by newey on Apr 7, 2024 13:05:30 GMT -5
Shorting the neck red wire to ground at position 3 probably won't make any difference. The (relatively minor) issue of hanging coils is only of any concern if the coil is attached to the "hot" output and disconnected at the ground side. This is what we mean by "hanging from hot". In your original diagram, the neck green/red coil is hanging from ground, not hot (i.e., the green wire is permanently grounded, while the red wire is simply disconnected at # 3). Hanging from ground is not a concern at all.
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Post by newey on Apr 7, 2024 12:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Apr 7, 2024 6:09:47 GMT -5
Since it's all just one big interconnected shield, it's not an infinite number of loops, it's just one big one. Fralin isn't be the first manufacturer to go astray on this subject, and they probably won't be the last. In the majority of electrical wiring, such as inside your amplifier, or in any stereo, radio, TV, etc., ground loops do matter. But not in your guitar cavity.
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2024 21:45:05 GMT -5
JohnH- Well Done! I couldn't figure it.
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2024 15:48:17 GMT -5
On further review, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, as they say. I can't see how to get this done with the bridge HB in parallel at position 2. I could give you the Bridge split coil at 2, and at 3 with the N split coil, but I run out of switching for the parallel. Thought I had it but I was wrong. Maybe someone else will have the "light bulb moment" that I'm not getting . . .
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2024 14:42:26 GMT -5
Arrgh! Spotted a mistake in the diagram already. Have to do a version 2.0 later, I think I see the corrections I need to make.
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2024 14:39:13 GMT -5
stateofepicicity- Sometimes you have to put pen to paper. This still isn't exactly what you want (and my confidence level that it will work is pretty low, it needs another set of eyes or two). But I'm close, so perhaps what you want is possible. Here's my sloppy diagram, it does what you want (I think) except I have the Bridge V and T active at position 3 instead of the neck V and T. Also, I have the bridge HB splitting to the N coil (assuming SD polarities, you said SD color codes but didn't say if they were actually Duncans or not) and the neck HB splitting to the S coil, which may or may not correspond wiith your inner/outer coils. I think I can get to exactly what you want if we split to the S coil of the Bridge HB and the N coil of the neck, the wiring just swaps the coils around at position 3, IOW. Then we should be able to get the N V and T with the '50's wiring at postion 3. Also note that one coil is "hanging from hot" at position 3. Not a deal-breaker, but I'm not happy with it. It may be correctable if the diagram has to be redone as per the above note. Also note that several grounds have been omitted for clarity, I didn't tie all the pot shells together, omitted the string/bridge ground, etc.
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2024 12:55:18 GMT -5
Yeah, so if you're using any of the Superswitch poles to switch the V and T pots (and your partial diagram shows using 2 of the 4 for that), then you won't have enough poles for the pickup switching. At least, as I see it, unless someone more clever than I has a better idea.
Also, we should mention that you would want to have one N and one S coil combined at position 3 so as to have it be hum-cancelling with both HBs split. Depending on the pickups you have, this might mean needing to rotate one of the HBs 180° so that the neck outer and brige inner are of opposite polarity.
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Post by newey on Apr 6, 2024 7:38:15 GMT -5
Electrically, the Schaller Megaswitch "M" is equivalent to a Superswitch, so if it can't be done with a Superswitch, then it can't be done with a Megaswitch M.
I think this probably can be done, however. But I'm wondering about the V and T controls at position 3, where you said you wanted the Neck pickup's volume and tone to control that setting. I'm unclear if the Neck V and T will be active at position 3 for just the neck pickup, or if you want the Neck V and T to control both HBs at position 3.
If you can live with both sets of V and T pots active in position 3, then each pickup's V and T pots get wired "across" that pickup, before the 5-way switch. They then get wired just like in an LP, and we don't need to use a pole for the Superswitch to switch pots in/out of the circuit. That's my question mark here, I think I can visualize how to do this except for the controls at position 3.
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Post by newey on Apr 5, 2024 7:00:46 GMT -5
Yes. And often the bridge/string ground as well, I often just attach that to the cavity shielding where it comes through the hole rather than string a wire to the star ground point.
I should have clarified that we don't want any part of the signal chain to touch the shielding.
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Post by newey on Apr 5, 2024 6:57:33 GMT -5
The concern for ground loops is the potential to introduce noise into our guitar signal. A ground loop that is contained within your shielding is not in the signal path, and hence cannot induce noise into your signal.
Even ground loops that are in the signal path are of minimal concern in a guitar cavity as they are typically too short of a loop to induce any significant noise. But in your example, the loops are completely irrelevant.
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Post by newey on Apr 4, 2024 17:37:57 GMT -5
unreg- You don't want any electrical connection to make contact with your shielding, whether paint, foil, copper tape, whatev. At any point. That doesn't mean you need to tape over the entire shielding, just the parts that are potentially close to a connection or solder lugs. Rotate your pots when installing so the lugs face inward rather than towards the cavity wall. If any switches are right close to the shielding, then I'll add a strip of tape over it just to be on the safe side. But it's never been necessary to do much of it. Most connections should be far enough away that no contatct would ever happen unless a connection broke and a wire went a-wandering loose- in which case you'd be going back in to resolder anyway. On my 4caster, I was concerned due to 4 DPDTs which came dangerously close to the cavity shielding. They weren't touching, but my concern was that, over time, the cheap single-ply pickguard might warp slightly (The weight of 4 single-coil pickups worried me a bit). So, in that particular case I taped over the cavity wall opposite those switches. But ordinarily, there is really no prospect of there being contact made, assuming the build techniques/procedures were proper from the start.
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Post by newey on Apr 4, 2024 11:38:23 GMT -5
As an alternative, I've also seen the center of the star created by putting ring terminals on each star wire and joining them together by a single screw in the side of the lined cavity. I have done this as well for a star ground. However, word to the wise. Don't rely on just crimping the connectors onto the wires, put a drop of solder on there to be sure. Also, use small-sized ring connectors, they need to be of the correct gauge wire you are using (usually 22 or 24 gauge). And ring terminals work better than spade terminals- I've tried those, too, and the spades keep slipping off the screw as you're trying to screw the whole thing down. Depending on your cavity, you may also need a right-angle screwdriver to screw into the side of the cavity. I would not screw into the bottom of the cavity, there's not much wood there and you might poke through it.
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Post by newey on Apr 3, 2024 5:33:05 GMT -5
I take it you are willing to lose the alternate capacitors on the tone pot push/pulls to achieve the other combos, correct? And perhaps lose the Vol pot resistor on the push/pull, too?
If you repurpose one of the push/pulls as a "bridge on" switch (or neck on, either way), you will get the first 7 combinations on your list- all 7 possible parallel combinations of 3 pickups (ignoring phase options).
Another push/pull could then be repurposed as a series/parallel switch on either the neck or bridge pickup, to put that pickup in series with whatever is selected by the 5-way switch. If you wired it to the neck pickup, let's say, you would then add the N X B, N X M, and N X (B + M). You wouldn't have the M X B or M X (B + N). To get those other 2 combos, you'd have to have a second series/parallel switch (which could be the third push/pull) on either the middle or bridge pickup.
I frankly doubt a second series/parallel switch will be worth the extra effort and complexity. Several of those combos where one pickup is in parallel with 2 others in series won't sound appreciably different from one another (assuming the pickups are of the same type/construction). B X (M + N) will probably not sound too different from B + (M X N), for example. Just my 2¢.
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Post by newey on Apr 2, 2024 19:57:00 GMT -5
Yes, I think we have to activate it or some such. Which I believe is now done. And yes, thanks unreg!
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Post by newey on Apr 2, 2024 5:38:43 GMT -5
Two of the switch's sections go C12345 and the other two go 12345C. stevewf referred to the "Industry Standard" Superswitch. but we should first be sure which type tommyd2 actually has in hand, as there are some variations between types. Just so we're clear, an Oak Grigsby Superswitch has its lugs as follows C 12345 12345 C C 12345 12345 C
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Post by newey on Mar 30, 2024 8:37:43 GMT -5
The diagram looks OK except that, by using the 5-way switch to split the coils at positions 2 and 4, you lose the ability to split the coils for N and B at position 3 (unless you want the coils to always be split at position 3, but I don't think you'd want that).
BTW, where did you get that diagram? It's always good to give credit where due.
If you give me a day or two, I can probably pull a diagram together for you with all the options you want.
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Post by newey on Mar 29, 2024 7:32:00 GMT -5
tommyd2- OK, that clears things up. So, think of this design as a series of individual modules. You have the module for the phase switch above. If that is to go on the bridge, bridge + and - get wired to the phase switch as shown, first in line after the bridge pickup. The "series junction" of the bridge HB (the 2 "finish" wires as shown on the diagram), instead of being wired to each other only, instead are wired together to one center lug of the coil split switch. The "series junction" for the neck HB gets wired to the other middle lug of the coil split switch. The diagram you have for the coil split switch is for only one HB, and uses only one pole of the DPDT. You will use both poles, such that the neck HB's "series junction" connects to output when pulled and the bridge HB "series junction" connects to ground. This arrangement will then split one HB to the N coil and the other to the S coil so that, when both are split together at position 3, the combo is hum-cancelling. This assumes, however, that your 2 HBs are identical. If they are not, you may need to do some testing to see which coils are the N and which are the S as this will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Using the above as a start, you should try to rough out a diagram with the modules you posted. We'll then make sure you're headed in the right direction to get to a final diagram. For the superswitch, there are several different ways to get the combos you want, but I would do it using one pole of the superswitch to control the N and B pickups in positions 1,2,4 and 5, omitting position 3. Another pole switches the middle pup in/out as needed at positions 2 and 4. A third pole is then used to combine the N abd B at position 3. Fourth pole is unused. V and T pots will be just as with any similar wiring. You don't have a blend pot diagram, so let's hold off on that for now and we'll add it in once you get a diagram for the pickup switching worked out. BTW, the link you provided to the "Blend Pot" looks to be just a regular pot, there's no need to buy a specialized pot for the blender, and it doesn't look like there's anything special about the pot in your link (except for a premium price!)
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Post by newey on Mar 28, 2024 21:18:26 GMT -5
tommyd2- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!tone push-pull to phase reverse (up) for both pups You have three pickups, so I'm not clear on the "both pups" part. A DPDT switch can reverse the phase of one pickup only. If, for example, you wire it to swap the phase of the the neck pickup, you get the neck OOP with the Mid at position 2, and the neck OOP with the bridge at position 3. You don't get the bridge OOP with the mid, however. If you put the phase switch on the bridge pickup instead, you'll get the bridge OOP with the mid at 4, and OOP with the neck at 3, but you won't get the neck and mid OOP. To get all 3 possible OOP settings, more switching would be needed. But it's probably not worthwhile to worry about getting all 3 OOP combos, pick the 2 that you'd like best. Either option, whether the neck or bridge is the OOP pickup, gives you the N + Bridge OOP, which will be the most useful OOP setting. Either the N OOP with the Mid or the Brodge OOP with the mid is likely to have too much signal cancellation to be really useful. So pick whichever of the two options you want and forget the third. The N + B OOP is the one you want anyway. Just IMO, of course. You would not, IMO, want to phase the middle pickup 'cause then you lose the B and N OOP. Blending . . .what? It does require a Superswitch (or similar), for that neck/bridge combo at position 3, if nothing else. I'm reading this to mean that both HBs will be split simultaneously, both are split or neither is split, correct? Sorry for all the questions. All of this is doable, we just need to nail things down a bit more before we talk specifics.
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Post by newey on Mar 28, 2024 20:55:15 GMT -5
theothersimon- This Board has been trucking along for about 18 years now, and we've sort of developed our own jargon on some things. It's not extensive, so I don't know that a glossary of some sort would really help much. You wondered, you asked, I answered- that seems an efficient way to handle these things. If we did a glossary, people probably wouldn't find it, and they'd ask the same questions anyway. And we would answer if we could. Some of the basics are covered in our references section, though. Just feel free to ask questions as needed.
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Post by newey on Mar 28, 2024 5:39:41 GMT -5
I have read quite a lot of conversation about having pickups 'hanging from hot' - and actually I am not sure what this really means or what the impact of it is - I am assuming it might result in noise or loss of signal/ tone in some way? There are four ways to disconnect a pickup so that it is not operating at a given switch position. You can short the pickup to itself, hot to ground. You can disconnect the "hot" connection. You can disconnect the ground connection. Or, you can disconnect both connections. In order of preference, ideally, we would disconnect both wires, taking the pickup out of the circuit entirely. But there are often too few switch poles to do so, and we must then choose another option Shorting the pickup to itself is also OK, but there may be certain wiring schemes where that would dull the tone a bit, so in some situations we wouldn't want to do that, either. Cutting the "hot" connection, leaving the pickup connected to ground, is also fine. We have had some debate here over whether this has any effect on tone or not, the consensus is that it does not. Worst of the four options is to cut the ground connection, which then leaves the coil connected only at the "hot" output side. We say the coil is "hanging from the hot". This is to be avoided as a "best practices" sort of thing as it could theoretically induce more noise into the signal. In most cases you probably wouldn't notice any difference in the noise level, but there could be certain electric environments (i.e., bar gig with dodgy fluourescent lights, fan motors, etc.) that might be noisier. So we try to avoid hanging coils where possible. Sometimes it is not possible in order to accomplish a particular switching, so we elect to live with it. IOW, it's not a major issue, just a preference.
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Post by newey on Mar 27, 2024 12:01:51 GMT -5
stevewf- We do, there is a thread from when SD first issued the Triple Shot™ pickup rings where we sussed out the wiring and also discussed possible other wirings which might be done with them. I'll have to search for that thread. But you are correct thet the Triple Shots use what we call the "binary tree" wiring (albeit with slide switches) EDIT: Found it: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4157
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Post by newey on Mar 26, 2024 11:27:33 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Mar 21, 2024 13:18:50 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Mar 18, 2024 2:28:37 GMT -5
No ideas on using a speaker cone, you would be the guinea pig on that. I used a 250K pot. I tried 2 piezo elements, in both series and parallel, at varied locations in the box (top, sides, further apart) and heard no difference. That may be the size of the box, though- a bigger separation, I suspect, would give a different sound if the enclosure were big enough to permit it.
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Post by newey on Mar 17, 2024 20:14:11 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Mar 17, 2024 19:43:38 GMT -5
Did you look at the tutorial I linked to?
OK, so a percussive stomp box. That is something I have built, and have some experience. Although I didn't try any mag pickups.
But I did experiment with 2 piezo elements, located at different points on the inside of the cigar box I was using. Using 2 piezos didn't make any difference, and I did try it with a blend control, briefly, before just simplfying things down -one piezo with a volume control. I got the most realistic kind of bass-drum sounding "thump" by dampening out the cigar box with some poly upholstery batting, loosely packed inside. Ran it through a bass amp with the EQ stack turned all the way down to "0".
But don't let me stop you from experimenting. I'll see if I can find the thread from when I was building this, it was about a dozen years ago or so.
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