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Post by pyrroz on Dec 20, 2022 7:34:56 GMT -5
Why is there such a thing? This is supposed to be a 2nd mod to the SD livewire metal pickup (maybe the hottest pickup ever). The 1st mod was about adding a mini internal voltage divider (aka tone pot) set fixed at about 30% so that it balances with the neck.
Now I need to tame the mids as well.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 20, 2022 13:43:40 GMT -5
It sounds like you need a better preamp...or one with a midrange pot. My Ibanez ATK has a midrange pot...probably the only one of the three I ever move...
Frets had some interesting stuff, but I don't know how that plays with an active circuit.
Someone with a clue should be by soon...
HTC1
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 20, 2022 14:07:27 GMT -5
It sounds like you need a better preamp...or one with a midrange pot. My Ibanez ATK has a midrange pot...probably the only one of the three I ever move... Frets had some interesting stuff, but I don't know how that plays with an active circuit. Someone with a clue should be by soon... HTC1
the mids are imbalanced between the neck pup and the bridge pup. The neck is a classic sounding neck pup. (trebly). The bridge is a mid monster. I gotta tame that!
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 20, 2022 14:29:14 GMT -5
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 20, 2022 15:05:52 GMT -5
lotsa study material there Cyn1... I am freaking old and tired but I got understand this new stuff
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 20, 2022 15:30:23 GMT -5
I've got more than 70 dog years on you...kids...jeez...  Do you have an EQ on your amp, or an EQ pedal...might be a simple way around it without dragging out the soldering iron... HTC1 |
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Post by b4nj0 on Dec 21, 2022 4:53:22 GMT -5
It seems to me that with its series LC topography to deck, a Varitone scratches that itch, but as has been noted an EQ (and I would suggest a parametric EQ such as I have on my brace of Yamaha G100-112s) would pass muster. Again as already noted, we are blessed with other much sharper chisels than myself.
でつ e&oe ...
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Post by MattB on Dec 21, 2022 19:05:55 GMT -5
Since this is an active pickup a bridged-T filter should work fine. You can make a fixed filter with two caps and two resistors, or you can replace one of the resistors with a pot to control the level of cut.   C1 controls the high frequency slope. Make it smaller to shift the slope up, or bigger to shift the slope down:  C2 does the same thing for the low slope:  So for a deeper, wider cut make C1 smaller and C2 bigger. To move the notch to a higher frequency reduce C1 and C2 by the same proportion. These graphs assume the filter is being fed from a low impedance source. If the source impedance is too high, this filter will cut some treble above the notch. If the filter is on the bridge pickup only, it will also cut some treble from the neck when both are selected.
I would expect the impedance of active pickups to be low enough that neither of these things is much of a problem, but I don't know for sure.
This is about as cheap and simple as you can get. Since your pickup is too loud to begin with, I don't think an active design is worth the extra complexity, unless you really need finer control over the sound.
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 23, 2022 3:04:54 GMT -5
Thank you MattB allow me some time to digest this. I am so so tired at the moment.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 23, 2022 9:43:06 GMT -5
Granted, I've never owned more than one instrument with active electronics, but when looking for onboard preamps for guitars, versus bass, there aren't a lot of onboard options available. I did find this: Noll TCM3 3-band bass EQ with VolumeI don't know where you'd put the 3rd battery... This is the type of control setup I have on my one active bass. I will say, the ability to tweak the midrange is really handy on a bass, so I can only imagine how this translates to guitar...but it can't hurt in your current situation...provided the Livewires play well with it... If anyone with a clue sees any inherent flaws in my reasoning, please feel free to correct it at your earliest convenience. I admit this topic is well out of effective range for my personal experience to be effective. I'm still digesting MattB's post, too...and I'm not even tired... HTC1 EDIT: Fixed link, but pointed to Google Search results - prices vary widely across the globe. sumgai. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 23, 2022 14:41:23 GMT -5
Hi Cyn1! this link points to this very post! It seems we need vacations! Merry XMAS PPL!!!
EDIT: c1's link has been fixed. sumgai. |
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Post by JohnH on Dec 23, 2022 16:03:35 GMT -5
One thing I reckon about most such tone-shaping circuits is that they mostly cut away at the basic tone, ar least to some extent, even in their most neutral 'off' settings. It just because of the loading that they apply.
So I think that, if such tone shaping is wanted, it's a good idea to consider adding a switch too, to cut the tone-shaping control right out of circuit to be able to get back to an unloaded condition when wanted.
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Post by MattB on Dec 23, 2022 19:38:40 GMT -5
Thank you MattB allow me some time to digest this. I am so so tired at the moment. It's your project, go at whatever speed you want. I'm far from an expert, but I'm happy to give whatever help I can. Granted, I've never owned more than one instrument with active electronics, but when looking for onboard preamps for guitars, versus bass, there aren't a lot of onboard options available. I did find this: Noll TCM3 3-band bass EQ with VolumeI don't know where you'd put the 3rd battery... The TCM3 can run at 18V, so it could use the same supply as the pickups. I see the centre frequency for the mid control is 400Hz- that seems like it might be a bit low for a guitar. Noll also sell a version with a variable frequency mid control. That seems like it would be more suitable- but it uses a non-standard jack ("9 lug stereo jack" is what the wiring diagram says), so fitting it in a strat might not be possible. www.noll-electronic.de/guitar-electronics/tcm-3-pm-g/ |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 23, 2022 20:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 24, 2022 1:02:04 GMT -5
I maybe an idiot causing trouble. I should put out some vids how the guitar sounds, the pinch harmonics are killer especially on the 3 heavier strings. Distorted it sounds super nice. Clean so and so. No highs, not big bass present. So harmonics on strings 1,2 do not work. The mids are over the roof, so this makes solos cut through.
Maybe a keeper (in the sense of not adding anything, or changing pickups), maybe if the sound / tone is in the guitar, maybe I should try a different pup combo and then either keep this combo or revert to the current configuration. I have a decent SSS pickguard assembled from a previous incarnation, maybe I should try with that as well.
Or just accept the fact that I like it, (just being different from anything else out there) , STFU, and post some vids....
On Thursday we were recording, our new song, I showed up with the other strat (the genuine Aria) , the keyboards player and leader told me, where this other tone you had on the rehearsal, meaning the white strat.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 24, 2022 9:52:07 GMT -5
Doubtful...those spots are all taken by elected officials... I think that's a great idea. What works, what fails...what won't go back in the bottle... Your guitar is different than anything else out there. You have just taken a collection or parts that never met each other until you put them in a pile...and screwed them into a piece of wood. Here's what I learned. Upwards of 90% of all guitar\bass players will choose from chocolate, vanilla or strawberry versions of an instrument. They will leave it stock and only consider changing a component if it fails...then, for some odd reason, they want an exact version of whatever component failed...regardless of the fact that it failed because it was flawed...or just junk. Diving in to the world of "pimp my axe" is going to be a lonely place with few trails to follow. You will find that most of the aftermarket items available to you are designed to fit into the same chocolate, vanilla or strawberry guitars. No one ventures far from shore. You have just taken pickups, that apparently can TIG weld, and stuck them in a piece of wood, screwed another piece of wood to it and plugged it in. Since I can't recall another model with an Aria neck, body of Asian origin, a discontinued model of SD pickup and a SuperVee trem...I'm guessing it's going to sound a bit like something you've never heard before. One thing hardly mentioned here is the learning curve on custom instruments. Example: The Aria backup guitar. Super Strat as I recall...anyway, since it's a Strateque model common to the industry, you likely have a sweet spot for volume and tone on the guitar and amp that you can capture within a few minutes. Same with a Les Paul, Jazzmaster, P-Bass, J-Bass...etc... Because those configurations are a standard..almost...players can can dial in their tone like setting cruise control...or likely have tape holding knobs in place to ensure no surprises come showtime. Then, you introduce something that upsets that paradigm. Amps, pedals, etc...are now, with the white Strat, all receiving a different signal than the original Aria...which you know by heart by now. You may even find your physical playing changing with the white Strat guitar versus the Aria. Here's a fine example. Back in 2007-8 Guilford Guitars made a guitar for Tom Morello. It had a sustainer designed by one of our members...and it was just a beautiful instrument:  What do you see Tom Morello play onstage?  Why? My guess is Tom, the guitar tech and the sound guy all know how it behaves onstage. Why tempt fate... I give you credit with sticking with this as long as you have. Remember, this guitar only has to sound like you when you play. If it enhances or inspires something new in your playing it's a win. If it doesn't...well, you've already made enough holes in this guitar...what's a few more. You have nothing to lose by continued experiments and enhancements. Yeah, there's that. I wondered if it wasn't a bass preamp. Onboard preamps for guitars really seems to be a tough item to find. Part of me thinks you should leave the physical configuration of the guitar alone and try some EQ on the signal. I thought all you metal guys already had something to scoop mids with.  Low string action, poor intonation and strings are the big three on that one, typically. Are you still using an electron microscope to set your string height? Stay with it, Greek. It only has to sound good to you. HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 24, 2022 13:58:49 GMT -5
great post Cyn1!
action height is ok, it breaths, the problem with e string harmonics is in the bridge pup, neck pup can do some, on the same notes. I tried all along the length for some harmonic so not an intonation thing. Meanwhile harmonics scream on the 3 heavier strings + G (ok G sounds great as well). Maybe b too. But I can't make it scream on high e. I got the Carvin for those missions!
The sound distorted is so so lovely, controlled, tight, powerful.
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 24, 2022 18:27:13 GMT -5
Are you still using an electron microscope to set your string height? Bad idea. Electron Microscopy requires a vacuum environment. That would boil off any moisture trapped in the wood and solvents remaining in the finish. Could result in a permanent tone-suck. What? You were just saying that as an exaggeration of low action and pickup height close to the strings?  |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 24, 2022 23:04:11 GMT -5
What? You were just saying that as an exaggeration of low action and pickup height close to the strings? Yeah...sarcasm... As I understand it, a harmonic is equivalent to creating a standing wave on a guitar string. When you fret the last fret, what are your clearances on the neck and bridge pickups on the high and low E strings? HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 25, 2022 3:33:09 GMT -5
What? You were just saying that as an exaggeration of low action and pickup height close to the strings? Yeah...sarcasm... As I understand it, a harmonic is equivalent to creating a standing wave on a guitar string. When you fret the last fret, what are your clearances on the neck and bridge pickups on the high and low E strings? HTC1
I am at my mom's town (home town), away from the guitar, but I'd say between 2.5mm and 2mm (Low E, high E), neck & bridge.
maybe I should leave this guitar as is, or try with the SSS configuration then with HSH (EMG 85 bridge-unknown chinese middle-81 neck) and see how this guitar responds.
... In the meantime, the other body came .... the floyd rose one  |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 25, 2022 22:12:22 GMT -5
Fender typically uses 3/32" (2.38mm) as a starting point on single coils. I don't honestly know what the recommendation would be for active Livewires.
When you get back home after over eating today, and there is room to drop the bridge pickup on the high E side, try quarter or half turns to lower and test if your harmonics improve after each adjustment. If they return, stop moving it and test if everything else worked. You've already set the intonation, right?
You could. Your bandmates heard something they liked with the white Strat. Before you redesign it, you might get more out of refining what you have now. The dimension detailed above is merely a starting point...your sweet spot may be elsewhere...and no matter what else you swap out, there's still a dial in required as nothing on your guitar is stock.
Give my best to your Mom.
HTC1
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 26, 2022 1:44:01 GMT -5
Fender typically uses 3/32" (2.38mm) as a starting point on single coils. I don't honestly know what the recommendation would be for active Livewires. When you get back home after over eating today, and there is room to drop the bridge pickup on the high E side, try quarter or half turns to lower and test if your harmonics improve after each adjustment. If they return, stop moving it and test if everything else worked. You've already set the intonation, right? You could. Your bandmates heard something they liked with the white Strat. Before you redesign it, you might get more out of refining what you have now. The dimension detailed above is merely a starting point...your sweet spot may be elsewhere...and no matter what else you swap out, there's still a dial in required as nothing on your guitar is stock. Give my best to your Mom. HTC1
Thanks Cyn1. I must put a trusted set of strings first, then redo intonation. Those are full size HB, so they sense a wider area than single coils, so if a frequency is there it should be picked up by the pup. The heights were dialed after lots of trials to make the best of balance between neck and bridge, having dialed the internal bridge's pot to 30% of the volume. I might try moving the bridge down or up, but the mids are so loud, and in clean channel it is very audible, that I believe this is the typical sound.
also I must test unplugged. IMHO an harmonic must be there unplugged in order to be sensed plugged. Not a big deal in any case. I asked the keyboards player but he was unsure. I gotta bring both guitars at the rehearsal and let them decide, although IME a guitarist should not expect much of advise from non-guitarists, the singer (the female one, we have two) was suggesting that the effects box is old and needs repair ...
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 26, 2022 10:23:58 GMT -5
...I must put a trusted set of strings first, then redo intonation. Yeah, that's a basepoint to troubleshoot the issue. I've read articles that active pickups tend to have less coil wiring, but they make it up with a small preamp. That's why I feel particularly unqualified to offer any valid opinion on active pickups and string height. Hopefully, someone with a clue arrive and educates me... I agree. Physics is. Tell that to Ted Templeton. He was the non-guitarist who signed Van Halen... You aren't looking for advice, you're looking for reaction. Start warming up and see what they do. If they stop momentarily and check it out, you may be on to something. If they run to grab cocktail napkins to shove in their ears...grab the Aria... HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 29, 2022 3:58:07 GMT -5
Cyn1 I tested with the Carvin. Unplugged. The Carvin screams in high E pinch harmonics, but sound weak when playing pinch harminics on low A and low E. The new white strat is not audible with pinch harmonics on high E, but screams loud on low A and E.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 29, 2022 9:39:52 GMT -5
New strings on both?
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 29, 2022 11:53:39 GMT -5
ehmm old on both  , but i cant be the upper register of E only, I mean the rest of positions produce loud harmonics! |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 29, 2022 12:07:04 GMT -5
This is one of those "you must reboot to continue" troubleshooting things... It's all about eliminating variables.
HTC1
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 13, 2023 0:59:52 GMT -5
Hello just an update I changed strings, daddario 9-42, re-did the intonation. Still the guitar unplugged cannot produce strong harmonics on 1st string. I tend to believe its all in the construction, woods, materials, fitting.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 13, 2023 11:31:16 GMT -5
I've never been particularly good at pinch harmonics, but players who are have told me there's a sweet spot to grab them on any guitar. Have you looked for them in a different spot? I.E.: Closer to the bridge or nut with the picking hand? Fretted at different locations with the left hand? I don't recall what kind of nut is on that guitar. The first place I'd look is at the breakover. String trees, a better cut nut slot... If it's a locking nut...well we'll cross that bridge when we come to it... The SuperVee is not a cheap piece of gear. You might want to check for anything loose, but I don't think that's your issue...especially if the intonation is correct. Humor me and try raising the action a bit. Raise it a little, test...try it few times, if necessary, to see what happens to the harmonics on the high E string. If nothing improves after raising the action as high as it'll go...then you know it's not the action. I appreciate that raising your string action may give you metal guys a rash or cold sweats, but it subsides once you drop it back, trust me... Something is likely interfering with the string's natural vibration. The trick is finding it. HTC1 |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 13, 2023 14:19:11 GMT -5
I've never been particularly good at pinch harmonics, but players who are have told me there's a sweet spot to grab them on any guitar. Have you looked for them in a different spot? I.E.: Closer to the bridge or nut with the picking hand? Fretted at different locations with the left hand? I don't recall what kind of nut is on that guitar. The first place I'd look is at the breakover. String trees, a better cut nut slot... If it's a locking nut...well we'll cross that bridge when we come to it... The SuperVee is not a cheap piece of gear. You might want to check for anything loose, but I don't think that's your issue...especially if the intonation is correct. Humor me and try raising the action a bit. Raise it a little, test...try it few times, if necessary, to see what happens to the harmonics on the high E string. If nothing improves after raising the action as high as it'll go...then you know it's not the action. I appreciate that raising your string action may give you metal guys a rash or cold sweats, but it subsides once you drop it back, trust me... Something is likely interfering with the string's natural vibration. The trick is finding it. HTC1
These are the Squealies I am talking about ! so nut does not play any role, and also they can be delivered at the half length of their respected-expected length. Those are standard positions, for each note, each frequency.
so for half the length they ring louder than the normal. Also for the majority of the notes, it seems like the signal carries a great deal of the harmonics, which sounds so so nice. EXCEPT the very high notes!!!
so I am 100% confident this is the guitar. Unplugged the Carvin is completely different. YES, wood matters!!
"I appreciate that raising your string action may give you metal guys a rash or cold sweats, but it subsides once you drop it back, trust me"
but will go back exactly to where it was ... hahahaha terrifying!!!
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, but i cant be the upper register of E only, I mean the rest of positions produce loud harmonics!