Help Please, re-wire of Fender Jaguar/Jazzmaster.

[vince20]

I'm new to this forum and it has only taken me about 1 hour to work out how to create a post. That, I suppose gives an indication about my IQ.

Now to the serious stuff, I have a Fender Jazzmaster/Jaguar. It doesnt matter which at this stage because I have stripped most of the wiring and added a third pickup which is Humbucker as a neck pickup.
I want to create a wiring circuit that works from the original adaptaion of pickup selection switches in the lower bout, that is Neck pickup, Mid pickup, Bridge pickup or any combination that is available using the 3 switches. Each switch has 6 soldering terminals.
Next I have a Rhythm/Treble Switch on the upper bout (also with six solering terminals) with 1 x 1 meg linear volume mini pot and 1 x 50K linear tone mini pot. This set of switch and pots are to controll Rhythm playing (chords etc.) using the neck Humbucker pickup. This Humbucker is a 1963 Gibson humbucker and has ground sheilded hot wire.
The Mid and bridge pickups are single coil Seymour Duncan Vintage '54 Tele set.
I  have 1 x 500 K master Volume pot and 2 x 500 K Tone pots. These are original fender linear taper pots, and of course a guitar input jack. Or should I term that as output jack?

You probably have guessed that I am wishing to achieve a jazzy rhythm section using the Humbucker while cutting out the single coils. Alternatively, I want the single coils (Mid and Bridge {and possibly neck}) to be lead playing pickups giving a country sound either independantly or as a combination. This may have to be furter enhanced using foot compressor and delay pedals.

This is what I am after and I have no doubt it is achievabe, except I dont know how to wire the circuit and I want help from experienced techs who are also guitar purists.

Can you help me please. I will follow this post but if it is possible using this site I will add my contact address as [e-mail] for duplicate information.
If you do not have experience in guitar circuitry please do not post replies as I am not an electronics buff and dont want to trial and error responses possibly damaging the pickups and pots. 

[sumgai]

vince,



Hi, and to The NutzHouse!


Here's the stock OEM diagram for the venerable Jaguar, good for a starting point. In fact, you need only two small modifications to make it exactly like your wish list.





(The above schematic was "lifted" from a post by reTrEaD, back in August of 2012!)


Here's your "list of mods" in two parts:

a) Remove the wiring from the Bright switch (sometimes called the "strangle switch").  In doing so, you actually want to remove the capacitor entirely - you're going to run a wire directly from the middle terminal of the three switches down to the Vol pot.  That's it for the first part.

b) Now you want to move the Bridge wiring over to what was the Bright switch, and institute new wiring from your Mid pup to the switch that was controlling the Bridge. This new wiring will be a copy of the previous Bridge wiring.  Be aware that you don't want to copy the Neck wiring, that's because of the Rhythm/Lead selection switch on the upper bout - a whole different kettle of fish!

From these two mods, you now have a "Rhythm" section using the Neck Humbucker only, and a full complement section that has the ability to select pickups in any combination (albeit in parallel only).  (Fender calls this the Lead section.)

There is one thing that you didn't explain, so I'll be taking a WAG here.... that third pot, stationed where the output jack is supposed to be located - what's your intent there? (And I'll assume that the output jack has moved to the rim of the lower bout, something like a Telecaster.) Having that third control doesn't change anything about the actual pickup selection switching logic, just make the suggested modifications, and you're Golden!

HTH




sumgai

[vince20]

Hello Sumgai
Thank you for your kind welcome and thank you also for responding. As mentioned in my post, I am not much of an electronics buff. I can follow the wiring diagram that you posted comfortably but I cannot interpret properly your modifications. I wish I could. 
You raised a question about the lower (third) pot . I have represented three 500 K pots. The uppermost pot is for a Master Volume. The middle pot is a tone Control for the neck pickup and the lower pot is a tone control for mid/bridge pickups. I have moved the output jack outside the scratch plate to a tele style jak carved into the guitar body.

May I be so bold as to ask if you would be so kind as to represent the mods you specified by overwriting on the diagam in red/blue/green/black etc using black as the ground wire. You can represent the output jak as the lower mid/bridge tone control and show the  hot and ground wires labled "to output jak". I really would be greatful.

regards
Vince

[vince20]

Hello Sumgai
Regarding my request, I do know that these requests chew up a lot of time by you and your staff. Please be advised that should you require payment of a fee for service, then please advise.
Thanks
Vince20

[sumgai]

Sorry, Vince, but I can't be bought! Meaning, no one here charges for their volunteer efforts in making the community a better place for all guitar owners, players, modders, and other assorted interested folks. (And before I get chastised, the foregoing also applies to bass people. ) The only tangible coin-of-the-realm is patience, as in, it does take time to come up with a drawing for a requester.  Some of us are faster, some not so much. After more than 18 years in this racket, I'm pretty far gone into the latter category, you understand.

Sadly, I am not an illustrator by any means.  The last time I tried to draw a layout diagram, I was laughed at for almost  a month.   I can do a schematic, if you're OK with that, those are my stock in trade. However, now is the time to put out a call to our other contributors, hoping that someone can step in and modify the layout diagram as you wish, making clear the explanations of my suggested mods.

Anybody want to help out a newbie here?  Please?

HTH




sumgai

[vince20]

Thank you Sumgai
I thank you for your response and I trust that you will forgive my wording regarding fee for service. I was not meaning any attempt at under the table deals mearly expecting that time is worth money.
regards
Vince20

[vince20]

Thank you again.
vince20

[newey]

vince20-

I may have some time to do a diagram this weekend, unless someone can get to it before then. Per sumgai's suggestions, only the wiring to the 3 lower-bout slide switches will change, so my diagram will just show that portion, as everything else will be the same.

With one exception- that extra tone pot. Not sure how you want that to work- is it to be in circuit only when the rhythm switch is "off", so that when you use the rhythm switch, only the thumbwheel pots are operable? Or, do you want that neck tone control operable regardless of the position of the Rhythm switch (not an option I would recommend, as too many pots are in circuit at that point).

[vince20]

Thank you so much Newy. 

Regarding you question the former option appears to be the way to go i.e.  "it is to be in circuit only when the rhythm switch is "off"'

Im sure I can follow the sketch ok. But can you also please show the circuitry for the second tone pot as I have no idea how i would wire that. Remembering that the uppermost pot on the lower bout is for a Master Volume. The middle pot is a tone Control for the neck pup (humbucker) and the lower pot is a tone control for mid and bridge single coil pups. I assume that the output jak will remain as shown on the original sketch posted by sumgai? I also assume you will show where the hot wire will go to on the added pup(Humbucker).

Question: does sumgai's mods include that which ever pup is selected the master volume will work for that selection? 
 
vince20

[sumgai]

Jul 19, 2023 11:31:38 GMT -5 newey said:

.... is [the third pot on the pickguard] to be in circuit only when the rhythm switch is "off", so that when you use the rhythm switch, only the thumbwheel pots are operable?

That would be the "correct" layout, both as bog-standard from Fender, and from the OP description of his desires.

In essence, the Rhythm section (switch up) has only the Neck pup and the two thumbwheel controls in the circuit - all of the lower-bout stuff is not in play. Switching to the 'down' position (aka Lead), the opposite becomes true.

However, most players that add a third pup to either a Jazzmaster or a Jaguar tend to do a major rewiring job, such that there is no longer a Rhythm circuit.  That switch and those pots are now wired to the newly installed Middle pup. Some nice blend options there, but that 50KΩ tone control has to be replaced by a more normal value of 250K (or larger).  50K loads down the whole circuit something fierce, thus destroying any Mojo Tone that might've otherwise been available.

BTW, FWIW, the original JM and Jag had 1MΩ pots, everywhere except the thumbwheel tone. Back then, the strings were much heavier (the 'standard' set started with a 0.013 at the high E, and the 'light' set was only one thousandth less in diameter), and produced quite a bit less of the highs that the Strat and Tele could produce. Increasing the pot values was Leo's way of "catching up" to the Strat and Tele.

HTH




sumgai

[sumgai]

Jul 19, 2023 21:12:43 GMT -5 vince20 said:

Question: does sumgai's mods include that which ever pup is selected the master volume will work for that selection? 

Yes, the Volume pot for the Lead section does indeed work on any combo you can dial in with your new switching arrangement.

HTH






sumgai

[vince20]

A question arise from your comment abot the pots. That is; should i go for 500K B for volume and 500K A for tone or vice versa. 
Am I understanding A and B correctly that being A is a Tone Linear Taper and B is a log taper Volume?
If I am wrong with my interpretation can you tell me what I should look for/specify when ordering parts.
Vince20

[unreg]

Hi vince20,

You’ve got it reversed…

A is log taper (or audio taper); B is linear taper.

www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/what-does-the-a-or-b-mean-on-a-pot.20614/


Logarithmic/audio taper is generally used for volume potentiometers bc our ears receive sound in a logarithmic manner. Thus, turning an audio taper pot raises/lowers volume accordingly to the turn, for us.


Linear taper pots can be used for tone control bc the resistance is adjusted in a linear manner. See 2nd pic here:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3196/audio-taper-pots

Note: ChrisK uses different letters U, A, and B… that was in 2008… though, the first site I linked is from 2006. I’m unsure what this means; though, I’m positive that A is audio/log taper and B is linear taper.

[sumgai]

Jul 21, 2023 16:14:40 GMT -5 unreg said:

I’m unsure what this means; though, I’m positive that A is audio/log taper and B is linear taper.

This is the "new speak" definition of taper abbreviations. What Chris spoke of was from yesteryear, and is pretty much out of fashion by now.

BTW, I spoke of this (actually, I bemoaned that it was all changed without so much as even asking me politely for permission change them, back when I started with The NutzHouse.) at that time in The Nuthouse history. Sadly, I was ignored, and just like one's home, there's no going back.

Oh, and "C" is reverse-audio taper. Chris was rather obtuse at times.

HTH





sumgai

[vince20]

Hi Sumgai
I have tried to follow your instructions regarding the mods you listed for the additional pup (humbucker) to my Jag. I'm a bit (lot) skeptical that I interpreted your instructions correctly. Can you please look at my sketch per your mod instructions and advise. I have also included a sketch with no wiring. If I have messed up your instructions can you please overwrite your mods on the fresh sketch.
many thanks 
Vince20

[unreg]

vince20, please ignore my response unless a more experienced one (i.e. newey or sumgai) responds positively.


This Jaguar is amazing with its volume and tone for just the neck humb! But, I’m troubled about the lower bout’s 3rd 500K pot for mid and bridge single coil tone. This is bc my guitar obviously had a 500K tone pot for its humbuckers. But, after having a DiMarzio humbucker installed that “acts” like a single coil, the tone of that pickup became way too shrill. After installing the 250K tone pot the shrill became much less… about beautiful! So, I’m worried that his two single coils will be shrill; why not try a 250K linear taper pot for the lower bout 3rd pot? Will that possibly sound better?

[vince20]

Thanks Unreg. Hoping that Sumgai gives overview and comments on 500 k pot.

vince20

[sumgai]

Vince,


Sadly, you have indeed 'misunderstood' my remarks/instructions, as shown in your fully fleshed out diagram. So I downloaded your 'blank', and I think I can draw some straight lines on it to make things more clear for you. Hopefully I can do it in color as well.

Right now, I'm in high-production mode for our business, so I need to wait until this evening to get busy with your request.

Stay tuned.....






sumgai

[sumgai]

vince20 ,



Let's see if this looks good to you:





Do keep in mind a few things here:

a) For the sake of brevity, ground connections have been omitted. This is a usual practice, but if in doubt, simply refer to the 'original' Jaguar diagram posted earlier;

b) Tone control circuitry has similarly been omitted for clarity, ditto the referral if in doubt;

c) Wire colors are not intended to be associated with neither Fender's callouts, nor with any particular pickup. The object here is to attain clarity, not pretty. Still, for help with exact pickup wire colors, see the charts on this page:

Pickup wire colors;

d) All open control panels are viewed from the back. This means that the switches are oriented such that "up", as you are playing the axe, is Pickup Off, and 'down' is Pickup On. For the upper bout switch, 'up' is Rhythm, 'down' is Lead. Tracing the colored wires will show you which Vol and Tone controls are in play in each position.

e) Pay attention to the red wire from the Mid and Neck switches to the lower Tone control. Connecting them in this manner assures that the Mid and Bridge are isolated from each other. IOW, turning on one will not turn on the other at the same time. Trace out the wiring, and it will become clear how this is accomplished.

I trust that this attains your goal, but as usual, if you have questions, just ask.

HTH






sumgai

[vince20]

Many thanks sumgai. I will try the diagram with your notes in mind and I will ask for assistance if I need further clarity, You have been of immense help giving freely of your time. I trust you know how appreceated you aare

vince20

[vince20]

Hello Sumgai

I have finally got to the wiring job on my Jag in the method you decribed. I have had family committments and could not do it sooner.

The only missing bit I am having trouble with is the two tone control tags on the upper bout Rhythm section. I have assumed the third tag as a ground. The two tags I am referring to are the centre tag and the neck end tag, see pic below.

Can you please assist me?

vince20

[sumgai]

Vince,


The wife has (as usual) put the arm on my time for today. I'll try to get to this tonight, bot no hard-and-fast promises!

First glance: The Rhythm/Lead switch is 'upside-down', at least it's not oriented in the normal, expected fashion. If you want it that way, that's OK, it's your rig. Just thought I'd point it out, in case..... (To orient it the 'normal' way, just physically remove it and rotate it 180 degrees, then screw it back down tight. If the two green wires are too short, simply cut the cable tie, and put a new one on afterwards.)

HTH




sumgai

[vince20]

Hey Sumgai

Wives are allowed to do that.

It has been said many times, 'happy wife, happy life'

vince20

[vince20]

[vince20]

🙏

[vince20]

Hello Sumgai

I am very greatful that you have assisted me with the wiring diagram thus far, I could not have achieved the same without you.

Unfortunatly, I am not able to help myself with electronics and therefore cannot complete the remaining wiring to the upper bout tone pot, I wish I could. 

Maybe, when you are able, if you can explain why the wiring selection you will have chosen for this tone pot I can hopefully learn and experiment on future mods.
Thanks
vince20

[sumgai]

vince


As others here will confirm, I am sometimes 'not all there' in my head. I won't elaborate.

Your efforts so far, per your posted image, look to me like you've gotten some of the wires out of place. But don't tear everything out just yet, look at this updated diagram and take your time checking each wire's path from starting point to the other end. Here, I'm speaking specifically to your wiring around the Rhythm Tone control.  There is also a problem with that Rhythm/Lead switch going to the Bridge pup.....   Like I said, double-check your work as you go.  Another piece of advice might be to enlist a second pair of eyes.  On occasion, it happens that one becomes convinced that something is correct when it's not - they're too familiar with the project.  A second opinion often reveals the problem.

I've now included all of the ground connections, in orange. I've also double-checked against several other diagrams, just to be sure I've got it correct. It all should work as you asked for in your "wish list".




HTH

Oh, and apologies for the delay, This time it was my fault, not that of the Other Half.





sumgai

[vince20]

[vince20]

ever so greatful mate. really appreciate your help. The delay was not a problem.

if ever you holiday in Aussie land let me know, its so much better than Copenhagen, promise. I will show you around the Gold Coast and Bribane.

vince20

[Yogi B]

Jul 20, 2023 21:30:07 GMT -5 vince20 said:

Am I understanding A and B correctly that being A is a Tone Linear Taper and B is a log taper Volume?

Firstly apologies for not jumping in on this earlier. Now, although others have already pointed out that A = log & B = linear are the designations you can usually expect for modern components — there's an equally important point which seems to have been missed: for typical guitar wiring, in almost all circumstances, the tone pot should be a log taper.

While a notable exception is within the Jaguar/Jazzmaster rhythm circuit, where the tone pot is linear, the reason for this is because the value of that pot is only 50k — much lower than the 250k/500k/1Meg pots used elsewhere (at least in passive guitars).

If we compare a 500k linear pot to that 50k pot, the equivalent 50k value is reached by only 10% of the rotation. This means that the whole range of tones available to a 50k pot is squished down at the very end of the travel of a 500k linear pot — doing so allots the remaining 90% of the rotation to only a relatively subtle tonal change, giving the pot an almost switch like behaviour. Whereas, a logarithmic pot has a taper whereby the point of 10% resistance is shifted to the midpoint of rotation: spreading out the range where the significant tonal change occurs, allowing for much more fine-grained control.