HHH Blender Coil splits needs review please

[bobzilla]

I am building a custom flying V guitar with 3 humbuckers (1) 3 way switch, (1) master volume, (3) Push pull tone controls (more about these later) and a "Blender Pot"

I will start backwards and get to each P/U in reverse order because it may make more sense to visualize this idea.



Starting at output jack Signal wire (hot from here on) to Master Volume (middle wiper) to output of 3 way switch (Les Paul style) from #1 input of 3 way/SW to NECK TONE PUSH PULL

Side (A) posts 1 AND 3 with .022uf on post 1, and a .047 on post 3. This is to auto select what capacitor I want for humbucker in down position OR single coil in top position with their respective capacitor values for each, AND the HOT wire (BLK) from neck pick up, attached to BOTH ENDS.

Post 2 side (A) then goes to #3 wiper on the attached potentiometer and post 2 directly grounded to the top of the same pot.



SIDE (B) of push pull switch post #1 390k resistor to direct ground. post #2 to RED/WHITE of NECK P/U post #3 open.



Next to the "Blender Bridge Circuit"

Bridge

Starting at post #2 on 3 way switch to Blender potentiometer output. input (A) of blender to (HOT and .022 uf, .047uf) SAME wire setup as above for the tone circuit.



MIDDLE BRIDGE

Starting at input (B) of Blender potentiometer, to (HOT and .022uf and .047uf) SAME wire setup as above for the tone circuit.



This will allow me to "MOVE" the bridge pickup forward or back or a combination thereof. It also allows me to select single coils at .022uf or humbuckers at .047uf OR any combination of the 3.



I have done my best to describe in detail what I have thought of and have ordered the parts for.deo (I don't do this professionally)

I will include a scanned attachment of what I drew up this morning (you know 5 attempts LOL) but after working out the bugs in my drawing(s) and mind, I think this may work.

This may ALSO help someone else that wants a 3 pickup design with some flexibility in it? I have remade this in Paint so its a bit easier to follow. Please let me know your thoughts.

[newey]

Why do you show a 290K resistor in series to ground in the split-coil modes?

It seems like a lot of switching just to have different tone caps for the single coil positions. Changing the capacitor value will change the "sweep" of the tone controls as you turn them down, but either cap will sound the same with the tone full clockwise. Unless you use your tone controls constantly, fine adjusting all the time, it seems like a lot of work for little reward. When I have a design that splits a HB, I typically use a .033µf to sort of split the difference between the two "standard" values.

Also, depending upon the type of blend control you use, the middle pickup may not be fully blended out at the end of the rotation, likewise with the bridge pup in the oppposite direction.

[bobzilla]

I agree with the .033uf caps but, I wanted a bit brighter side of the coil splits you know even when you split the humbuckers, they still aren't as bright sounding as a real single coil. Here is the math on it (why I went with 290k) 500k x 290k = 145B.   145B / 790k = 183k just shy of the 250k and with the .022uf's on the coil splits, this SHOULD brighten them up just a touch without going harsh. 

It may be extra work, but the dp/dt are already built into the switch so, I thought what the hell, I may as well use them. 

the Blender pot is in fact, an ACTUAL Blender potentiometer and does go from infinate to zero ohms on both ends at opposite times and there is a 50% indentation for both on the same time at same level. 
ALL potentiometers are Bourns, because CTS don't make most of this stuff, and is not available. (I need MINI Pots, 17mm not the 22-26mm they wont fit in this guitar kit.) 

As far as the circuit goes, do you see any problems with the wireing? I did all this in my head, and drew it out then made some changes, and then drew it in paint because black ink on white writing paper looked horrible. 

Any input is greatly appreciated it's only been 30 years since I was in an electronics class, I am possitive I have forgot more than I can remember. 

[newey]

I didn't see any issues with the diagram. But a second set of eyes on it would be good, too.

does go from infinate to zero ohms on both ends at opposite times and there is a 50% indentation for both on the same time at same level.

Not really following the end of that sentence. Are both gangs at approx. 0Ω at the center detent?

[Yogi B]

Oct 12, 2023 10:38:58 GMT -5 bobzilla said:

I agree with the .033uf caps but, I wanted a bit brighter side of the coil splits you know even when you split the humbuckers, they still aren't as bright sounding as a real single coil. Here is the math on it (why I went with 290k) 500k x 290k = 145B.   145B / 790k = 183k just shy of the 250k and with the .022uf's on the coil splits, this SHOULD brighten them up just a touch without going harsh.

I've never really seen the point of adding a parallel resistor as extra loading for a split humbucker. As you note, a split humbucker (with its steel polepieces) still isn't as bright a 'proper' (AlNiCo polepiece) single coil — and, adding extra load resistance would make a split humbucker even less bright.

the Blender pot is in fact, an ACTUAL Blender potentiometer and does go from infinate to zero ohms on both ends at opposite times

Usually that's not the case, specifically about infinite ohms. As far as I know all commercially available MN-taper blender pots (the kind which give the full signal of both pickups at the centre) are one of 25k, 100k, 250k or 500k ohms, and max out at that value. This is why there are ground connections to the blend pot, to ensure the blended-out pickup is shorted (and thus disabled, even though it isn't fully disconnected from the circuit). Also, bear in mind that each half of the blend pot also acts as another parallel resistor, somewhat dulling the tone of the attached pickups.

It is possible to modify a blend pot to go 'no-load' (effectively infinite resistance) at the extremes, alternately giving full disconnection of each pickup. This allows removal of the ground connection, eliminating the associated loss of brightness. An advantage this has is a smaller pot value (100k) can be used: smaller values give a better sweep between the two pickups, but with the standard (grounded) wiring this comes with the cost of increased loading — normally you have to balance the two, but a modded no-load pot lets you focus on the first objective. However, do note that performing the no-load mod can be a little tricky.

Alternatively, you can just omit the ground connections, though this is only about half as good. In this case, at minimum blend some signal will still bleed though the blended-out pickup: so that pickup won't be fully off; and it will itself be a path to ground causing some loading upon the blended-in pickup, though considerably less than the standard wiring.

---

As you currently show it, when the pots are pulled the 290k resistors are added in series between the humbuckers' coil tap and ground; meaning all you're doing is slightly shunting one of the coils, nowhere near fully splitting the pickup. As mentioned above, I wouldn't include these resistors at all — however, if you do want to all three actions (splitting the pickup, adding the load resistor, and changing the tone capacitor) it is possible, but you'd have to go about it differently.

[bobzilla]

Fresh off the multi meter, 4.3 ohms/zero ohms/infinate ohms
                                     infinate ohms/zero ohms/4.3 ohms

zero ohms at center detent.

[bobzilla]

Thank you both for your input, I have wired up these without adding the resistor (because ebay and slow mail..lol) I think it will be easier to just add a ground wire from coil split red/white in the up position and skip the 290k for now, (it can always be added later if need be.) I am going to go on the assumption that when 2 out of 3 heads agree, then I must be wrong. This build isn't going to be fast, it's going to be great. My goal here is to make a better flying v than what Gibson sends out the door, in a color combination that they don't offer. I am going to put the arrow head Gibson truss rod cover on it, because I have it, and it should make it look cool. I will be happy to send you both pics of it when done. (march/april 24)

The idea behind this was a Peter Frampton, Jimmy Page, Ace Frehley, Judas Priest kind of thing. (I may be crazy but, I take a pill for that).

[newey]

Oct 12, 2023 19:44:52 GMT -5 bobzilla said:

I will be happy to send you both pics of it when done.

Don't just send it to both of us, post it in the Gallery for all to see!

The infinite resistance you are seeing at the ends of the pot travel may be because of the range setting on your meter, if it's not the auto-ranging type. Yogi's right, it shouldn't be infinite unless it's a no-load pot, and AFAIK no one makes such an animal, has to be DIY'd.

[bobzilla]

Yep, after reviewing my chinese multi meter, the "auto" part of the ranging, has to be selected, otherwise, it just sits in "low mode". Ordering new blender pot today, watched youtube, good thing I own a dremell tool. On the happy side of things, the first dye coat has been applied to neck and body looks great if I say so myself. Usually when I impress myself, everyone else is amazed. Be prepared to be impressed, and no, I won't be giving any update pics, (ruins the surprise).maybe i'll post my last 2 builds so you guys can see what to expect.

[newey]

Looks gorgeous! Both do, actually.

I don't know if you had seen this long-ago thread from ChrisK on Blend or Pan pots. At the time, I did some searching for a true blend pot. The upshot was that we could (at that time) identify only the Fender Jazz Bass OEM blend pot as a true blend (There are 2 different Fender part nos, for a 500K or 250K version). So, if you have another source for a true blend pot, please let us know.

[bobzilla]

Newey, what I have is a DOUBLE Blender Pot I believe its a NM? it's made by Bourns. I have ordered 2 replacement pots of these to disect one, from what I watched on youtube. I'll cut the track at one end on the "top" and cut the opposite end on the bottom wiper tracks, as seen on some videos I have watched. I am a FIRM believer, you watch enough youtube videos, and eventually you can build, paint, and wire up the Cistine chappel. LMFAO. 

I will take this apart, see what I can screw up, and maybe come up with something. 

As far as the builds go? They BOTH play just as good as they look. They both have hidden tricks in them, because I don't build a guitar that is a 1 pony show. (this is the first 3HB build for me though) I just poly'd the very first coat on the v this morning, not bragging, .... my first thought was DAAAYUM! This gonna look freaking awesome if I say so myself. And thanks to BOTH of your helps guys, this will sound just as good as she gonna look.

The Telle was inspired by the one Eric Clapton gave Kieth Richards called Macawber. I did it in gold trim, no pickguard because ya... all that BEUTIFUL ash.... ain't no way was I gonna cover it up. It has SD Hot rails coil splitted in it. (SD is the ONLY brand I use) I keep it in the key of Kieth, (Open G).

The Daphnine Blue Strat- Was a Xmas present to a 57 year old woman (no not my girlfriend) whom stated she always wanted to learn to play guitar. I built it right in front of her all summer long. Paint, carve out body, modify body (she has back problems, so I went the the very lightest wood I could get, think its polawana? Chinese) the neck wieghs more than the body WITH the hardware on it. And since it has threaded inserts on the neck, it sustains like I could never convince you of. She took this into her insurance agent for valuation, and insurance replacement value. They have it insured for $6,000.00 replacement costs. it's better than what Fender will sell you for $5,400.00 and yes, it's a licensed serialized neck. Her agent offered her $3,500.00 on the spot for it if she wanted to part with it.  It has the 7 way mod built into it. and yes they are SD pickups. she like the "Rustic" look of wood in her apt, so I didn't grain fill this, you can see the grain and even feel the wood right through the finish. Anyway she litterally cried when she found out that after watching me build this all summer long, it was her X-mas gift. Was TOTALLY worth it.

i have the V currently working on, and then 3 more after that, then I am done (I think) Man don't need more than 6 guitars, he only has 2 hands.....and 4 amplifiers

[sumgai]

Oct 14, 2023 9:03:17 GMT -5 bobzilla said:

Man don't need more than 6 guitars

As gumbo will be the first to tell you, more than six guitars is an addiction only if you're trying to quit!

then I am done (I think)

You might want to have a little chat with kitwn about that goal. Just saying.....





sumgai

[kitwn]

Oct 14, 2023 9:51:51 GMT -5 sumgai said:

Oct 14, 2023 9:03:17 GMT -5 bobzilla said:

Man don't need more than 6 guitars

As gumbo will be the first to tell you, more than six guitars is an addiction only if you're trying to quit!

then I am done (I think)

You might want to have a little chat with kitwn about that goal. Just saying.....





sumgai

I resemble that remark!

Actually I'm currently trying to decide whether to build another guitar or not. I need to spend more time playing the ones I already have in an attempt to reach my goal of becoming an 'average' guitar player. And I'm supposed to have at least one clock finished for an exhibition in March. There are only 168 hours in a week and 4000 weeks in a lifetime, so you can't do everything.

But I don't own a single-coil instrument and I keep tinkering with the idea of combining all my interests in one project which would mean making my own pickups from scratch and using solid-state, digitally controlled potentiometers to drive active filters to make a programmable guitar with....... Sorry, got carried away.

bobzilla,

Very impressed by the two previous builds, keep up the good work! One of my this-year-next-year-sometime-never projects is a 5 string Telecaster in open-G tuning specifically for playing Rolling Stones songs, complete with home-made 5-pole pickups. That would be a lot of fun.

Kit

[newey]

Oct 17, 2023 18:38:00 GMT -5 kitwn said:

I keep tinkering with the idea of combining all my interests in one project which would mean making my own pickups from scratch and using solid-state, digitally controlled potentiometers to drive active filters to make a programmable guitar with....... Sorry, got carried away.

No, you're just Nutz. As are we all.

[bobzilla]

That's all gold finger is for. I thought about taking off the lower E, but, I thought that just looks plain stupid. So I keep it on and use my thumb to deaden the sound. I have also got a brass slide, sounds great on it, but my name aint Justin Johnson-so don't expect much from me on that. No I don't own nor do I want to make, a 3 stringed shovel.

Damnit Kit, you just added ANOTHER guitar project on me, because I don't own an all single coil guitar either. **** Man don't need more than 7 guitars, he only has 2 hands..... and 4 amplifiers. 

[bobzilla]

You Were right.......
.then I am done (I think)



You might want to have a little chat with kitwn about that goal. Just saying.....











sumgai

[bobzilla]

Also I would like to add just 1 more thing. For those that build, or would like to build. take the time to build the very best, with the very best parts available, take your time, (if sooner than 4 months, you're doing it to fast). make sure it's 100% (case and all) and that you REALLY want it. Then find some kid someplace that is starting out wants to learn how to play, or has one and it's a crapbag, (we all had those when we started) and give it away with no "strings attached /expectations" You will be AMAZED at the feeling you get when you see someones eyes light up, realizing that you just gave them the best guitar they could NEVER buy. 

If I died tonight, that would be my wish for all of you that take time to make guitars wheather they are parts casters, orpartial builds, or full on builds. Get in there, learn how to do a great job, spend the money, ya gonna take $900-1200 dollars, and 4-6 months of your time. Then go to your local High school, find out who plays, and who could REALLY use a GREAT guitar. I gave that Daphnine blue away, with matching case, with matching stand (ya, go try to find one of those-total pain in the butt). Distortion pedal, fender 20 watt practice amp, cables, and custom Strap with Schaller straplocks (only brand I use). Does your heart good to watch someone cry over something they could NEVER get themselves.