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Post by bam on May 12, 2005 3:08:09 GMT -5
These things I am really blind .. As the subjet says, what is a variax ? What I've known it is a type of electric guitar made by Line 6.. Can anyone add something to it ?
thx.
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 12, 2005 4:10:49 GMT -5
the variax is to the guitar what a line 6 amp modeler is to an amp. it simulates the sound of various guitars via super-duper high-tech digital technology. you can select various single coil and humbucker models on the "electric" and various acoustic models on the "acoustic." (both are really "electronic" guitars.) i believe there's also a range of effects and amps to chose from. they don't use regular magnetic pickups either. it basically reprents all that i hate about line 6 and i don't know why people buy the stuff. i guess some people think it's taking the guitar into the digital age. some things just don't need digital technology. you don't see yo-yo ma going out to buy an electronic cello that can simulate several classic cellos from different makers over the centuries. only in the guitar world. don't get me wrong, i'm not against digital technology, but there are some places where it should just bud out.
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R
Meter Reader 1st Class
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Post by R on May 12, 2005 8:43:02 GMT -5
preach on guy ;D
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Post by StratLover on May 12, 2005 9:31:17 GMT -5
"GuyaGuy" is absolutely right in his description of the Variaxe(tm). There are actually 5 different models one being the 700 Acoustic(tm) which IS a true acoustic guitar with built in modeling and a 700Bass(tm) as well. The digital technology that is represented here is mainly to open up new avenues to those of us "Nuts" whom choose to create a broader range of sound to a particular piece of mucic with the least amount of trial and error. The dynamic range of all five models is truly phenominal and accurate. Don't get me wrong here, I have a collection of Stratocaster's(tm), Explorer's(tm) and Telecasters(tm). But I know at some point or another that we ALL have wished we could transform our 69 Strat(tm) into a 58 Les Paul(tm) at the flick of a switch when we want to, in the beginning middle or end of a piece of music. I write and record, use various effects through trial and error and at times wished for something more and better than what I have, "Technology Based." Lets just face it, the want and need is out there and people are eating them up at an almost faster rate than any product line out there. According to "Guitar World Magazine;" "because of the skyrocketing prices of Mahogany and other fine hardwoods, automated workmanship and re-issue of dated instruments by the BIG THREE, the search for vintage guitars is now at it's APEX." This MIGHT be a reason people ARE buying this product. As far as the whole Line-6 product base goes the technology is un-real and built to last with the BEST of parts. I myself support technology and anyone whom says technology should not interfere on the guitar world should step back and look at their updated pickups, machine heads and how about strings for instance technology is there as well. Lets now move on to our pedal boards. How many of us use Stomp Boxes...........Need I say more? I understand there are some of us that play through a particular amp model and a particular guitar model as well, but to HATE anything that has to do with technology in the realm of guitar's or amplification is hating progress in our search for perfection. I am not the best guitarist on the planet, but Line-6(tm) amplification has opened up a whole new area in the guitar universe for me. The amp modeling is also true and correct with built in effects, MIDI features and foot controller all in one nice tidy package. The ability to create a particular sound and save it, is a feature that in my opinion is worth the amplifier's weight in gold alone. One can have your own creation of sound, as one see's and hears it. More and more people are turning to this technology for just this reason. My Marshall(tm) and Fender(tm) amplifiers are hardly collecting any dust either I might say. It ALL depends on the sound............. PERIOD.
"The more something changes the more it stays the same."
I guess what I truly want to say is, "take your favorite guitar to your local Line-6(tm) dealer and play through one of their amplifiers for yourself".....WOW. "Then plug in a Variaxe(tm) to a Line-6(tm) amplifier and see the possibilities you have right at your fingertips and at your feet with the specialized foot controller." You might be surprised.
Line-6(tm) is not for all of us and due respect should be given to those of us that use the Line-6(tm) product line.
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 12, 2005 15:48:48 GMT -5
due respect is given, StratLover. i'm no guitar-nazi. ;D however... to me, the amp/guitar combination that a musician chooses is an integral part of his sound--and one which is limiting, yes, but those limitations are specifically chosen by the musician for their tonal properties. what line 6 offers is a big grab bag. there may be a guitarist out there who wished he could switch from a les paul/marshall stack to a ricky/AC-30 at the flick of a switch, but i feel that it's an almost ridiculous amount of switching possibilities to get bogged down by. then again, i've also never understood why people want to get a les paul sound out of a strat. it's a strat! i like getting a strat sound out of it! maybe i'm just one of those people you describe as "hating progress in our search for perfection," because something i actually LOVE about guitars and amps is the IMPERFECTION: the limitations of a specific model guitar, a little hum from the tube amp, the clang of the reverb tank, the finger-squeak when changing positions. now, don't think i'm an anti-tech traditionalist who believes in keeping things the way they are. i have plenty of digital effects and love the fact that i can tempo-tap on my boss dd-20. and digital recording does so much for opening doors. but in my experience, amp and guitar modelling does nothing but DIGITALLY SIMULATE actual sounds--and some times not that well. (p.s. StratLover, all of this of course written with due respect for yr opinion, otherwise i wouldn't have bothered replying! )
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Post by StratLover on May 12, 2005 16:30:19 GMT -5
All due respect to you as well !
I only happen to own Line-6 (tm) amplifiers, not the guitars and I as well think the traditional sound of the guitar is an integral part of ones sound.
A Variaxe(tm) is made for those whom either can't live without it or truly feel that need for a myriad of guitars in one, as their big bang for the buck.
It's not for me, as I am partial to vintage Strat's(tm) and Explorer's(tm)
I hope we can agree on that. ;D
PEACE OUT BRO'
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dinis64
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by dinis64 on May 12, 2005 21:23:14 GMT -5
I'm into the vintage vibe, and personally, I don't like processors. And I don't "think" that will change, but sometimes I wonder if the vintage thing is like a fad that will swing back towards the high tech/ more modern sound again sometime - maybe 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, whatever.
I mean, I look back at the 80's (excuse me, I had to vomit) and I don't see many people going for that tone now, but it could come back full force, like the 70's dress fashion. And by the way, I don't try to dress like I did back then, but you should see the size of my bow tie in a phototgraph when I was in junior high.
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Post by wolf on May 12, 2005 22:31:48 GMT -5
In a way I'm glad someone started this topic. I have a feeling that the digital age eventually will totally overwhelm the wire coil magnetic pickup type guitar and message boards like this, guitarnuts drawings, all the circuit diagrams we have drawn might become obsolete. Personally, I'd rather not have the change take place but that's progress. Then again, maybe the demise of the traditional electric guitar may have been greatly exaggerated. Remember these? Will Variax be next?
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Post by StratLover on May 12, 2005 22:55:22 GMT -5
A very good possibility "wolf" and yes I do remember those all to well. An old friend of mine that I used to jam with had one and all he ever did was rave. I was so satisfied with my old beat up Strat(tm) that I really do think it made HIM jealous. I know that was his intention at the time too. When I bought my first brand new guitar, a Gibson Explorer(tm), way, way, back when, all he could do was drool all over himself and ask habitually-----can I play it, can I play it, can I play it. Each time he asked I said NO ! Was I being cruel? This my be a shock to you as well, a silver one sold on eBay about 2 weeks ago for almost $2000.00. WHY? WHY? WHY?.......................
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Post by RandomHero on May 13, 2005 1:07:44 GMT -5
Ooo, ooo, gotta throw my two cents in!
I'm personally madly in love with my V-Amp 2. Now, the funny thing about that is, not only is a V-Amp the lowest of the low on the digital modeling ladder, but before trying it at the store, I couldn't be seperated from my dream of a tube fullstack!
My V-Amp 2 has allowed me to arrange and compose entire songs using a wide variety of sounds per any given song. With the EQing on it, and a computer-driven drop-octave effect, I can even make a very convincing bass out of my 7-string.
However, I can certainly see the view of anyone who was in a band who had a defined and beloved sound that was produced by the real deal! If I were in a band where I wanted to use an Engl Savage Beast, preceded by a terribly long chain of effects pedals and stop boxes, and -that was my sound,- then I'd say to heck with the modeling stuff and go for the gold.
HOWEVER. Let's say for instance that we're not being nice, and we say that (tone still being subjective,) your average afficiando would tell you that the V-Amp 2's models aren't -half- accurate or as pleasant as the actual amps. Then, let's total up the cost of all 32 high-end vintage and modern amps, all the digital effects, and the other bells and whistles it comes with (there are a LOT of them,) and cut it in half. The amps alone would cash in a tens of thousands more than the mere $99 you can pick up a V-Amp for! I went into a store with that cash in my pocket looking for a single delay pedal!
Now, if you -were- being nice, you'd say that put through a decent amp or sound system, the V-Amp's sound is still not half bad, and there are a lot of options, making it this single musician's favorite toy. ;D
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Post by StratLover on May 13, 2005 6:05:41 GMT -5
I have another tid-bit to throw in here. In my opinion, the digital age for guitars will come and go but people will get something out of it. We always do. I really don't feel that a traditional coil pup guitar will be replaced by anything else. I think we all know the old quote: "If it aint broke don't fix it" ;D As far as amplification goes, there is a whole new story out there that is big and it is being written as we live and breathe GUITARS each new day. There are a lot of us that have embraced modeling technology, take me for instance. I was skeptical to say the least as I have Marshall(tm) and Fender(tm) sitting right next to me. But I also have digital equipment as well. I personally dont think I could continue recording and performing if it were not for digital amplification. It has'nt made me lazy, as some might think, it has made me realize that there is a whole new universe to be explored and stored via one handy dandy foot switch, and................Bingo, I have created something totally out of the ordinary.
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 13, 2005 15:29:19 GMT -5
I really don't feel that a traditional coil pup guitar will be replaced by anything else. I think we all know the old quote: "If it aint broke don't fix it" ;D that pretty much sums it up because once a coil pup is replaced, it's no longer an electric guitar as we know it. like a guitar-synth or a guit-organ or any other hi-tech experiment, it becomes something else by definition. i've never played a variax and i don't want to...however, i have a feeling that i would probably approach it the way i did my first effects box, a digital multi-fx unit from zoom. with it, i was able to find out how effects sound, what i wanted/needed, how to combine them, etc. i could then move on to the REAL THING, which is to say stomp boxes (yes, some digital!), real spring reverb, etc. in the same way variax may give someone an overview of guitar sounds available but at some point it should become neccessary to get the real deal.
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Post by JohnH on May 13, 2005 17:25:02 GMT -5
Heres my view (and I'm well qualified here, 'cos Ive never tried either a digital guitar or a digital amp!)
I think that a digital amp or processor after the guitar could be a fine thing. After all, any amp is just a way of processing the rather feeble guitar output signal and turn it into something we can rock to. We dont expect it to be an exact facsimile of it and enjoy the variations of different effects. If digital tech gives us more options and better value, then thats cool. But its all based (at least remotely) on our original guitar signal.
However, I believe I would react against a digital guitar. Its like it is replacing my music with something else. The guitar is too personal. The interaction of strings, wood, magnets and fingers as an extension of the player would seem lost by the intervention of a computer. Sure it might sound like Clapton on a good day, but Id feel disconnected from it.
Now Ill duck for cover!
John
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Post by Trey on May 13, 2005 19:23:17 GMT -5
Hmm..seems there are some Luddites amongst us It think the digital guitars have their place in the world. If I were a studio guitarist or played in a band that required huge variances in tone, I would definatly get a Variax or something like it. Who wants to tote around 10 diffrent guitars and amps all the time? Never the less, I own neither digital amps nor digital guitars, because I don't need the versatility. I would rather have good tone at this point in time, or maybe I'm a Luddite too... Do y'all think the same about Gibson's smart guitar or whatever itt's called? www.gibsondigital.com/
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 14, 2005 2:35:23 GMT -5
message from a luddite:
here is my main objection to the digital guitar: it SIMULATES a guitar, which doesn't need to be simulated. they're cheap and relatively easy to make, at least when mass-produced. even the best model/simulation will just hint at the real deal. companies try to convince you that it makes things easier for you because you don't have to carry around a truckload of guitars w/ you. well, guess what, you never did. one's enough. maybe a backup.
here is my main objection to the digital amplifier: it's not an amplifier. it's a PA unit with a digital processor which emulates an array of amp sounds. and that's why it will never ever sound like what it's trying to simulate.* it doesn't even have amplifier speakers, but rather PA speakers.
which leads me to my next point...
contemporary ears are so accustomed to hearing "perfect" sounds that have been so compressed, processed, and digitally edited that the sound of an actual guitar played through an actual amplifier is becoming a rarity. bands routinely play live to backing tracks of themselves. even at gigs in small venues where a small 50 watt combo amp is plenty loud, everything is miked run thru a PA system. and THAT is the sound that you may get from a digital amp/guitar--if you're lucky. well, i'm sorry, but the sound projected out of an amplifier has a physical presenece which simply cannot be replicated, neither thru a PA nor thru digital technology. to me, it's like painting, which, according to all indications and predictions, was on its way out, replaced by more modern media like photography and video. yet many artists just found that there was a physical property of painiting that does not exist in other media and so painting goes on. so it is with the electric guitar, which, after the introduction of guitarorgans, guitarsynths, electronic keyboards, midi, and digital guitars, still remains the best-selling instrument in the history of mankind and THE symbol of popular music.
*i've found simulations like this actually sound more convincing recorded directly.
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Post by jdtogo on May 14, 2005 5:44:46 GMT -5
ok I feel like i'm jumping in at the end ...... after reading all the post on this I was thinking. OK some like it some not but the one thing for sure is if variax makes you want to play more ...well its the right thing to have (for that person ) . will the old sounds die off, NO !let the new things run and the long run its good for all of us . play all you can
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Post by StratLover on May 14, 2005 14:21:16 GMT -5
One thing to remember about Digital Amplification---There is always a clean and clear channel that gives you the true sound of the transistors used in the guts of the amplifier just as it is with a vaccume tube amp.
Using a michrophone is a time tried true and excellent process.
I have found that being able to directly connect from digital amp to PA linerally gives a much cleaner sound with less possibilities for feedback created through a michrophone, and this is where digital amplification might have an edge on traditional Tube amps, FOR CERTAIN APPLICATIONS.
Such as playing in my Church Praise and Worship Band. The quieter the better in this case.
The Line-6(tm) amps I currently use are rated at 200 and 250 watts stereo and they sound clean from a practice volume with the wifey here ;D all the way to full-out stage configuration.
Needless to say I run Marshall(tm) as well as Fender(tm) amplification and in a lot of situations the traditional TUBE AMP has no substitute what-so-ever! We all have a responsibility as "Nut's" to encourage the growth process of ANYTHING GUITAR.
Having said that, yes transistor amplification has been around as long as TRANSISTORS have and by some, it was embraced with praises and accolades.
There are those of us however that will NEVER and I mean NEVER trade our traditional VACCUME TUBES for a WALL OF DIGITAL AND TRANSISTOR ANYTHING! ! ! I will use a quote from a fellow Nut to emphasize the impact of the ELECTRIC GUITAR on our PLANET folks.
--- "so it is with the electric guitar, which, after the introduction of guitarorgans, guitarsynths, electronic keyboards, midi, and digital guitars, still remains the best-selling instrument in the history of mankind and THE symbol of popular music."---
Need I say MORE.
Lets ALL allow the phase of the digital age to continue as we can not stop the timeline of technology or LIFE in general. This is good for some and to others it should not even matter, as we all know that there is truly NO substitute for COIL PICKUPS and VACCUME TUBES.
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Post by bam on May 15, 2005 21:31:53 GMT -5
.. well, and think I should add that in software terms, "software emulation" can't go as good as "hardware acceleration". :lol: Tubes has its own personal space, and the same goes for SS/emu. In the end, the "original" one will sound "original". Thx for everyone, although the replies is really offtopic (I only asked "what is a Variax" ) but whatever anyone's ops are, I think we can conclude that these super-high-tech-digital emulators definitely worth playing (aka fun to have). .. but I also think that everyone would agree if I say that we, guitarists, likes, no, not likes, but loves our very own personal "holy-grail" tone and not artists/gears imitation.
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Post by ChrisK on May 17, 2005 19:25:14 GMT -5
The Variax is everything to some and nothing to others. It's just something new. Since it is new, it is young and incomplete, with far to go (and yet has come so far). While there are still some (compulsive) followers of vinyl (records), most have accepted digital CD/DVDs (cuz vinyl and tape sucketh mightily in frequency response and durability).
Don't get me wrong, I love my Mesa Mark IV TUBE amp and the many classic (i.e. passive magnetic pickup) guitars that I have. But, I also like my Cyber Deluxe and GDEC (the band in yer car trunk for those that travel on business).
Vacuum tubes as a means for realizing amplification are generally inefficient, failure-prone, and tone-crappy (the reason that we like them). While it is not possible (or desirable for those of us with "shoes of wood") to improve tube amps to the point of accurate signal amplification, digital means will achieve said accuracy and thus will be able to imitate the forever inaccurate, accurately, eventually.
Hardware is "concrete", software is "Velcro". Bits' is it going forward.
Before we sling sabots at all means digital, we should admit that it ain't gonna evaporate anytime soon. (Sabots, or shoes, were flung into the gears of the early factory machines by the Luddites in hope fond of stopping all things new - hence the origination of "sabotage".)
There are three stages of all new truth:
First it is ridiculed,
Second it is violently opposed and,
Third it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Post by bam on May 18, 2005 0:31:56 GMT -5
.. If we're slinging sabot to everything means digital, then even the legendary TS808 (it's solidstate, right?) would be crushed. Even our beloved GN, too :lol:.
And I'm not saying that our "holy grail" have to be vintage; It's just rather ridiculous to imitate everything in a gig.
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 18, 2005 2:45:08 GMT -5
first, let me again sing the praise of digital tech. i love: my boss DD-20, digital recording, the tonal possibilities opened up by electronica, CDs, and GN2! so, i'm no reactionary or even a traditionalist when it comes to binary music tech. however, to continue with Chris K's luddite analogy, allow me to point out that their purpose for attacking machinery was their belief that the industrial revolution would reduce wages and cause unemployment, which, however reactionary their demonstrations were, proved to be true. a new technology changes social structures. and with every new technology that is introduced, certain paths are taken to develop it and bring it into already existing areas. but, as marshall mcluhan says, a new medium never replaces an old one, it just forces it into a different role. TV didn't replace film, film didn't replace the theater or the novel, and the electric guitar didn't replace the acoustic. nor will the electronic/digital guitar (variax, etc) replace the electric. nor will, as Chris K point out, a digital amp replace a tube amp, even if the latter is "inefficient, failure-prone, and tone-crappy," i.e. "the reason that we like them." i think that's a point we can all agree on. my main objection (and reason for throwing shoes --thanks for the historical/linguistic tidbit, Chris!), is that i believe that certain technologies are introduced into areas where they're not only NOT needed but REDUNDANT. if you believe the brochures from roland in the 70s/80s, every good guitarist NEEDS a guitar synth. synths were THE new technology in music at the time and were matter-of-factly introduced into the guitar world. well, i'm sure someone out there still plays one but for the most part guitar synths are now a dated sign of those times. the same is true for the digital guitar, only it's a post-modern sign of our times. why post modern? because it emulates exactly what it is: a guitar. apparently the electronica musician the aphex twin plays can't play any instruments. he just programs and edits everything on the computer. on one of his tracks there is a piano. however, he devised a contraption that is MIDI-controlled to do the physical piano-playing. ridiculous? yes. more ridiculous than playing a guitar that emulates...a guitar? no. well, not to me, anyway.
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Post by bam on May 18, 2005 9:37:19 GMT -5
I dunno whether this is right or wrong, but I think somehow there is a bit of misunderstanding here;
I, too, love my Korg ax100g, Boss SD-1 and Cubase SX. And it's not ridiculous if you're playing a guitar that emulates a guitar (I said, it deftly worth playing aka. fun to have)
What I mean "ridiculous" is when one play 10 songs with 10 different guitar emulations; Somehow IMHO it's just not "his tone".
To put it simple, one don't need a LP to play "Still Got The Blues" or a JEM to play "Bad Horsie". He can play those songs on his personal tastes/guitar selection no matter whatever guitar the original artist used.
..As the legendary guitarist Joe Satriani said, "The goal is pure expression".
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Post by StratLover on May 18, 2005 15:11:29 GMT -5
"TRUE EXPRESSION"-----Now there's the infinite catch phrase by which ALL guitarists live, breathe, eat and sleep and relive continually.
Just like every guitar sounds a little different, and opinions are sure to differ in the same way in this unperfect World. Some things will never change no matter what happens in any part of the music industry.
"The development of new technology"
Some will embrace it, while some will be repulsed by it. I am sure glad we all have a freedom to do just that and I myself would have it no other way. Because when you boil it all down, the remainder left is "GUITAR NUTS", pure and simple.
As opinionated as we all are, the truth of individuality screams in each and every one of us.
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Post by ChrisK on May 18, 2005 17:28:49 GMT -5
Although the Variax does emulate exactly what it is (a guitar), its salient point is that it emulates (nearly) exactly what it isn't: specific guitars. For a cover band, it's the bee's knees. Guitar synths evaporated primarily because they had the wrong user interface for a synth (i.e. a keyboard), and they generally sucked. I find it interesting that while we flail our arms about all things non tubular or non vintage, with exceptions few we strive mightly to change/modify/distort such things pristine in the search for our tone, using full doses of heresy (transistors and bits). Apparently, guitars and tube amps, used as [originally] designed, sucketh mightily to most. It's difficult to ascertain which technologies are of lasting value (self-evidency) and which are the latest Bright Shiny Objects. I mean, look at cell phones. We wouldn't need them (like lawyers) if we hadn't had them in the first place. In reality, the tone isn't in our gear, or in our fingers, but just in our minds. Perception is reality, and reality, only perception. ;D A message redundant from the Department of Redundancy Department. And another thing........ ohhhh look, shiny!!!!
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Post by bam on May 19, 2005 0:31:11 GMT -5
I think that's the point.
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 19, 2005 1:38:43 GMT -5
well, i see i'm not going to convince anyone to get rid of their variax on ebay so i can snatch it up for cheap... but, seriously, folks, i'll end my crusade against digital guitars before everyone ends up hating me or gets sick of my ranting. everybody obviously has the freedom to play what he wants with the gear he wants. i'm sure some would come see my pedalboard and ridicule my usage of the boss dd-20 (yes, it does digitally emulate analog delays, thank you very much), a transistor OD pedal even though i have an OD channel on my tube amp, and a boss digital phaser. both of the digital pedals mentioned offer me possibilities that aren't possible w/ analog equivalents--tap tempo on both, unidirectional (rise/fall) phasing, 23 seconds of "tape" delay, etc. apparently you guys have found that a variax offers similar possibilities for your purposes. i guess what it boils down to is: what technology will last? this, of course sharing the answer with: what technology do we find useful? and ultimately all of our gear will one day seem as outdated as the clavichord. with that, i'll officially stop throwing shoes. besides, you can't argue with this: btw, bam, i wasn't quoting you about what's "ridiculous" but sharing my own view of what's ridiculous.
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Post by bam on May 19, 2005 9:04:15 GMT -5
So that should means :oops: and sorry
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Post by StratLover on May 19, 2005 13:43:22 GMT -5
Hey "GuyaGuy" no-one will hate you for any opinion that you have or hold any grudges against you for trying to talk them out of their "Variaxe"(tm). ;D We are all on the same quest for our own specific "Tone of perfection", in our own minds even though it is not mental, or is it? Hmmm One more thing.........."If the shoe is wood, throw it." I think we need to keep more threads like this alive as we will be sending out great information as well as good strong opinions to others. These two things are just positivity and creativity personifide. Newer "Nuts" need, no require this to grow into their own. We have a huge influence and impact on a lot of readers. Lets keep up the GOOD WORK FELLAS!
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Post by bam on May 19, 2005 19:53:11 GMT -5
.. and it means LONG LIVE Nuts™ !!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by StratLover on May 19, 2005 23:42:49 GMT -5
I will second THAT right now. Anyone for a third? Aw come on don be a-skeert uh sasoe. L.O.L.
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