15" speaker for guitar

[lpdeluxe]

Here's the deal: I have acquired a Fender4 Band-Master VM and have been hooking it up to a Hartke 115TP for playing my 335 (and now, my new-to-me Samick L5CES copy) through. Obviously, this is not an ideal cab for guitar.

I am pondering buying one of Weber's cabinets and installing a speaker. Any recommendations will be welcomed.

[D2o]

15" ... that's a big speaker!

The first thing that came to mind was a 15" Peavey Blue Marvel or Black Widow (note - I think there is both a guitar and a bass variety), if you can find one ...

Anyway, just a suggestion ... and you're practically in Peavey's back yard, so you may come across them easily there.

[lpdeluxe]

May 13, 2009 12:13:39 GMT -5 D2o said:

15" ... that's a big speaker!

I know...but I already have 1-10, 2-10, a couple of 1-12, and 2-12 amps, and I thought a little variety might spice up my life, particularly since I have this big jazz box that's just dying for an appropriate outlet.

[cynical1]

You could install a couple of piezos into the 15" cabinet.

Read JohnH's dissertation on the cabinet he built using them.

You can find it here under Speakercab for electric and acoustic

While the 15" cabinet can be a bit overwhelming at times, the piezos will bring the highs back in. With the detail in JohnH's post you can also employ controls on the amount of piezo high end against the 15" driver.

Depending in your style and the music you play, the 15" cabinet for a guitar can be quite impressive.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[D2o]

Depending in your style and the music you play, the 15" cabinet for a guitar can be quite impressive.

I agree. One of my amps is a Peavey Delta Blues tube amp with a 15" Blue Marvel speaker.

I used to have only a Washburn Bad Dog BD25R, a 25W solid state practice amp with an 8" speaker and reverb. Truth be told, I actually kind of like that little Bad Dog for playing around with pedals and stuff ...

However, when comparing the big Delta Blues amp to it, I would almost* say - for me - regardless of my style and the music I play, the 15" cabinet for a guitar can be quite impressive.

* and if it was someone else playing my guitar, I wouldn't even need to qualify that.

[lpdeluxe]

May 13, 2009 14:11:23 GMT -5 cynical1 said:

You could install a couple of piezos into the 15" cabinet.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

Uh, no, that's not what I have in mind at all. I want a mellow jazzbo speaker, not some squawky hisser.

[cynical1]

May 13, 2009 16:56:01 GMT -5 lpdeluxe said:

May 13, 2009 14:11:23 GMT -5 cynical1 said:

You could install a couple of piezos into the 15" cabinet.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

Uh, no, that's not what I have in mind at all. I want a mellow jazzbo speaker, not some squawky hisser.

Well, you could drop in a HF horn driver. Either way, you'll want to throw a pot in there to ramp it down as needed.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[lpdeluxe]

I hope I didn't sound too dismissive, cynical1. But I know there's a 15 out there that doesn't need crutches and additional pieces and all the things I want to avoid.

I don't really think a lack of highs is necessarily characteristic of a 15, but I'm looking for a round bottom. I can get all the highs I want out of my technique. Not being a kid, my hearing rolls off at 15KHz, and I don't want to be driving spikes into the audience's ears inadvertently.

Surely there's a speaker out there that's not tubby, has some life to it, and doesn't weigh forty-eleventy pounds, and that's the one I'm looking for.

As it stands, using the Hartke box, I get pretty close to what I want, but you know guitar players -- the grass is always more toneful somewhere else.

[newey]

Lots of surf players swear by a 15" cab for that drenched-in-reverb stuff. JBLs seem to be favored among that set.

[sumgai]

Did I hear (read) the magic word? ;D


lpf3,

Yes, the JBL D130F is the speaker that matches your specifications. You can probably get away with a K130, but that's a not-poor substitution, the key word being substitution.

Anything else is a crap-shoot. Yeah, there are lots of good speakers around, and some of them are very tone/price effective, but when all is said and done, tone trumps dollars, and a True JBL D130F (even one reconed by an experienced reconer) will stand out so obviously over and above all others......

Closed back, open back, tone-ring or plain baffle, it doesn't matter what kind of cabinet the speaker is in, it always comes down to "The Tone". I can get close with my Ampeg 410HLF, but compared to a Showman cabinet, one can still tell the difference. Not quite "night and day", but I think most players could pass the blindfold test, at least most of the time.

Other than that, most folks are happy with Weber speakers.

Side notes:
A JBL D140F is not the same thing. For a six-string axe, it will be OK for the lowest octave, but it starts losing out to the D130F part way up the neck. You mention that you can get all the trebles you desire with your finger technique, so I can't say that the D140F is exactly what you don't want - perhaps it would work just fine for you, but that'd be just a bit out of the ordinary. Depends on your wallet.....

Little known factoid: Both of these speakers developed out of the JBL D123, orignally designed for use in movie theaters. If you've got a good reconer handy (you'll know he's good by how much your wallet whimpers as you peruse his price list), he (or she) can take a D123 frame and recone it with the proper parts to make a D130F. Price-wise, it's a wash as to which would be a better deal, that's up to you to decide. I mention this only because D123 frames (and whole, working speakers!!) sometimes show up on eBay or craigslist. If the asking price is cheap, then you should consider this route.

HTH





sumgai

[D2o]

That does sound like a very cool speaker.

I googled it and found some mention of the "Weber California Series" as a modern equivalent ... any thoughts?

... funny that newey also mentioned "surf guitar" ...

By the way, I am not endorsing, nor do I have any knowledge about, either of the links above - they're just for information.

[lpdeluxe]

Thank you, sumgai, but if I'm not mistaken, there are no new D130Fs about. I found exactly one on eBay, for ca. $240. To repeat D2o's question, is there a Weber equivalent?

[D2o]

LP,

FYI - I didn't realize that the Weber site hides the California speakers.

Under "Products", you have to select "Weber Speakers", and then a new window pops up and you will find them in the menu to the left as part of the "High Power Series".

Clicking on it expands the menu, and if you scroll down you'll find a 15" section, and a selection for "California 15", in either AlNiCo ($235) or ceramic ($115).

[lpdeluxe]

Many thanks. That alnico model looks like what I want. I'll be driving it with a 40w tube amp, so that may be a real good match. ;D

[D2o]

May 14, 2009 11:08:33 GMT -5 lpdeluxe said:

Many thanks. That alnico model looks like what I want. I'll be driving it with a 40w tube amp, so that may be a real good match. ;D

You're welcome.

But I'm not endorsing it - I just read about it and am pointing you to the source ... I'd still wait for the big gai's opinion before pulling out your credit card.

[lpdeluxe]

Well, this is a sort-of longer term project (first I have to get a Bigsby for my SG) so sooner or later he'll weigh in. I'm still feeling my way around -- and, if I don't get a new cab, I'll still have the Hartke (and the tweed Blues Jr, and the Jazzmaster Ultralight, and the...).

I appreciate the help. I had checked out Weber's web site before, and knew from various forums that his speakers are generally in good repute, but somehow I had skipped over the "high-powered" speakers, thinking they would compress overmuch.

[sumgai]

gais,

Chris at BigKahunaBikes is generally suspected to know his butt from a hole in the wall, so if he says that it sounds close enough for surfing work, then it probably does. ;D

I have to admit that it will take some mighty fine ears to discern any difference in tone between the two magnet structures, at most volume levels. Chris's unit for sale at $115 is just about MSRP, so he's not really giving such a good deal. (I'm more than certain that he's not selling an Alnico magnet unit for less than half the $240 MSRP. ) It'll be up to you as to whether or not your ears demand/wallet can withstand the higher-priced spread.

HTH



sumgai

[newey]

lpf3-

If it's a longer-term project, you can shop around for plenty of opinions. But, ultimately, one man's ears, etc. . .

Eminence claims that their Commonwealth 15" sounds similar to the JBL 130s.

Of course, that's what they claim, I haven't heard 'em, and it's probably been 15 years since I heard (live) someone playing through a JBL-equipped cab. Caveat Emptor, naturally.

I haven't checked the return policies of the major retailers on guitar speakers, as far as whether they'll accept returns if the speakers have been mounted and used. I expect that would be verboten. But if you could find a place that would let you try them in your cab, that would be the best option.

[lpdeluxe]

Thank you both: I now feel like I'm headed in the right direction.

The caveat regarding cost is not terribly important, since if I find what I want I'll gladly pay the price (I'm retired, my kids are through college and married, just myself to please) even though it may take a couple of extra months to go for the high priced spread.

Any opinions on alnico vs ceramic magnets? I realize I'm getting into slippery ground here, but, hell, I've got nothing but time.

[ChrisK]

Check out Allen Amps.

He sells Eminence speakers, knows a great deal about amps/speakers, and is willing to answer questions.

He's located in Kentucky.

www.allenamps.com/index.php

I have one of his Encore kits that I'm slowly never finishing. I seriously thought about doing a 15" Encore kit build, but got distracted by his deal on the 2 x 10" kit at the time.

[lpdeluxe]

Thanks; I'll check him out.

Your avatar is somehow exactly the way I've always pictured you....

[ChrisK]

I don't remember where I got the pic for the avatar. Someone had posted here that his wife's dog unnerved him since it just kept looking at them when they made love.


This was the posted pic of the dog........

[lpdeluxe]

That's unnerving all right. It would make me uneasy if he looked at me like that while I was taking out the trash, let alone something more intimate.

Say, that's not RCA's Nipper, is it?

[D2o]

You have a good memory, Chris!

P.S. Do you want a free dog? My wife says my beloved puppy gives her the creeps - she says it stares at her while she changes clothes. I don't know what she's talking about ... ;D

[sumgai]

Hmmmm, some changes going on here this morning..... Must be that Buddy Miles is back in town.

I do have access to a whole surf band's worth of Dual Showmans, and I'm here to tell you, Eminence has an overly optomistic opinion of how its products compare to The Holy Grail. Half the band works in local music stores, so they have access to everything you can imagine, and for them (and presumably for most 'big box' lovers), there's a reason why used JBL's cost so much.

If the wallet gets second priority, then this is where your search ends. ;D

HTH




sumgai

[ChrisK]

Uh, oh, uh oh, this aminal (sp) isn't (related to) kyle is it?

This would d'esplain a lot (and lead to many more questions and fears).