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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 5, 2009 22:01:58 GMT -5
I had two humbuckers sitting around, and I decided to make myself a HSH strat clone. Body is rounted out fine, and I go the pickguard for cheap, and now I'm looking at wiring diagrams. I found one for HH and SSS modes, using a 4PDT switch, one volume and one tone. It's on the site here: www.alloutput.com/Wiring/hsh_wiring.htmlOne thing I noticed is that I have duncan pups with five wires, those four he shows plus bare, and I'm not exactly sure why he left those out. So I think it would be killer if some of the vets hit me up with some feedback on it. I'm still deciding what to do, but this looks like it has some potential to be pretty cool. Jesse |
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Post by newey on Jul 5, 2009 23:15:08 GMT -5
SBS-
The bare wire is understood to be the shield, they just go to the shield ground. They are often left off diagrams for clarity's sake.
As far as HSH wiring schemes go, there are many things that can be done, depending on what you want. The point of the scheme you link to is to be able to switch to HH, while having sort-of standard Strat choices on the 5-way. I say "sort of" because, to my ear, half a HB doesn't really sound like a single coil pup. That's not to say it's not worthwhile to split a HB's coils, but the sound of one-half of a HB is different.
He also has several redundant positions on the 5-way. Again, that's not necessarily a problem, more a matter of preference.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 6, 2009 11:43:19 GMT -5
Yeah, in HH mode the 5 way has some extra space, but I don't really mind.
And After I test it to see if it works, I'm going to start lookings to find pups that sound good split. I've heard nice things about DiMarzios when split.
Maybe Lace Sensors? The info says they're just two singles put together... Seems like a strange thing to mention, since ALL humbuckers are pretty much exactly that. Even 2 and 4 spots on a strat are two singles.
But other than that the diagram looks good to go? I think I'll get started on it tonight... Finally got my router bit, though, so we'll see what I decide to tackle.
the other way I had considered doing this was using push-pulls on the HBs to split them manually, but then I would loose the option of having both buckers on at once.
...unless I just threw out the 5 way and put on/offs to each of the pups... hrm...
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 12, 2009 21:52:08 GMT -5
Was talking to a guy at home in Michigan about the guitar, and he says he loves it, and wants me to wire it with the setup from the site, and he'll buy it off of me.
I'm a little skeptical of splitting the HBs, but since this is my first experience with coil splitting, I figure I'm gonna do it as a learnn experience anyway. I already had the 4PDT sitting around, and the other stuff is here.
SO, the body is fully shielded, the pickguard is fully shielded, WELL shielded, btw... I shield like Kevlar, but with copper tape... resulting in about 60 little cuts on the ends of my fingers from separating the paper and smoothing the stuff down... so it needs only to be routed out a small bit and then have the input soldered. After that it'll be pretty much ready to go.
When I finish this one pics will be posted in the gallery, if I ever get the energy to upload them.
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Post by D2o on Jul 13, 2009 9:08:17 GMT -5
What do you mean by this? Do you use multiple layers of shielding?
D2o
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 13, 2009 11:02:52 GMT -5
lol no, I wasn't being literal.
I'll post a pic of my shielding. It's a thing of beauty.
Plenty of time+plenty of patience+OCD tendencies=a thing of beauty.
The "Kevlar" part was just to imply that it's bulletproof in shieldings own way; it can stop stray signals like a kevlar vest can stop stray bullets.
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 13, 2009 15:18:12 GMT -5
Yes, they often are.
No. Most side-by-side coil humbuckers are two relatively weak single coils in series sharing a common magnetic framework. This common magnetic framework, with its focused, wide dual pole-row window is why these never do sound like a true single coil when split/shunted/shorted/tapped. They stay all fluxed up.
Most individual single coils, even if placed adjacent to each other are individual single coils with separate magnetic structures. Now, due to proximity, there will be intermingling of lines of flux, especially if they are of opposite magnetic polarity (as required for hum cancellation of noise, but common mode reinforcement of output signal).
Yes, but they are two strong single coils widely spaced in parallel.
I have a build in the oven that uses a Rio Grande Twangbucker in the bridge. This is two true single coil pickups adjacent to each other, of opposite magnetic polarity. They have individual coil pole slugs (6 each).
The neck pickup in this build is a Seymour Duncan P-90 Stack, an over/under coiled (2) P-90 structure. The top coil produces the majority of the output and the lower coil (the one under the magnetic structure) is much quieter as it is the subtracting coil for hum. This is a hum canceling pickup, but it has the fairly unique characteristic of having virtually the same magnetic framework as a P-90, allowing the selection of either single coil (top) or both coils with the same magnetic signature.
When in combination with another pickup coil (such as the opposite magnetic polarity bridge single coil), true hum canceling combinations occur.
If one wants to "know" the SCN pickup, start with the P-90. (And read Willi's patent.)
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 13, 2009 19:40:15 GMT -5
Hrrmmm... So when splitting a humbucker there will be a difference in tone that will be noticeable when compared to a split dual single coil?
I had a feeling that Lace was mentioning it for a reason! So if this is the case, I would expect the true dual singles to be a desirable thing for guitarists. I'm surprised they don't push it more. Lace doesn't mention any of this about separate framework. Is there a reason they barely mention it? It seems that it would be a good selling point for them to shove into the spec sheet.
That they wouldn't mention something that can be considered "good," I would have to guess (could be wrong) that there are people about that would consider it "bad."
Are there any drawbacks to the separate framework? Or do most people just know off the top of their heads that "dually" implies separate framework?
Every answer spawns a dozen questions, but I guess that's what keeps people coming back. The more one knows the more one knows one doesn't know.
Though I suppose that really only works in one direction, since I doubt every 9 year old to stumble into a book about theoretical physics is brilliant by default... now I'm just on a tangent...
Thanks, Chris.
Jesse
P.S - you mention the Rio. What other pups that you know of have that sort of construction? This has me interested.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 13, 2009 20:18:41 GMT -5
Jesse, For a long time, Lace was a one-man outfit, meaning that there was no Marketing Department, thus there was no MarketingSpeak. I like to think that he carries on the tradition right through to today.  Fender is a different story. I would guess that there's an agreement in place between Fender and Lace such that they keep the claims down. Your choice as to exactly why, I'm sure there are as many guesses as there are GuitarNutz! ;D sumgai |
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 13, 2009 21:02:56 GMT -5
Humility in the face of possibly increased sales?!?!?
Fender must have 'em by the nuggets over something.
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 13, 2009 22:40:56 GMT -5
Which Lace?
The father (Don) or the son?
Originally they did sensors for military/business applications. They are not pickups in the traditional sense, and some (the sensors) do not easily play/intermingle with traditional single coils.
Fender and Lace had marketing agreements in the past, and Fender used Lace "pickups". The original Fender Jeff Beck model guitar was one that had the dual single sensor, single selectable bridge hum canceling arrangement.
There are those among us (myself included) that find Lace sensors to be a tad too Hi-Fi and hence, pure/pristine.
I have a set of the Alumitones that lasted one hour in the PadoukCaster before being yanked. While they are wide range pickups (they are NOT true humbuckers), they have a broad wide response and didn't work well in series/parallel combinations. They are 2 counter turned single turn primaries coupled to an integral step-up transformer.
I've often thought that they'd make excellent series (the possible intermingling thing) boosters adjacent to a traditional single coil, but there would be no hum cancellation.
I have the MellowCaster that I did last year with the DG-20 set that I haven't been able to bring myself to care enough to put strings on. I'm looking for other pickups to use just because......
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 13, 2009 22:42:53 GMT -5
They are, unless one wants the sound of a side-by-side humbucker.
What, you want egg in yer beer too?
Physics is.
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Post by newey on Jul 13, 2009 23:25:12 GMT -5
Someone's been reading the collected works of Donald Rumsfeld. ;D
Chris is right, the sound of a split coil off of a HB is not "bad" compared to a single coil, it just doesn't sound like a single coil. It's just different.
Some folks, apparently, like egg in their beer. Others drink it with lime. Who am I to say they're weenies?
De gustibus non est disputandum, or so the Romans said.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 14, 2009 11:23:01 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Don wasn't the first one to say that.
I just pulled that one with that wording out of me butt, though.
Not to say anything in tone is "bad," exactly, just to say that some people might find them bad. (OMG! EMG 81/81 set ftw!)
So would the dually singles sound more like a single? I'd assume so. Single with actual hum canceling.
Sounds like something I'd like to put into a HH beast. I love me some single coils.
I still want to play around with p-90s a bit more... Dig out a hole to mount one right up on the neck pups arse and wire up some options on my neck. I love me some p-90s. I think that cheap little PRS single cutaway with the 2 Ps would be a nice test subject for that.
I wish I liked pickguards. It would make off the wall pup configurations less difficult. And less permanent.
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Post by D2o on Jul 14, 2009 11:43:13 GMT -5
Jesse,
I have an inky stinkling that the tone will not measure up to sounding like a true single coil ... more like a coil split sort of "compromise".
I suspect that the hum cancelling may meet your expectations, though.
D2o
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 14, 2009 11:55:29 GMT -5
It's all about compromise.
From what I've heard about the sensors, they don't really sound like normal pups anyway, so I'd expect the two singles to not sound like a humbucker, something from which they are not one, but two steps removed. (sensor/pickup and humbucker/dually)
I find myself enjoying singles more and more these days. Singles and acoustics. I think I'll try to find something with them equipped and give it a listen.
...does anything come with these stock? I'm only a short drive from both a GC and a SA. Mmm brick and mortar.
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Post by D2o on Jul 14, 2009 12:13:44 GMT -5
De gustibus non est disputandum, or so the Romans said. Yeah, and fast-forward a few years to the often misquoted line from Anton Chekhov's (of "Star Trek", I think) play "The Seagull", it would come out as something like "Let nothing be said of taste but what is good" ... those damned Trekkies, always trying to censor everything. |
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Post by D2o on Jul 14, 2009 12:23:23 GMT -5
From what I've heard about the sensors, they don't really sound like normal pups anyway ..... Yes, they seem to have built-in shielding, which also focuses the magnetic field ... damned Trekkies again. Most people seem to like them, others not as much. |
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 14, 2009 16:38:38 GMT -5
I'm totally gonna try some... I wish MF didn't have the extra conditions on the pickup returns. I'd be re-puping every week if I could keep those SOBs for 45 days.
...and recording with all of them to post for the lovely GN2!
Yeah, right... let's see how long I take even getting my project pictures up lol.
...I have confirmation that my nuts have been shipped. *coughs*
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Post by D2o on Jul 14, 2009 17:10:58 GMT -5
...I have confirmation that my nuts have been shipped. *coughs* |
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jul 14, 2009 17:24:51 GMT -5
What can Brown do for you?
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