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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 4, 2010 12:52:40 GMT -5
Here is a results table on the outputs I achieve with all the possible wiring options The new sounds are all in red and there are 24 not counting the use of tone knobs in these possibilities  There is a suspect reading from the mid+CAP in series mode, as it read 1meg!!! Whats that all about eh!!! Anyways For anyone who tries this whole bunch of stuff, some sounds may sound the same as others with one set up (ie effects pedals, amps) where as with changes in set ups you can bring out the differences between say: bridge in series humbucking+mid+neck and bridge in parallel humbucking+mid+neck honest subtlities and that but they're there!! Plenty of tone to try!! or find!! |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 4, 2010 14:32:13 GMT -5
Gerry, Remember when I said that you were gonna lose your hair over the Mid*cap readings? This is it. The cap can't pass DC, which of course is what your meter is using to measure resistance. (That small matter of there being a battery in the thing......) In other positions, a pickup in parallel with this combo will measure exactly the same as without the Mid*cap. 1MΩ is the reading across the pot, which in fact, is there all the time. However, due to simple arithmetic, that 1Meg reading can be discounted to just about zero effect, for the purposes of your truth table..... that is, until that cap gets in the way.  HTH sumgai |
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 4, 2010 21:10:05 GMT -5
In other positions, a pickup in parallel with this combo will measure exactly the same as without the Mid*cap. But I'm not seeing any of those. There are positions where another pickup (or two) is in series with the mid, and in parallel with the cap. Like M*(N+cap). These will (and do) measure the same as the two pickups in series, without the cap. I didn't go through with a calculator, but these readings look roughly good to me. |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 5, 2010 15:02:28 GMT -5
ash, Correct, he doesn't show any such parallel combos in his chart, I only include that for the sake of completeness. Obviously there will be some duplicates, but since I haven't personally gone through the diagram to ascertain the truth table for myself, I can't be sure of just how many. But when I multiply 5 pickup selector positions by 3 Bridge possibilities (parallel, single, series) by 3 global possibilities (series, normal, Bridge on) I get an answer of 45 combos, not the 35 we see above. Hmmm, needs more investigation.....  sumgai |
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Post by JohnH on Mar 5, 2010 18:00:59 GMT -5
I hadnt been tuned into this one, but it turns out to be quite a beast and catches heaps of great options. So well done to all.
I think the missing 10 switch combos come from the standard strat settings, no bridge on, not in series mode, and using the Hb switch to select parallel (another 5) and single coil (another 5). I dont think this yields any further actual new sounds however.
Im interested in the extra cap that goes in series with mid. Is it nicer to have a low value like 0.0047, so that the mid sound is significantly modified with less bass, or to use a value more like a tone cap (0.022 or 0.047) so it has a greater effect in bypassing the other coils when combined in series with N or B. (I know that sound - and its good, single coil bite with extra bass from the bypassed pickup)?
John
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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 8, 2010 11:42:52 GMT -5
Gerry, Remember when I said that you were gonna lose your hair over the Mid*cap readings? This is it. The cap can't pass DC, which of course is what your meter is using to measure resistance. (That small matter of there being a battery in the thing......) In other positions, a pickup in parallel with this combo will measure exactly the same as without the Mid*cap. 1MΩ is the reading across the pot, which in fact, is there all the time. However, due to simple arithmetic, that 1Meg reading can be discounted to just about zero effect, for the purposes of your truth table..... that is, until that cap gets in the way. HTH sumgai Okey doke, I'd forgot about that but now I understand. Yeah it only seems as loud as a normal mid pup position on my axe. |
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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 8, 2010 11:48:47 GMT -5
In other positions, a pickup in parallel with this combo will measure exactly the same as without the Mid*cap. But I'm not seeing any of those. There are positions where another pickup (or two) is in series with the mid, and in parallel with the cap. Like M*(N+cap). These will (and do) measure the same as the two pickups in series, without the cap. I didn't go through with a calculator, but these readings look roughly good to me. ash, Correct, he doesn't show any such parallel combos in his chart, I only include that for the sake of completeness. Obviously there will be some duplicates, but since I haven't personally gone through the diagram to ascertain the truth table for myself, I can't be sure of just how many. But when I multiply 5 pickup selector positions by 3 Bridge possibilities (parallel, single, series) by 3 global possibilities (series, normal, Bridge on) I get an answer of 45 combos, not the 35 we see above. Hmmm, needs more investigation..... sumgai No idea what you guys is talking about here??? What have I done wrong now? |
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Post by newey on Mar 8, 2010 13:14:45 GMT -5
RG-
You're fine, nothing wrong. Ash and SG were just pointing out the effect of the cap on various combos which are purely theoretical in your case. And JohnH had the answer to why your chart only shows 35 possible combos instead of 45:
John's right, this doesn't add any new or different combos, just duplicates some that you already have.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 8, 2010 13:22:02 GMT -5
You've done nothing wrong.
SG and I were babbling about measuring things with caps involved. He was talking hypothetical, and I was talking about your specific case. If you don't understand the points, though, you'll have to ask more specific questions.
I think JohnH identified the missing positions.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 8, 2010 13:51:35 GMT -5
Hmmmm....... I'm not sure I agree with John on that particular item. I guess I'll need to sit down and go through all the combos, one by one, and see what transpires. And it's not "theoretical" to note that DC (from one's meter) doesn't go through a capacitor - that's a fact of life than can be demonstrated quite easily. The only "theory" part that could come into play would be the frequency range of effect, as noted by John. I don't have a clue as to what would sound better, that's a subjective finding in any case. But IIRC, Chris once said that the nominally normal tone cap was a good all-around choice, or at least a good starting point for comparison. Fender's use of a 0.003µf yields a noticible effect, but to my mind, it wasn't enough to make me think "hey, this is good, I gotta keep this". No, I ripped it out as being too close to the standard N+M or M+B combos. Now perhaps if I'd experimented with different values first, instead of being so hasty..... sumgai |
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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 8, 2010 14:27:03 GMT -5
Good Oh kids!! I think (now I'm not sure....but I do think) that I left some repeated options cause they were just going over already achievable sounds.
Like you can get bridge on and middle, but thats already achievable in standard mode in pos 2.
As for the cap thing? I didn't know the cap was ever in series, only parallel.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 8, 2010 17:17:27 GMT -5
The cap (when selected) is in series with the middle pickup. From what I can tell, when othe pickups are also selected, they're also in series with the middle, but in parallel with the cap. Higher freqs find it easier (in a manner of speaking) to go through the cap than through the other pickups. Lower frequencies would prefer to go through the other pickup. 0Hz (aka DC) is a very low freq, can't go through the cap, and therefore must go through the pup. So your meter ignores the cap altogether and reports the DC resistance of both pups in series.
SG - I said hypothetical because you were discussing a case which doesn't appear (to me) in this scheme. Pretty sure that's what newey meant when he said "theoretically" as well. Your basic assertion is, of course, correct and indisputable.
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Post by newey on Mar 8, 2010 23:45:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I think we're all on the same page here . . . Bottom line, RG's mod apparently works as intended. There are some duplications of tones, but that's pretty much a given with schemes involving several switches. There seems to be an underlying dichotomy on this site. On the one hand, schemes that attempt to realize most, if not all, combinations of a given number of coils, or schemes that focus on a smaller number of "all usable" tones, avoiding duplications. The giggers seem to go with the latter option, while the studio rats opt for more variability. Just sayin', you know? |
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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 10, 2010 12:13:18 GMT -5
I like a lot of options, and try use em as best I can. As I said in an earlier post above, some crap combos are good sounding and interesting with different setups. For example, using a multi effects pedal as I do allows me to have different amp sims and what not so it helps to make the most of the varied combos.
Why do I need so many sounds or slight variations? I don't, I just like it and the choice and new tones, sets my apart from the EMG playing twats I come into contact with when I gig with my band. There all there with their black ESP's and Jacksons wondering why I'm playing a fender strat!! I'm not even going to explain that one!!
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