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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 19, 2009 9:51:07 GMT -5
Hi there, Hope this is the right place to ask what I'm about to ask!!
OK first question
I'm interested in replacing the caps on my Strat, at the moment its all standard stuff in there and wiring. So I was thinking of upgrading the cap (or caps as I intend to give each separate values).
Well on investigation I have saw loadsa different type of caps on the market and I was hoping people could provide me with some sort of good reference guide as to which brands offer what qualities. Before I choose some caps I want to know is there really a "difference" or is it all down to the caps value. I'd really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction as I'd never know which to choose and I wouldn't spend a tonne of money on something so small because of "here say".
To ad to this, I notice a lot of qualities people like in guitar gear seems to be all about "warmth", so I'd be keen to find out if more expensive caps will ad more warmth to My sound, in which case I wouldn't bother as more "warmth" to me usually means "dull".
I'd appreciate any guidance folks!!
Second question is
I'm thinking also of getting those back plate devices for my single coils in the neck and middle position, however I've noticed that the mod of adding a steel plate (or whichever metal I choose to use) is only effective in the bridge position according to articles I have read. Is this true? Would it be worth my while getting plates for my neck and middle pups? I don't require a plate for my bridge pup since it's a high output hum-bucker.
To add to this question about whether or not it would be worth my while adding the plates to my neck and middle single coil pup I have to mention that both neck and middle are already high output single coils at around 9.5 - 10k, is the mod more likely to make these pups sound better or worse? I have big sounding single coils as it is but I love modding and I'd do anything if its gonna make bigger, badder single coils MONSTROUS!!
So again I'd appreciate any feedback or insight from the folk on here!!
Third question
I am about to make my strat into a "7 sound strat" where I have a switch that will allow me to turn my bridge hum bucker on in any other position as well as add another switch for series/parallel hum-bucking. I'm keen to add another switch which will allow me to have positions 2 and 4 (normally the parallel hum-bucking positions) wired in series. I have come across a few mod diagrams for this but they are usually more complex than what I require. All I want is a switch taking the normal parallel wiring to series for different hum-bucking sounds.
If anyone has simple easy to read diagram (not schematics) of such a mod I'd very much like to see it.
OK that it I hope its not too much for you boffins here!!
Thanks
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Post by wolf on Aug 19, 2009 14:35:17 GMT -5
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 19, 2009 20:25:11 GMT -5
It's all related to the electrical parameters of the capacitors. Unfortunately, these are not published except by the manufacturers of these components. These are not published by the vendors of these components for two major reasons; the first is that they generally don't have even a hint of a clue as to what they mean, and the second is that many of them do not want things reduced to actual specifications as this exposure to the "light of day" eliminates their ability to sell things based on marketing manure. No one takes the time and effort to quantify these parameters as little change will result therefrom. Keep in mind that most guitar manufacturer's used the cheapest available components (it's a business, you get to keep the difference), and hence, those special "vintage" components aren't all that special. wolf's links are good in that their limited and somewhat folklore based descriptions are good for musicians (but somewhat horrid for electrical engineers such as myself). The statement that "vintage wire must be used to fully hear the effect" is a poor excuse for fertilizer. Now, the biggest problem with the tone capacitance in an electric guitar is the cable crapacitance. If your pickups sound too "warm", this generally indicates excessive cable crapacitance. This is a good source of low capacitance cable. Low Capacitance CableThis is how you order them. Their web site layout is convoluted at best. Bill (Willi Stich, the inventor of the Fender SCN pickups) actually knows what he is talking about from an engineering perspective (compared to the legions that either just parrot what they read or have Fool's gold to sell). www.wildepickups.com/Wilde_Bill_s_Online_Shop.htmlAdding a plate of ferrous metal (iron-based) will have the effect of increasing the inductance of the pickup and therefore reducing the frequency response. It will sound "warmer". "Whatever metal" you choose is of paramount importance. Ferrous metals will increase the inductance while non-ferrous metals (such as brass) will reduce the inductance. These plates will have effect regardless of the pickup position. Stating that the effect is only occurring in bridge pickups is the unfortunate view of the legions cursed with binary vision. The most effect will occur on a Strat bridge pickup that does not have a tone control since it is in the most harmonically rich position and it does not, er, generally have a tone control. A bridge always-on switch is easy. It does get more complex depending on the series/parallel switching structure. The statement reveals little but infers much depending on what the structure of the lever switch means in this mode. Having a binary switch for bridge always-on and a binary switch for series/parallel infers up to 20 pickup combinations with a 5 position lever switch. I rarely keep wiring diagrams of specific implementations as they are easy to design and generate once the specifications stop "wobbling". I do have some designs in wiring (instantiation form) rather than just schematics (the architectural vision) although most wiring diagrams are quite restrictive of lateral vision and thinking. These both are designs that I personally recommend. Read and understand each entire post before passing judgment. 3 Single Coils and The "S-None Switch" Mike Richardson wiring with phaseThese posts relate to the effect of parallel capacitance. Pickup Coil Response Tuning The Passive High-Cut Tone Control |
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Post by newey on Aug 19, 2009 20:41:58 GMT -5
In discussing vintage caps, in part II of the article wolf linked to from Premier Guitar mag, the statement is made: OK, now my BS detector is singing like a geiger counter on a pile of plutonium . . . Rewiring using the Gibby '50s scheme will certainly affect one's tone, but cloth wire??? Maybe everything the guy had to say about caps was valid, but I'm tuning out when I read the "vintage cloth wire" canard. I used to use ceramic caps. Seemed that most guitars I pulled apart had them, and I replaced with what I saw as I didn't know any better. Based on ChrisK's recommendations (in the cap discussion wolf linked to), I started using poly film caps, the "green chicklet" style. I do think these sound superior to the ceramic ones. However, using the "vintage" ones, the big oil-and-paper jobs is, IMO, more snake oil. While I have never used those, I have heard before/after comparisons by friends who did use them. If there's a difference I'm not hearing it . . . It seems like the folks who claim great tone benefits are the ones with a vested interest in selling you a $30 cap.  As far as your second question, we had someone post recently about using a backplate, I'm going to have to root around in the basement and see if I can find that post . . . EDIT:And ChrisK beat me to the post button. We both noticed, however, the cloth wire claim! |
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Post by wolf on Aug 20, 2009 2:34:02 GMT -5
Since you folks noticed the "vintage cloth wire" comment in the article I linked to, I'm surprised you took it seriously. (Gee I thought we were a rather witty bunch around here).
I thought the author used that remark strictly as a joke. (Anyway, that's how I read it).
Remember the time we were all making jokes about how anything from the factory today couldn't possibly even come close to even the slightest echo of the faintest whisper of anything from the "Vintage" days? Someone made a remark that the pickups of today can't sound like those of the old days because the "Vintage" magnets were smelted from alnico ore that was mined from a now-abandoned alnico mine in Antarctica?
But be that as it may (and I doubt if it ever was), I might as well address ChrisK's comments about capacitor specifications.
Personally, changing the type of capacitor to provide some subtle change in tone is not my idea of guitar rewiring. I feel if you're going to make a change in the wiring, make it something that's going to be noticed. Way back in 1980, when I first ecountered my Gibson SG's "muddy" sound, I could have tried substituing the 500K volume pot with a 1 Meg, which would have made it brighter sounding (to a rather small extent). Basically I decided it needed 4 wire humbuckers, coil-cut switches, series/parallel switches, etc.
And in a somewhat related story, I remember reading a Corvette Message Board in which someone made this posting. (Okay it's not word for word but it was something like this).
My friend is constantly spending time and money to gain even the slightest increase in engine performance. He's even installed porcelain-coated intake manifolds to get that extra bit of engine power. Recently he changed the entire transmission system because it weighs about 20 pounds less than his factory-installed system and this cost him about $12,000. Oh by the way, my friend weighs over 400 pounds.
So, basically my point is, don't sweat the small stuff.
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Post by newey on Aug 20, 2009 5:39:34 GMT -5
Well, if Mr. Wacker was joking, then my apologies to him.
Wolf said:
Agreed. And, most folks switch their caps as part of a larger project- new pickups, rewiring, and so forth, making any later discernment of a change solely due to the caps an iffy proposition at best.
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Post by flateric on Aug 20, 2009 8:43:35 GMT -5
Audio mojo and placebo ears aboud in this topic. I am a big cynic.
If you are wanting to 'upgrade' your caps, i would not bother. Normal people don't hear the difference between a vintage sprague/orange drop that cost them $15 compared to a modern ceramic cap that costs 5c, unless they convince themselves of an improvement to justify the cost of said items.
Remember there can sometimes be as much as +/- 20% tolerance in component values.
If you want to change the cap to a different value, then you will be changing the ramp of treble roll-off as you turn the tone pot. A lower (smaller) value cap will act as more of a high pass filter and cut more bass than a bigger value cap. If you have your tone control set at 10 all the time then the cap will do virtually nothing in the circuit anyway, you will not hear a significant change in tonal quality unless you have bionic hearing or are a bat, which i presume you are not as they have great trouble using conventional PC keyboards, and besides, they would be a nightmare to trust with a hot soldring iron and might damage their leathery wings.
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 20, 2009 20:17:29 GMT -5
A lower (smaller) value cap will act as less of a high pass filter to ground and hence cut less treble than a larger value cap. The lower cap value will effectively raise the corner frequency of the filter.
No bass is cut by a high-pass series RC filter to signal ground, which effectively is a high-cut filter.
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Post by flateric on Aug 21, 2009 1:51:31 GMT -5
Well at least I was right about the bat. My electronics is all befuddled - building a couple of boost pedals for bass, everyone's saying you have to increase the value of the input caps (eg: from 68nFto 0.1uF) to make sure the bass frequencies come thru.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 21, 2009 10:21:25 GMT -5
flat,
Well, the deal is, a capacitor is high-pass device. As its value increases, the range of frequencies it passes extends ever lower. That gives credence to your statement (the one you quoted) about needing a higher value cap in order to increase the bass response. (BTW, 0.068µf to 0.1µf is not much of an increase in frequency response, about half an octave, under most circumstances....)
However, when we hook one up in our guitar, it's actually going to work "backwards" - it will be taking our pickup signals, and shunting the higher frequencies out of them to signal return (nee ground). Remember, the basic law of electricity (even before Ohm's Law) is that electricity tends to take the easiest path to complete its circuit.* In the case of a tone control, it's much easier for the high frequencies to pass through the capacitor (and the control) to the signal return line, and thence back to the pickup, than for said frequencies to go out the guitar, through the amp, etc. Which explains why we call it a 'treble cut' control.
HTH
sumgai
* Which is exactly why Chris insists, and rightly so, that "Someone is always the fuse".
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 21, 2009 11:10:28 GMT -5
To put it another way, the caps flateric is talking about are in series with the signal. The cap in the hi-cut tone control is in parallel.
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 22, 2009 7:34:25 GMT -5
Holy crap!! Thats a shed load of info people, my limited internet access is whats slowing my responses to you so gimme a while to digest everything you have said.
I have just recieved a pup back from the guy who made them for me, I was having it re wound so all mods can commense once I install the middle pup again to my strat. I had him wind it even hotter so as it would balance better with the neck so I've roughly got
neck 9.5k
middle 12.5k
and bridge (hum) 14.5k
I'm gonna copy all your info take it home and read it thankS
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 24, 2009 12:17:45 GMT -5
Ok so there is no other way around incorporating all those mods I wanted to do without removing the five way switch? Then I will have to just be patient with two switches turning bridge humbucker on in any position and from series to parallel. The mod Wolf describes is too much for my taste. I was hopeing I could just ad another switch which would allow for alternate series wiring for the positions 2 and 4. The sort of design I was looking at was the "Stratocaster Bermuda" design guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=741oh well I should be satisfied with what I can already do I suppose. Actually now that I'm looking at it may be I can get some use out of the "S-none" diagram and just apply it to my humbucker since it depicts what things would look like with 3 single coils and not 2 single coils and a humbucker. |
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Post by sumgai on Aug 25, 2009 12:33:33 GMT -5
rg, No, you can still accomplish your goal of keeping a 5-way switch, and with the addition of only one more DPDT toggle/push-pull, you can have series or parallel for the 2 and 4 positions of your 5-way. However, the gotcha is, you'll have to replace your current switch with what's commonly called a 'superswitch'. This is technically known as a 4P5T - you have 4 poles instead of the normal 2 poles, and there are still the same number of throws, 5. (You might all see this called a MegaSwitch. Way back in the past, like 10 years ago, that was the previous name for what we now call a superswitch. However, there is now a company making Megaswitches (out of Germany) that makes different models, that do different things. Ask ChrisK for more info, if you're interested. But for our purposes here and now, you don't need any of these, a standard superswitch will do the job nicely.) You need this because, if you'll look again at wolf's diagrams for his UltraStrat™ Mod, you'll see that you need three SPST switches, one each for shorting out its respective pickup. You can easily imitate that behavior with a superswitch. You'll simply wire it "backwards" - instead of selecting a pickup by making a connection, it will break the shunting connection in order for the pickup to be heard. If you need a wiring diagram, I'm sure we can come up with one somewhere aroond here.....  BTW, the thread you linked just above (the Bermuda Strat by borsanova) actually has a major error - the tone controls are copied from a standard Strat diagram, meaning they're useful in the parallel selection. However, when series is chosen, then they'll interact with each other, i.e. one control will affect all of the selected pickups, when in series. This can be disconcerting, and it may not give you the desired tone, or it could be a "who cares" to you, I dunno. Just be aware of that little "gotcha".  If you still want those series combinations, then we'll have to show you how to wire up the tone control(s) so that you don't suffer the same tone loss. In fact, some players kinda like how when you 'darken' one pup, the other pickup(s) actually kinda brighten up a bit. Pretty cool, if that's your bag.  HTH sumgai |
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 25, 2009 19:41:37 GMT -5
I would like to (re)point out that the 3 Single Coils and The "S-None Switch" design uses either a Schaller mega switch "E" or a standard Fender 5-way, both in conjunction with a DPDT switch to effect both bridge and middle in series and middle and neck in series. No 4P5T super switch is required. |
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Post by sumgai on Aug 25, 2009 23:12:31 GMT -5
Chris, True, but your methodology yields a different set of resultant combinations than what rabidgerry asked for..... To quote from his first post: Third question
..... I'm keen to add another switch which will allow me to have positions 2 and 4 (normally the parallel hum-bucking positions) wired in series. I have come across a few mod diagrams for this but they are usually more complex than what I require. All I want is a switch taking the normal parallel wiring to series for different hum-bucking sounds. (emphasis mine) For all that wolf and I usually arrive at the same goal by vastly different roads, I believe that in this instance, his UltraStrat™ design comes closer to fitting what rg is asking for. Or at least, what he asked for initially. By now, he may well have wobbled the specs, so to speak.  sumgai |
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 12:53:29 GMT -5
Bare with me people, but I've decided (despite not having any electrical background and only a mild guitar modding background) too knock up my own wiring design. I'll submit it and you guys can tell me if it's crap or if it'll just not work. If I fail (which there is a very hi percentage of that possibility) then I'll consider the super switch.
At minute I'm stuck on something pretty stupid. I have a ON/ON SP switch that I bought for doin the Bridge on PUP mod FOR "Seven Sound Strat". However all the mods I've saw of this say I need a SPST switch that is ON/OFF
Well my query is both switches have 3 tags, on the mod diagrams I have looked at, so I'm wondering do I use the same tags on a SP ON/ON switch?
For some reason the store I was shopping in on had ON/ON mini toggle switches no ON/OFF
P.S it doesn't say on my mini toggle if its SPDT but I think that an ON/ON means its double throw?? Sorry for the ignorance, but this is where I learn right!
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 26, 2009 12:56:45 GMT -5
Well, I can't actually tell what rabidgerry wants as
may mean that he explicitly wants to have to put the lever switch in positions 2 and 4 as well as change the toggle (DPDT) switch,
or it may mean that he wants the parallel pickup configurations that occur in positions 2 and 4 to be in series rather than in parallel, in yet to be specified lever switch positions.
The S-none designs, as well as the Fender SSS S-1 design selects
the bridge in series with the middle in position 1,
the bridge (in parallel with the "special cap") in series with the middle in position 2,
the neck (in parallel with the "special cap") in series with the middle in position 4,
and the neck in series with the middle in position 5.
The only variation is in position 3.
If you like the bridge in parallel with the neck in position 3, and the bridge in parallel with the neck, both in series with the middle in alt position 3, use the Schaller Mega Switch "E" version of the S-none design.
If you must have the middle only in position 3, and will settle for the middle in series with the "special cap" in alt position 3, then use the Fender standard 5-way lever version of the S-none design.
If you must have the middle only in position 3, and the bridge in parallel with the neck, both in series with the middle in alt position 3, then use the Fender SSS S-1 design.
We already have more design options than we have guidance as to what is actually desired.
Maybe he'd be happy with the Mike Richardson scheme?
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 12:58:51 GMT -5
Oh yeah and to make clear again what I'm attempting overall
One Switch that does the "Seven Sound Strat"
One Switch that switches my Bridge humbucker from series to parallel
One Switch that switches positions 2 and 4 on a 5 way from parallel to seires
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 26, 2009 13:00:07 GMT -5
A SPST switch, which is an ON/OFF switch, is a subset of a SPDT ON/ON switch.
A SPST ON/OFF switch is essentially a SPDT ON/ON switch with one end terminal missing.
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 13:05:59 GMT -5
Oh ok then the diagrams I've saw for this mod show a switch with 3 tags which means I just follow the diagram to the t then since my switch has 3tags.
ok Thanks
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 26, 2009 13:06:10 GMT -5
This is a SPST switch that places either the bridge or neck in parallel with whatever else is selected in parallel.
This is a DPDT switch that is completely unrelated to the rest of the wiring scheme.
I presume that this places the neck in series with the middle in position 4. Does it also place the middle in series with the bridge (regardless of whether the bridge is in internal parallel or series) in position 2?
What happens in positions 1, 3, and 5 when the guitar is in series?
What does the "Seven Sound Strat" switch mean when the guitar is in series?
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 13:07:53 GMT -5
or it may mean that he wants the parallel pickup configurations that occur in positions 2 and 4 to be in series rather than in parallel, in yet to be specified lever switch positions. Yes I want another individual switch to achieve what you have just said ChrisK as well as the other mods |
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 13:11:28 GMT -5
dunno which is why I came on here to see if it had been done, it could be a no no in the format that I wish but there you go, I'm just being greedy for sounds is all. |
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 26, 2009 13:15:18 GMT -5
This is still ambiguous.
Please define the positions.
Mode is parallel
Seven sound is OFF
Neck
Position 5. Neck
Position 4. Neck in parallel with Middle
Position 3. Middle
Position 2. Bridge in parallel with Middle
Position 1. Bridge
Bridge
Mode is parallel
Seven sound is ON (Bridge always ON)
Neck
Position 5. Neck in parallel with Bridge
Position 4. Neck in parallel with Middle in parallel with Bridge
Position 3. Middle in parallel with Bridge
Position 2. Middle in parallel with Bridge
Position 1. Bridge
Bridge
Mode is series
Seven sound is OFF
Neck
Position 5. _____
Position 4. _____
Position 3. _____
Position 2. _____
Position 1. _____
Bridge
Mode is series
Seven sound is ON
Neck
Position 5. _____
Position 4. _____
Position 3. _____
Position 2. _____
Position 1. _____
Bridge
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 13:28:10 GMT -5
Mode is seriesSeven sound is OFFNeck Position 5. _____ Position 4. _____ Position 3. _____ Position 2. _____ Position 1. _____ Bridge Mode is seriesSeven sound is ONNeck Position 5. _____ Position 4. _____ Position 3. _____ Position 2. _____ Position 1. _____ Bridge Uh I dunno given that I've never tried the series/parallel mod for postitions 2 and 4 before the way I understood series/parallel switching from the stock 2 and 4 postions on a 5way switch was that when it was switched on it switched to basically another channel, a mod I read on guitarnuts influenced my idea of what actually was happening in a series/parallel switching arrangement |
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 26, 2009 13:30:47 GMT -5
I'm a big proponent of the Mike Richardson wiring with phase design. There are only two switches; a 4P5T lever super switch and a DPDT mode switch. The two DPDT phase switches do not have to be implemented as phase switches (or at all). In fact, you might use one for the bridge humbucker series/parallel and one for neck phase. |
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 13:35:21 GMT -5
Mode is seriesSeven sound is OFFNeck Position 5. _bridge____ Position 4. __bridge_+_middle_series_ Position 3. _middle____ Position 2. _middle_+_neck_series__ Position 1. _neck____ Bridge Mode is seriesSeven sound is ONNeck Position 5. _bridge____ Position 4. _bridge_+_middle_series__ Position 3. _middle_+ _bridge__parallel_ Position 2. _middle_+_neck _series +_bridge_parallel_ Position 1. _neck_+_bridge_prallel_ Bridge at a stab I'd have |
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Post by rabidgerry on Aug 26, 2009 13:37:44 GMT -5
This is were arrived at, don't freak out if it looks ridiculous I'm no expert.
I may just have to settle for the two mods and not the three
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 26, 2009 15:02:00 GMT -5
Can we assume, though, that you don't actually want to reverse the action of the 5-way (selecting the bridge pickup when the switch is toward the neck)? |
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If you still want those series combinations, then we'll have to show you how to wire up the tone control(s) so that you don't suffer the same tone loss. In fact, some players kinda like how when you 'darken' one pup, the other pickup(s) actually kinda brighten up a bit. Pretty cool, if that's your bag. 
