Brian May Red special Series/Parallel

[killheart7]

Hello, all. I need to ask you about a guitar wiring scheme that I've wanted for a long time. One of my main guitars is a Burns Brian May signature model, which as many of you know, is a SSS guitar wired in series with individual phase selection switches.



The guitar kicks a lot of butt as it stands, but in my band we switch between a lot of styles, and I'd like to be able to get parallel tones out of my Red Special. I have a strat, but I really don't want to drag a third guitar to gigs.

So, I want a master series/parallel switch on my Red Special. I've scoured the internet for such a wiring schematic only to find forum pages and websites full of dead links to diagram images.

There are two diagrams I've found that are supposed to work, but they both require switches that I can't find anywhere online. That is to say, I can't find a 6pdt that fits in a guitar. I've seen a person or two talk about doing a "relay" between a dpdt and a 4pdt, but I don't know how to do that.

Can anybody help me? I don't know much about the science behind wiring mods, but I'm capable of following directions. If anybody can come up with a scheme for this, I'd love to post sound samples of the monstrously versatile guitar that results.





(EDITed by sumgai to make the link into the 'real thing'.)

[JohnH]

hello and welcome - yes indeed you have come to the right place and the wisdom you seek is within....

The first schematic posted on this site was developed to do exactly this:

ToneMonster2

At its core, it has a DPDT switch to do off and on for each pickup. These were built using toggles, but the slide switches on the Red Special do the same job. Only one phase switch was used, but two more can be easily added. the Series/Parallel is a four pole toggle - quite common.

It also has a blender arrangement - not essential and can be removed.

This design was built several times by several people, so we know it works.

Latter on Pete12345 removed the blender, which is this diagram:



This is the schematic that you need, with the other two phase switches added, in a similar manner to the one shown. (You can keep the volume and tone controls from the current wiring - but these days, I add a 220k resistor in parallel to the 1nF cap.)

Perhaps you can take it from there?

cheers

John

[killheart7]

Wow, thanks so much. You know, this whole time I was looking for a mod designed specifically to accommodate a Red Special, and never thought about searching for SSS guitars that might have been modded to be similar to my guitar.

Unfortunately I can't read this schematic. I don't know the first thing about why things are wired the way they are. I've always just soldered the wires where people have shown me to. I don't know how to add the other two phase switches into this scheme, take out the blend knob, and I don't know what terminals these wires are supposed to be connected to.

If somebody wants to teach me, I'd be glad to learn. Or, if somebody would post a version of the diagram below modified to include the extra two phase switches and take out the blend knob, I'd be very appreciative either way. This diagram is from the ToneMonster2 that JohnH directed me to.

i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww316/JohnDHewitt/circuits/tm2wiringrevb.gif

[bikininspector]

so you don't want the blend knob and phase switches for all 3 Singelecoil Puckups?

in the schem above, the blend knob is alrady removed. And about the phase switches: You see two wires coming from every pickup, both in the schem above and in the link you posted. All the phase switch does is swapping those 2 wires.
If you look at the wiring diagram you linked to, you can see the 2 wires coming from the neck PU to the neck phase switch. If you want phase switching for the other pickups too, you use the same configuration: the 2 wires coming from the pickup go into the phase switch, the 2 wires from the phase switch are then treated like you would have treated the wires from the pickup.
According to the wiring you posted that would be M into S4 and B into S4 and S3.

hope a noob was able to help a noob

[JohnH]

I could help you with a wiring diagram if needed, but not until after Xmas.

In the meantime, to help work out the best wiring, you should consider where an extra toggle switch should go, so it fits with the other switches, and also does not need extra routing of the body (unless you want to do this!).

A 4 pole toggle switch is slightly bigger than a slide switch.

Also, when you look at the front of the guitar, are the on/off switches above the phase switches? Is up on or is down on?

cheers

John

[killheart7]

bikininspector:

I do not want the blend knob, but I do want to keep the standard 6 switches on the guitar. I really just want to add a master series/parallel switch in addition to the standard setup. Thanks for the input, I see how the switches work now.

JohnH:

A picture speaks a thousand words, and I didn't want to leave room for miscommunication, so here's how it works:



After Christmas is just fine. I've been thinking about doing this mod for years and only got serious about it recently, so I don't think a little longer will hurt me too much.

Thanks again for helping me with this. One day I plan on figuring this stuff out for myself, but until then I'm a guy with a soldering iron and a stubborn refusal to pay shops for something I can (with a little guidance) do myself.

[JohnH]

OK, thats fine, but just indicate another place too, where a new switch will go

cheers
john

[killheart7]

Ok, I updated the photo to show where the new switch will go. It's really the only place that the routing will allow a new switch to fit, but it's a pretty convenient spot anyway.

[sumgai]

killer,

You are aware, aren't you, that you can do both On/Off and PhaseReverse in the same slide switch? You don't need two separate switches to perform the two functions.

Consider a stock Fender Mustang (or a later DuoSonic, or some JagStangs....), they use a 2P3T slide switch, making it a common item to purchase, like here: eBay auction of the desired slide switch.   $5.00 USD is a fair price for a new unit. Somewhere you might find 'em cheaper, and used ones should certainly be cheaper, but if you'd like to stick with the slide layout, this'll get you up and running as you wished, for the least harm to your wallet.

In the guitars listed above, center position was off, and sliding to either side turned the pickup on. When both pickups were on, you got "in phase" or "out of phase" tones.

For a detailed diagram, see here:


Pay particular attention to the switches in the upper right-hand area, they show both schematic and layout at the same time. (BTW, this is Fender's original drawing.) But of course, if you need "more input", then by all means, don't hesitate to ask.

HTH


sumgai

[JohnH]

sumgai - what you point out can work fine for parallel combos. But the BM wiring uses only series combinations as stock (the only production guitar that I know of that does), and here we are trying to get a system with series and parallel.

Hence I will bet my mothers Xmas presents that on/off and phase, as part of a system with series/parallel wiring, can not be done with any reasonable switch (I reserve the right to define reasonable - in case she gives me something I want to keep). In any case, the six slide DPDT switches on a Brian May guitar are a key feature of it - and the existing switches can all be kept in the new enhanced design.

cheers
John

[sumgai]

John,

You mean to tell me that killer's guitar already has six (6), count 'em, six (6) slide switches installed? Well, dust my britches, I didn't know that! I was operating under the assumption that he was going to install more than the present number of them (presumably three (3)), but since you've straightened me out on that score....



~!~!~
killer,

Never mind!

STDH




sumgai




sorry that didn't help

[JohnH]

Dec 21, 2009 0:43:28 GMT -5 sumgai said:

John,

You mean to tell me that killer's guitar already has six (6), count 'em, six (6) slide switches installed?

In deed he do!!

Here is his curliness himself, looking momentarily puzzled as he tries to recall precisely which was the pickup that he put out of phase during a solo back in 1974.



John

[killheart7]

Yeah, it's a lot of switches. I love it to death, though. I actually find it very practical and have no trouble remembering what combinations/positions produce what sounds. They're all so distinct. It really clicks with me when things, such as switches, only have one function (like phase or on/off) each instead of combining uses.

In other words, I can more easily recall what a million switches will do than the million things one switch will do. I think of it as complication for practicality's sake.

Thanks a lot for the input, though, sumgai. You learn something every day, no?

[newey]

Killheart-

Let me just jump in here for a minute, although I thinks JohnH has matters well in hand. But consider this:

Do you insist on having all possible parallel combos of 3 pickups? Or do you just want the Strat tones of M+N and M+B? (The N+B combo isn't on a std Strat, but does give a Tele-ish sound).

If you can live without all the parallel combos, you many not need to add a switch at all. This is because, strictly speaking, on of the phase switches is redundant. 2 phase switches will give you all possible OOP combos of 3 pickups.

Now, there may be practical reasons for having 3 phase switches. With three switches, all 3 up or all 3 down are equivalent, and bring all 3 pups back into phase. If you tend to use all 3 pickups at once, it may prove easier to quickly assure that all three switches are one way or the other so as to bring all 3 back into phase quickly.

But you really only need 2 phase switches, so one could be eliminated and used to give you one pickup in series or parallel with the other selections. If the mid pup's phase switch were eliminated, it could be used to put the mid pup in parallel with the other 2, giving you the Strat parallel tones. And no extra switch and no holes to be drilled in your pride and joy!

[sumgai]

newey,

True, dat. I like the way you're thinking, even if you weren't thinking of earning a +1.



~!~!~!~
killer,

Learn sumpin' new? HellzBellz, I didn't even know he would stoop to using anything with single coils pups, let alone put his name to such a rig. And here I always thought he was Humbucker snob from the git-go...... Yer right, I did learn sumpin' new..... Now the question is, can I live with myself, after learnin' it? ;D




sumgai

[JohnH]

newey has offered a fine and insightful idea.

So, if the middle phase switch is reassigned, then when it is up, all the other switches operate as usual to give single and series combos with a full range of phase options.

When the 'ex mid phase' switch is down, and the mid pup is on, then you can have the B, N and BxN in parallel with it. Thats three good sounds that you didnt have. If you do this when B and N are both off, it would be silent however - I think that dead spot is not too bad.

It would be possible to make it so that when you engage the parallel mode, the mid pup is forced on, so you dont have to flick two switches.

KillHeart7, that is a good idea if you want to save adding an extra switch - what do you think? Or go with the extra toggle which keeps all the current functionality intact?

If you go with neweys idea, you can always change later - its just soldering.

Newey - I think the key to making your idea work best is to put the mid pup at the ground end of the chain, and connect one end to ground.

John

[killheart7]

newey:

Thanks for your input. What you describe is actually how I have the guitar wired right now. I did that a while back, and now I've finally come to the conclusion that I really do want a master series/parallel switch. Your thoughts are much appreciated though.

[JohnH]

OK, so lets stick with plan A, an extra 4-pole toggle, in the position that you indicated. (But I think we should at least draw a schematic of neweys version just to record it- there are more and more of these BM guitars around and that is a good way to get some extra parallel options)

The extra switch would be this sort:

www.voltelectronics.co.nz/media/catalog/product/cache/6/small_image/135x135/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/i/m/image_12972.gif

(cant get img tags to work)

Anyway, one more operational question, for the new series/parallel switch, which way should it operate? I see the other switches operate up and down, and down is on. So I think that the new toggle should also flick up and down, and down should be series, being the louder option (ie, more 'on')

Does that sound right?

When I first worked out the Tonemonster2 design with Runewalker, we had a long discussion about up and down - in the US, up is usually on, while in the UK, switches flick down for on. And the BM is decidedly British, so should maintain that convention!

Also, as a aside on phase switches, I read that BM uses all of them, even with just a single pickup. At the volume he plays, reversing the phase of a pickup inverts the feedback that he gets from the amp, resulting in......something! (my neighbours would not thank me for testing just what this would do)

happy Xmas

John

[killheart7]

Yes, I would prefer that the switch operated with "down" as the series position. It does make more sense because it is, as you said, the more "on" position of the two. Also, when it comes to optional switches, I always try to keep "down" as my default (most used) position.

Indeed flipping a phase switch does affect feedback tones. I don't know why, and the effect is slightly unpredictable, but inverting phase while sustaining feedback with a single pickup will often result in the feedback jumping either up or down an octave. You'll hear that a good bit in Brian's live playing.

Merry Christmas everybody, and thanks again for helping with this.

-Justin

[killheart7]

Will this switch do the job? I want to go ahead and get the switch in hand.

mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mountain-Switch/108-1M41T1B1M1QE-EVX/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvudeGI7i40XO%252bnGhp8Hy%252bJxJl%2ffWyiy6Y%3d

-Justin

[newey]

That'll do it- this is through a pickguard, correct? If not, you'd need a longer barrel.

[killheart7]

Yeah, it's just going through a pickguard.

[JohnH]

kh7 - just to let you know that Im now doing the wiring diagram in amongst other activities. Its a fiddly one, but should be ready in a day or two.

John

[killheart7]

Thanks, man. If all goes well I'd love to use my newly wired guitar at my band's next show. I might even get some video of me and the guitar in action to share with everyone.

[JohnH]

I thought you might like to see what you are in for.....



Its not finished, but all the main switch wiring is there, and it is not checked properly yet.

As you can see, it is likley to be a rats nest! - so I just wanted to check that you can follow it - I have tried to use colours and thicknesses to make each wire clearer. I think it will work fine, but there is scope for errors!

Also, with all these extra wires, it will be highly advisable to shield the inside - at least the back of the pick guard and preferably the whole cavity, and get that done before installing.

When is your next show? this is not a scheme to rush!
cheers
John

[killheart7]

Yes, I can follow it easily. You've done a great job at making it legible.

I will shield the cavity. I've been meaning to place an order for some parts, so I'll get that done and toss some shielding in the basket.

Our show is in a week. I have no intention of taking an iffy modification on stage with me, so I'm going to do this right and just use my other guitars if the Burns isn't ready yet. There is no rush.

-Justin

[JohnH]

OK, I think this might do it:



(EDIT: diagram amended 05/01/2010 in response to errors noted in following posts)

I'd be interested to know what value pots are used and if they are linear or log- but what ever is there now will work fine. Another mod I often do is to add a 220k resistor and 1nF cap, in paralle from hot to centre lug on the volume pot, to preserve treble as you reduce volume. There's no need to add this unless you wish to however, and I haven't shown it here.

The thick red and green wires indicate hot and ground connections - just for guidance, but any thickness of wire is fine.

I've checked it a few ways, no guarantees (the scheme is proven. but the diagram is new of course) but it is hopefully ready to go. So good luck! Sound clips, photos, build reports, comments etc, if possible, will be much appreciated, as will questions!

cheers
John

[killheart7]

Thanks so much, John. The shielding and switch are in the mail right now, so I'll jump on this as soon as they arrive. I'll post sound samples and a picture of the final product as soon as possible.

[killheart7]

The switch arrived today. Just waiting on the shielding...

[killheart7]

Finally. Shipping was dreadfully slow, certainly due to the holidays, but the shielding is here now and I can get started on the mod as soon as I get a spare moment. I'll keep everyone posted.