Brian May Red special Series/Parallel

[sumgai]

(EDIT: Before anyone goes back to look (at the previous page, unfortunately), John has fixed the error(s). I'm leaving this intact so his following message makes sense to future readers.)

errrr, John?

Those three phase-reversal switches...... don't they look to you like they may be "incapable of meeting design specs"? My first clue was the Middle pup's switch isn't like the other two....





sumgai

[JohnH]

Ha! I was just waiting to see if anyone was paying attention!

Actually, thankyou and that is a fair cop. I spent a fair amount of time checking the complicated bits and messed up the simple parts!

I will change the diagram...

(Done, diagram changed in previous post - I noted that it had been edited following he errors found)

cheers

John

[killheart7]

The wiring is complete, and the mod is successful. Thanks so much for helping me along with this. The parallel tones are strat-like, but with the character of the Burns Tri-Sonics adding a dimension not normally present in strats.

I'll start making sound samples soon. I plan on only posting the new sounds, since the Red Special's series and out-of-phase tones can be found elsewhere online. However, if you guys really want me to, I can make samples of the stock sounds as well.

Thanks again,
-Justin

[sumgai]

Justin,

It's always a good idea to compare apples to apples. Those "stock" sounds posted elsewhere on the web may have been recorded in an entirely different manner than you will do your recording, and that in turn will very probably affect the tone that we listeners "perceive". We'd then be thinking "apples", but hearing "oranges", if you get my drift.

Please, if it's not too much trouble and/or time, include the whole range, even if some of the tones are very Strat-like. Most of us know what a three-pickup guitar 'should' sound like, but again, yours will have it's own unique character, and it would remove all questions if we were to listen to "series" and "parallel" combos coming from the same axe.

Thanks.

Oh, and please put them in the Sound Gallery, and just link to them here in this thread. Thanks (again).




sumgai

[JohnH]

Hey well done, that was quick work! Did the new switch fit in OK?

On sounds, OK, there has been some debate as to exactly how many different combos you now have - lest say several dozen!.

But for sound samples, Id be really intersted to hear how the sound changes when you switch from S to P - so if possible, how about a couple of single coil sounds as a reference, then bridge and middle in series and parallel, neck and middle series and parallel, and an out of phase of your choice, series and parallel? You can do it in one take, just start some simple rhthym riff and flick through them with a bar or two of each one, nothing complex needed!

cheers

John

[killheart7]

Alright guys, just for YOU I'll do the full range of sounds. That's a whooooole lot of sounds, but I'll get down to it in the next day or two. I'm going to have to chart out all of them so that I don't miss any...

[killheart7]

Oh, and the switch fits perfectly in it's new space. Very comfortable to use, and does not interfere with my volume knob usage. I like to use the side of my hand to work the volume knob, rather than my fingers, so non-interference with that technique was a prerequisite factor in the switch's placement. I'll include a photo of the new exterior with the sound samples.

[JohnH]

Well, you have 128 different switch positions, and setting aside feedback effects caused by different phase settings, I make it that you have 24 different sounds, one of which is off.

3 single pickups
3 pairs of pickups, x2 for series/parallel and x2 again for in or out of phase = 12
all three pups, in phase or with one out of phase with other two(=4), x2 for series/parallel = 8
all off
total = 24

Grateful to hear any of them, but as I noted, I'd be very happy with a reduced selection that covers the main range.

Also questions: Do you know what pot values are used for volume and tone? I usually use 500k where series wiring is involved, but Strats come with 250k pots. I wonder what Brians dad thought about that when he first built it ...

John

[killheart7]

I've never noticed the pot values while working on the guitar, but I found a forum elsewhere where someone mentioned their Burns Brian May Signature had 250k pots. That being said, I have no idea what were in the original guitar.

[killheart7]

I've made recordings of all of the guitar's settings. I just need to post them here. I wanted to ask you guys if there is a preferred hosting site for this stuff. Otherwise, I'll just put them in a ZIP file and upload them to MegaUpload.

[JohnH]

whatever works for you is fine. I use soundclick, but a zipfile seems like a neat way to post them too.

[killheart7]

Sorry about the delay. Here's the link to the sound files. I'm also posting them in the sound gallery board. Thanks so much to everybody, especially JohnH, for their input and help with this project.

Each sound file starts by playing a passage in series using the settings listed in the file's title, and then plays the same passage with those settings in parallel.
www.megaupload.com/?d=VYFHWTC8

-Justin

[JohnH]

thanks for posting - im on vacation right now, but I 'll look forard to listening to them.

John

[JohnH]

Right I listened to them - very nice job. Tasteful playing, clearly recorded, and the series then parallel format really highlights the difference for equivalent settings. +1 to you.

I think that is one of the best demos of series/parallel that I have heard.

cheers
John

[killheart7]

Thank you so much, John. I've never done demo recordings before, so it means a lot to hear some kind words. I'm especially happy that you liked them, since you made this mod possible.

I forgot to mention how I recorded the samples. Should anyone care, here's what I used:

Guitar - Burns Brian May Signature with Master Series/Parallel Switch Mod
Amp - 1962 Gibson Falcon
Microphone - Samson C02 Condenser
Microphone Preamp - M-Audio Audio Buddy
Interface - Delta 44 Breakout Box and Sound Card
Software - Audacity

The amp's tone knob was set to 1.5 on the treble side (between one- and two- o'clock) and a small amount of the amp's reverberation was used.

Thanks again,
-Justin

[guitardabbler]

JohnH,
I saw the diagram you made above for the Brian May circuit adding a Series/Parallel using 4pdt switch. That was great how you were able to make that. I want to do the same thing except I plan to use three dpdt On-Off-On switches for the pickups on-off/phase. So that would be 3 dpdt On-Off-On switches for the pickup on-off/phase and one 4pdt On-On switch for the Series/Parallel.

I have looked over the Brian May circuit and have figured out how to use the 3 switches instead of 6 but when I look at your diagram, you have changed the wiring paths in a way that I don't understand how it works

I was wondering if you would create another diagram to help me accomplish what I've described above? Hopefully, it too can be done with the easy to find 4pdt switch. There is an online diagram using 6pdt but as the other user stated those are difficult to find such that they would work well in a guitar cavity/pickguard.

By the way, my guitar is Strat style guitar with single coil pickups. I'm using 250K pots. If you decide to create the diagram, could you include the resister/cap series circuit for tone bleed?
Thank you.

[JohnH]

Hi gd, and welcome to GN2. Thank you for your interest in the enhanced Brian May design.

Unfortunately, what you ask is not possible, or else I would have done it before. The switching in my design is very different to the original, although it functions the same with the addition of parallel options.

The functions of phase reverse and on/off, which both as you can see, need two poles switches, cannot be combined into a single two pole switch even if it has three positions.

Your options are:

1. Build the whole design with 7 switches - and you can use toggles instead of slide switches and you will need 6 standard two position dpdt's and the 4pdt

2. Build the design with fewer phase switches. I suggest that one phase switch on the neck is sufficient to get a good selection of out of phase sounds. For the others, delete the phase switches and wire directly to the on/off switches. I have built that on a Strat style guitar, as have several others and it works very well. See this thread:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=3121

and also Wolfs site for a diagram of exactly that system:

www.1728.com/guitar2a.htm

3. You could build my full BM design, combining the phase and on/off, but each switch is now a 4pdt on/on/on, which are the same size as the two position 4pdts (ie twice as large), and are rather expensive. Each pickup switch would have three positions, off, on out of phase, on. I'm not sure if all those wide switches will fit well in a Strat however.

My suggestion is that option 2 is best - we know this works well and the two position switches are economical and nice and positive in their action.

cheers

John

[guitardabbler]

Hi John,
Thanks for your quick reply.
I found the Brian May circuit at www.treblebooster.com/brian_may_pickup_mod.htm.

The switches he used were DPDT ON-ON switches.
If you were to use DPDT ON-OFF-ON switches, you could eliminate the 3 on-off switches because the 3 switches that would be used for the phase switching have an Off position. I drew a diagram but I don't know how to include it in this post as I don't have web space to upload it to.

[JohnH]

Agreed, but you cant then add the series/parallel switch because it is a very different circuit

[guitardabbler]

Oh OK, I thought you were saying the On-Off/Phase couldn't be done with 3 DPDT switches. There is a 6PDT circuit diagram on the same site I mentioned but I haven't yet found a usable version of that switch. Again, thanks for your quick replies

[guitardabbler]

I realized an inaccuracy in my previous post, the 3 switch Brian May circuit would need DPDT ON-ON-ON switches. The output would be connected to the center terminals and the center ON position would allow the series circuit to pass through the switches that were bypassing that pickup. Wanted to correct that inaccuracy.

Thank you for the link to the Tone Monster 2 circuit.

[guitardabbler]

Hi John,
In looking around trying to find BM circuits that also have the serial/parallel, yours does seem to be the best way to go. I'm going to have to get another pick guard tho because I don't want to drill that many holes in my current one. It has a personally created paint job that I don't want to drill any more holes into. That's why I was trying to find a circuit with less switches.

In using your circuit, I want to make sure I get the right switches. The 3 phase change and the 3 on/off are DPDT ON ON? And the 4PDT is also ON ON?
Thank you.

[JohnH]

Yes, the six dpdt's and the 4pdt are just the basic two position on/on types. As noted, you can choose to have fewer phase switches if you prefer
J.

[guitardabbler]

Thanks John

[newey]

It has a personally created paint job that I don't want to drill any more holes into. That's why I was trying to find a circuit with less switches.

GD- Earlier in this thread, I mentioned eliminating the mid pup phase switch, and instead using it as a series/parallel switch for the mid pup. This gives the 2 Strat sounds (M+B and M+N), plus gives N*(M+B), and with using only the stock switches. I throw this in the mix since you said you didn't want to add any holes.

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=4650

[guitardabbler]

Hi Newey,
I appreciate your comment, if I'm reading correctly your referring to a 6 switch setup?
My current pickguard has 3 holes in it, they are setup as simple on/off switches. I did a special paint job on it that I didn't want to drill into any further.

I do like JohnH's circuit, I think I'm gonna go ahead and use that with a new pickguard.
I found these and think I might go with them.
store.guitarfetish.com/bstse6wiki.html
(Scroll to bottom of page)
Again thanks for your reply

[newey]

Sorry, I was focused on the BM guitar which has six switches, and forgot yours doesn't.

My mod would, however, work with the Guitarfetish pickguard, which has 6.

That must be a new item, I order from GuitarFetish a lot and hadn't seen that before.

[guitardabbler]

Do you have any experience with their bodies and necks? Just curious if they are any good or not, the prices are so cheap on some of their stuff.

[newey]

No bodies or necks from them, I've bought lots of GFS pickups and various hardware pieces, pickguards and so on. Their customer service is excellent and everything I've bought has been exactly ads advertised, and decent quality.

What the quality of their bodies or necks is, I can't say. Buying a neck sight unseen is an iffier proposition than a body- you can pretty much know what you're getting with a body. If it's cheap, it's not one piece but several, and it's probably some softer wood or perhaps plywood of some sort.

I haven't looked at their return policy. But if it's an "any reason" policy, I'd say go for it, see what you get, and if it's not to your liking send it back.

[katillac]

Dec 26, 2009 20:32:23 GMT -5 JohnH said:

OK, I think this might do it:



(EDIT: diagram amended 05/01/2010 in response to errors noted in following posts)

In the above diagram, the switches at the bottom are for in/out of phase, right? Which way is in phase if the toggle is flipped up? I know that connects the middle and bottom wires.

For the on/off switches at the top of the diagram, are the off and on labels to designate that they're on/off switches, or the actual switching, ie, on at the bottom (toggle up) and off at the top (toggle down)?

On the parallel/series switch, same question. Is toggle up for series and toggle down for parallel?

Am I just confusing myself by being afraid to do things wrong and making it more difficult for myself? Thanks in advance, guys =)