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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 5:24:33 GMT -5
Hello guys again! I think i have a sustain problem with my new parts-caster build. I think it sustains less than my other strat-like Aria guitar. The Aria unplugged can hold a note for about 4-5 secs, while the new parts-caster barely 3-4 secs.
The new parts-caster's tremolo bridge, feels, looks and most probably is ... cheap. Light and cheap. The tremolo block is ... tiny!! And the screws of the saddles are so loose that every time i change strings or otherwise service the guitar, i have to re-adjust the action. In short i believe i have a serious issue in this aspect.
What would you propose as a decent (and economical) upgrade?
I bought the body 100 $, the neck 100 $, the machine heads 20 $, and i am currently in the process of pup upgrade. (Thanks yew!). So i guess the upgrade should not exceed the value of 40-50 $. and in any case it will be postponed for April, since i already spent the budget for March ;D
Any ideas?
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 3, 2011 7:19:08 GMT -5
Going cheap on the bridge is one of the worst things you can do. A cheap sloppy bridge will go a long way to kill your tone.
It's just physics. Anything that allows the energy of the string to dissipate quicker will decrease your sustain...IE the nut, frets, bridge or overall tightness of the construction.
A new tone block and\or saddles may help the situation.
Unfortunately, replacing your existing cheap bridge with another cheap bridge probably won't bring joy to Mudville...
What kind of trem-leo routings do you have currently?
HTC1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 7:25:14 GMT -5
Thanx Cynical, i dont quite understand the "trem-leo" routings question. Can you please be more precise?, and i will measure and give all relevant numbers later when i get home. What i know for sure is that the E-E spacing is 53 mm exactly. And its the 6-holes-screws type.
Now as far as price is concerned, those wilkinson bridges are sold for about 50 Euro/$ which is ok.
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 3, 2011 7:41:39 GMT -5
Now as far as price is concerned, those wilkinson bridges are sold for about 50 Euro/$ which is ok. Compared to what you have now the Wilkinson will be a noticeable and welcome improvement. The screw holes should line up, but a quick e-mail to the seller to confirm your existing dimensions would be a good idea. Down the road you can always pop for the larger tone block... HTC1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 8:01:48 GMT -5
Now as far as price is concerned, those wilkinson bridges are sold for about 50 Euro/$ which is ok. Compared to what you have now the Wilkinson will be a noticeable and welcome improvement. The screw holes should line up, but a quick e-mail to the seller to confirm your existing dimensions would be a good idea. Down the road you can always pop for the larger tone block... HTC1 Thanx, i gotta look into this... BTW which are the important and crucial routing parameters to be aware of?
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 3, 2011 11:21:10 GMT -5
Generally, if the replacement trem-leo fits the identical dimension to the original you're good. Some imports, OEM licensed versions and the Floyd type require different routings. So does Kahler, but that's a different beast all together. Below are, I believe, the types of Wilkinson's you're looking at. Double check these off of what you have and go accordingly. HTC1
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Post by JFrankParnell on Mar 3, 2011 11:49:52 GMT -5
I love my Babicz Full Contact Hardware trem: I've set it up floating since this pic was taken. www.fullcontacthardware.comWhen I installed it, i did a before/after recording of sustain, and it did indeed sustain longer. You could go out for a bite and 'aaahhhhh' you'd still be hearing that one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 2:37:07 GMT -5
JFrankParnell, Babic FCH looks great, but breaks the bank in my case ;D @cynical, thanx for posting those. My peculiarity lies in the fact that my string spacing is 10.6mm, and also this is the spacing between screws and screw holes, so i could live with a total 53 or 54 mm E-E spacing. But anyway i think i can put some wood into the holes, glue them in, and then re-drill new holes. I have done that with the neck. Also, i read somewhere that, the wood<->wood contacts or wood<->metal contacts should be completely paint-free, and i find this a good idea.
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 4, 2011 8:23:01 GMT -5
JFrankParnell, Babic FCH looks great, but breaks the bank in my case ;D I found some other stuff to break the bank, too... The Super Vee if your truss rod adjustment is at the typical Strat location at the neck heel... ...or the Blade Runner for everyone else... I like the spring steel idea to eliminate the friction of metal and wood as in standard blade type trem-leo systems. ...and the Blade Runner will only set you back a quick $150.00 US... Something else I found that was interesting was the the Resonari Tone Block. And this bad boy will only set you back a quick $100.00 US...unless you've got a friend with a machine shop... So, for 6 strings you'll only be off about 1 mm... I wouldn't even worry about that. Any concerns would be more aesthetic versus functional. And drilling out the existing holes slightly for a stock size hardwood dowel is your best option...if you have to re-drill your trem-leo holes. On the wood to wood, as in the neck pocket, then I'd agree. As far as the trem-leo...that never bothered Leo very much... Besides, the more you use the whammy it'll take the paint off anyways... Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 9:44:04 GMT -5
My cheap hum canceling mini humbucker rails just arrived!! So the duty calls ;D, i'll report about them in the pups section and then get back to this thread when the time is due for bridge - tremolo work. Thanx guys a lot!
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Post by sumgai on Mar 4, 2011 12:46:36 GMT -5
c1,
(Warning, mild thread hi-jack coming....)
That was one whale of a lot of research there, buddy. I think I'll promote you to Chief Googler for this forum, as your google-fu certainly outstrips anybody else around here! ;D
And thanks for all that. Even as I don't enjoy contemplating returning to the fold, so to speak, I do enjoy the idea of having/building the ultimate machine that I had so long lusted after.
</hi-jack>
~!~!~!~!~
pyrros,
I'm not sure what a bank is, in your terms (although since you've got kids, I'm sure I can guess!), but sometimes, just once in awhile, you find that the most mundane thing will actually do the job you wanted done, and for a price that you can live with. Sadly, the way you find that item is littered with false trails, which means that no matter how well you do your research, you still end up spending more than you thought you would, trying out all the cheap and/or neat stuff along the way.
There's no easy way around that but to listen to, and confer with, as many of your compatriots as you can. Even then, they all are reporting what worked/didn't work for them..... and they're not quite the same as you, are they? Listen to the undertones of what they say - "it's a quality unit" doesn't mean "it's the best thing I've ever used".
By now I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say - that you're gonna have to settle for some level of what you want, and that's in compromise with what you can afford to spend along the way, looking for that thing you want. I wish you the best of luck my friend, and unless you're completely off your rocker, then I think you'll find it. And hopefully, well before you've broken the piggy bank. ;D
HTH
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 4, 2011 16:16:49 GMT -5
I think I'll promote you to Chief Googler for this forum, as your google-fu certainly outstrips anybody else around here! ;D Hey, for as many years as I've done IT Support my Google-Fu is the only thing keeping me employed... And pyrros, while a lot of what I posted is pie in the sky, the central thought is the same. Buying cheap in a hurry only means you'll be settling for less then you want, and in time will necessitate buying it again. And anyone who knows me will tell you I am the last person on the planet to pay retail for anything... eBay, Craigslist (or the EU equivalent) and spreading the word in the local musician's community can score you some nice equipment for a fraction of its original cost. For example, somewhere in the EU is somebody who stripped the stock trem off their guitar for a Wilkinson. Down the road they upgraded to a Babicz or Blade-Runner and now have the Wilkinson sitting in a box somewhere collecting dust. Finding that person and making a good faith offer gets you a better trem for a fraction of list price, clears out some junk from their stash, and all is right with the world. Patience, research and opportunity. Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 0:50:56 GMT -5
There's no easy way around that but to listen to, and confer with, as many of your compatriots as you can. Even then, they all are reporting what worked/didn't work for them..... and they're not quite the same as you, are they? Listen to the undertones of what they say - "it's a quality unit" doesn't mean "it's the best thing I've ever used". SG Thx, sorry to get political, but my copatriots are not the friendliest people in the world. They have huge amounts of over-self-esteem, and in most cases their real value is limited. Don't get me wrong, you will find tones of talent in Greece and generally in the balkans, however the system just cannot deliver. Before the crisis, prices were much higher than anywhere in the world (maybe except Tokyo/NewYork/Moscow/London), so that made things rather hard to get. And the second-hand market mentality is not at all developed or endorsed. I was literally bashed in a greek guitarist forum, just because i bought stuff from China. This is considered a henious crime!!! One guy could hear the "dead spots" on my cgeap chinese neck, just by the youtube video!!!! The guy didn't care about the nut, about the bridge, about low action or uneven leveled frets or anything!!! He *knew* that any little "problem" he might hear, was from the dead spots in the neck!! And the guy is supposed to be semi-professional luthier!! Could you hang out with ppl like this? Or even trust their opinion? Anyways, here i have found the best community, with this fine balance between quantity and quality and with a super high signal to noise ration. I know i do not contribute much as i should, but lets hope things will get better in this aspect, after i get my strat completely perfect!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 0:54:24 GMT -5
Buying cheap in a hurry only means you'll be settling for less then you want, and in time will necessitate buying it again. Sure, haste is the worse advisor. You are absolutely right. Buying cheap in a hurry will end up in buying again. I see you are an IT guy just like me! What to you do? I am doing DBs/J2EE/Unix that kind of stuff.
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Post by 4real on Mar 5, 2011 16:23:37 GMT -5
Interesting thread and observations, the internet is full of such attitudes and we all do it to some extent or could be perceived that way.
Don't believe the hype, but think about the basic principles and what you are trying to achieve. Almost everything is made in china or korea or indonesia and there is no rational reason to think that they couldn't build something to any quality should they choose. The same attitude was around post war with the whole 'made in japan' thing, but they are world leaders in many technolgies. But there are 'market forces' and people want cheap, and as always, you get what you pay for!
Still...say with a guitar neck, it is a piece of wood, carved to shape, fretted and put to use. A super cheap neck may well have less quality and stability of neck wood, or a cheap fret job...but in the end, it is a chunk of wood, carved by machines to what ever profile is programmed into the thing.
A side story, when i was a teen, i had the idea that all i needed was one incredible name brand instrument, 'tweaked' to be 'perfect' and to practice real hard. I still own the guitar though it gets played rarely...a '69 gibson LP. In the day (late seventies) the 'wisdom' was brass nuts and such and replacement bridges...this along with jumbo frets and a few other modes (dual coil splitters) were done. The bridge was not a good idea, more to make it easier for the fretter i think (cast compared to the original TOM and not possible to return to stock) and the brass nut, well it works...but these days brass is know to be a sustain/tone sink and no one would be doing that these days...LOL...and of course, all this in the effort for more 'sustain, like you really need that on a decent LP anyway...and times were changing, dire straits had come out and sustain was no longer the main game in town...
So, I went through a period of modding and playing super cheap guitars, but then this can only take you so far. I did mod some super cheap standard fender type bridges and such with strings saver saddles that were great, and did work on the other end of the guitar, using plumbing washers behind the machine heads to produce a stagger and let the string trees rock.
These days, I am a big defender of cheaper guitars, and modding them up to a high standard and unique in looks and function to my needs. Two are squiers, the strat from indonesia and top loaded mahogany something that fender itself wouldn't do, but is a really nice guitar. The bridge a two point trem and very good with no need for mods. The $100 locking tuners though...well, they are good. My tele, similarly equipped LSR and, locking nuts and kahler trems far exceed the cost of the whole guitar. My LP is super cheap, but it is mahogany with a thick maple top and looks good (even if the finish is a bit brittle) and the fretting and neck very decent...perhaps an epiphone kind of quality.
A decent bridge is important but on a budget of $20 you cant expect much. "sustain" has always been a loaded concept like "tone" and who is to say what is 'perfect'. If you used rubber saddles, it would absorb a lot of the strings energy, machine it from say steel, the opposite effect. Les Paul early on made a guitar from a railway rail...now there is sustain...LOL!
Of course, a sustainer will provide infinite sustain...LOL...but then people suggest it doesn't sound 'natural'..but surely that's missing the point, such sustain is obviously not normal, the criteria should be is it musically useful.
For a bridge, I'd be looking for something that is solid, comfortable, looks good and has little friction. On a budget, there are a few about that would do the job...everything above that is improvements in tiny amounts.
For years, the best strats were 'made in japan' and I would argue that many of the high end squiers were above the basic quality of their USA counterparts and certainly are good enough till you are a 'superstar'...other than the brand name, most people really don't know...and the vast proportion of the population (read: girls) seriously don't know the difference between squier and fender or anything else, they only acknowledge the shape at best! Many times, it's the colour and the sound that comes out which is entirely up to the player. Run things through decent amplification which is a huge part of any 'tone' and especially effects like distortion...well, the differences in sound is kind of mute.
Then again, a strat was not really designed to be a 'sustainy' guitar...it is virtually a hollowbody when you think about it...huge amounts of wood is missing under the scratch plate and it the spring cavity and the whole bridge is mounted on springs, the neck attached with bolts...the very opposite of a guitar like an LP where sustain is the goal. But that is not a bad thing. If you really want to add some 'sustain' you might consider a compressor even...or take advantage of the percussive nature of souch guitars like tele's a strat's which have a very quick 'attack' and focus less on the 'decay' of a note.
There tends to be a cultural aspect in a lot of these things, patriotism, hype, brand identity and such...but better to have some aims of your own and not concentrate on 'bragging rights' and put together an instrument that works for you.
This forum does tend to swing the other way, and it is a bit of fresh air I agree. People want to try something, no matter how 'far out' it might seem, and people try and see how it could be made to happen. It is not that the 'perfect guitar' has phase switches all over it, or where the thing was made...but the end results that count.
Plus, it is worth taking note of people who's reputation and living is based on guitars...not manufacturers or sellers, but people who really play, now and in history. Hendrix played at a time when fenders were going down hill, he played the things upside down...but really, he was using those bent saddles and standard pups...SRV was infected by some of that retro mojo, but he too used fairly stock trad bridges...mark knophler made his sound from traditional fenders, but his guitar of choice a pensa/shur with floyd and emgs. It is what works for you, there is a quality issue on the very low end, but as you get more expensive, the amount of gain is smaller and smaller. Is there even a 'perfect' guitar? You will never please those kinds of fanboy forums you know.
I went the other way, a single guitar is not 'perfect' but works for me, and another may be required for a different feel or sound perhaps...hence i figured that a decent version of the 'big three' (tele, strat, LP) would cover all the bases and I could have that for less than the cost of a one of the real things and set up as I want and with quality parts to my specs. For me, sustain is less of a requirement, it is more about being noise free (so I use noiseless pups generally and good wiring) and good tuning stability (so the whole trem system from tuners, nut to saddles). I want it to look good and 'familiar' but also unique in sound and look in relatively small ways. Basically, you want a guitar that feels good to play and works for you.
You may find that the "perfect guitar" you build today is no longer 'perfect' in a year or two's time...get back to the basics and spend a reasonable sum on quality where it counts (the bridge obviously does matter, where ever it is made) but understand that if you are only paying $20 on tuners, there is a limit to what you are going to get and eventually, an up grade might well be advantageous. Or, you could go the Rory Gallager route and have a completely trashed instrument with one odd tuner and lots of character...and make amazing music with it!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2011 1:15:35 GMT -5
4real thanx, what a great article! Or to be precise, another great article (and ultra long as usual!!, but i read it all, since all the family are sleeping and i have time!) I am very happy cause yesternight, i tried those ultra cheap mini-humbucker rails, and they worked like a charm! I agree 100% that the graph of improved quality/money spent is a logarithmic function like: Two things you said got me under thought: 1) brass nut, you said it is a tone/sustain sink... hmm i was under the way of installing a brass nut as my next mod. I think it will counter-kill all my sustain project.... thanx for that... any pointers as to why brass nut kills sustain, when in fact all frets are just a similar nut? 2) i bought the machine heads 20 GBP, but they are wilkinson and the more expensive i found on northwestguitars.com at ebay.co.uk . They are locking (simple - with two holes), and pretty stable. Why would those machine heads kill my tone/sustain? + i dont have out of tune problems. My strings stay in tune no matter how much i use the tremolo. My machine heads are those : www.northwestguitars.co.uk/product/Wilkinson_EZ-Lock_Machine_Heads_WJN-07As far as the bridge is concerned, i guess a 2-point wilkinson of the range of 40-60 GBP/EUR/USD will do its job. I dont play ultra fancy stuff , neither am i jazz player or anything. I think what do you think?
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Post by 4real on Mar 6, 2011 1:47:12 GMT -5
Oh...well the nut thing isn't so important, brass is a relatively soft metal but good for shaping and this really only effects the open strings...so don't be too alarmed. many people favour brass as being closer in sound to the fretted notes and I still have a brass nut on the old LP...but it was just as example of excessive hype at the time.
I tried ezlock, but was not impressed. The two hole thing is really just how one should lock strings in normal tuners, but they are quite different from a locking and high quality tuner...but if they are working, that is the main thing...they are not bad. I got a lot of my parts from the STRATosphere that part out fenders and at auction you can sometimes get a bargain that way. Both my squiers have fender branded locking, staggered schallers...two have pickups from there too that were new, but far below retail.
As far as 'sustain' it depends what you mean by that...but one thing that does make a difference is the mass at the head end and neck stiffness for instance. On my new LP I used a thick aluminium plate to make roller trees so there is a straight string pull across the graphite nut (as it has a trem)...this increased stiffness and mass and created more body. You wouldn't want to over do such things to make things neck heavy, but products such as the 'fat head' were along those lines. I noticed an huge difference on my acoustic when i changed from light open tuners to heavy closed back types.
I like a two point fulcrum trem, you can see mine in the gallery, mine is set quite high but it is stiff, has a tremsetter in it but that is just a part of the set up.
As for the rails, for high gain stuff they are a good design, low string pull and the narrow 'window' between blades means more 'cut' generally. Won't give a 'single coils sound' as stacked designs intend to do, but that is not the point...not a lot to be gained from splitting them either I don't feel.
Artec (where most of this stuff comes from, even if re-branded with implied USA origin) make a quality product that works. My LP HB's are no doubt from there. They might not have the special something that some name brands but they are generally close and work...and the prices are right. If you are into playing with distortion and such, well a lot of the sound is coming out of the effect and amps...if you use digital stuff, a lot of the quality of any guitar seems to get lost for some reason.
Anyway, carry on....all that matters is that you get a guitar that works for you and upgrade as you see fit. There is a difference with some of the higher end stuff, but how far does one need to go really...a good looking, playing and sounding guitar is enough to convince most...if you get to rock star status, people will be throwing guitars at you...LOL...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2011 5:22:01 GMT -5
4real, very nicely said once again!!! will try the brass thing some day soon, just because my current nut looks like garbage, after the many sandings, filings, soda powder, super glue mods!! (all these in order to avoid spring trees which affect staying in tone while using tremolo)
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Post by 4real on Mar 6, 2011 7:16:47 GMT -5
I like my LSR on my tele...it is built though for fender width necks which could be a problem and is non reversible and requires a careful route with a dremel...it fitted on my tele with half a mill each side hanging over and the string spread worked well
My strat has the original squier one would you believe...skinny white thing, well cut (high end squier) but seems to be ok...on a strat, often you need string trees though...mine are rollers..as the sympathetic vibrations behind the nut can do odd things. The LSR has rubber pads that allows you to ditch them all together. A test would be to wrap a sock or something around the head and see if that makes a difference...a cheap way is too losen traditional ones almost to no tension, perhaps a bit of a spacer...but to let the tree rock on the screw with the strings rather than them being dragged through it...oe set up some kind of damper just behind the nut perhaps.
I used a graph tech tusq on the LP which now comes in white or black....was good but a bit of work filing it down right and not too far...
One great thing about LSR's that would be nice to see in some other kind of nuts...is that the thing is screwed down and comes with spacers for height adjustment...so no filing and adjustable...however, that routing of the fretboard is a bit too much to ask really, but a necessity with any roller nut system...and won't like strings thicker than 10's generally. They are good though, nice open string sound, absolutely no friction or trees required with staggered nuts.
Brass is quite good...on my LP it has lasted...oh, over 25 years! But, I dare say with a trem guitar, the wound strings would most likely saw through it and the things corrode. Might get the gutiar out again soon and take some pics for you guys...it is a real war horse and wen through some mods in the 'brass era' and has kind of aged nicely...the pickup rings are brass with gold....but goes green with a bit of wear and sweat from playing it live for 20 years!
But guitars tend to evolve till they find their own equilibrium I've found. On is rarely enough...but perhaps I have too many...there was something cool about having the one instrument for all those years even if it does weigh like two house bricks!
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Post by newey on Mar 6, 2011 8:25:49 GMT -5
I'm also a big fan of the roller string trees, I have them on all my trem-equipped guitars.
If you don't want to go the route of one of the locking nut systems, the roller trees do make a difference in tuning and, I think, in string life.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2011 12:55:42 GMT -5
Also i think pups and the strength that they pull the strings, or just the power of the pups affect the sustain in huge ways. After i got rid of the "stock" cheap single coils and installed the artect rails, the sustain went off the roof!
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Post by 4real on Mar 6, 2011 19:44:42 GMT -5
A single coil pup has a single pole pointing at the string in a very narrow "window' or pint. Close, the magnet will pull on the string at nodes or reduce the vibration...an HB has two opposite poles attracted to themselves very close together (especially with a rail) and so there is a kind of equalizing force both N and S and the effect is less if not at all...they can be adjusted pretty close will little ill effect. Look up 'stratitis'.
But I am not entirely sure what you mean by 'sustain'...is it simply the length of time that a note takes to fade...a string will mechanically vibrate for as long as it does, less dampening forces. You may have experienced some dampening from other pups, but unless close, don't make a huge difference. If you are talking volume over the life of a note, a more powerful/sensitive pickup will sense the vibrations and have them louder longer...but the string is not actually sustaining longer than it physically can do.
The bridge is a critical factor in dampening strings as that point is always fixed. A nut, only when open strings are used. The neck stiffness is a big thing as are the neck joins, even frets...technique plays a big role as well, if you dampen the string behind the fretted note this will aid things a lot...a good exercise is to set up a tight string or look very carefully at the guitar as a system and try various experiments to see what will enhance, or not, aspects that you desire while you are playing.
Remember we all carry our own personal biases and especially when we invest a lot in something like pups and what we expect from them...it's easy to convince oneself about a lot of things...it is after all the reason that there is so much 'mojo' out there to make things desirable and that people who pay the price will speak glowingly about their purchases (often without anything to compare them to but some very low quality pups of a completely different type). A for instance would be PAF sound, how many people hare really had some time with their playing with a good PAF original? Very few...and the whole thing about the early pups were they were hand wound to inconsistent ways, everyone was a bit different, some sounded magic, some were really not it...they are all PAF's...in the end, such talk means nothing. All that counts is that they work (any pup will work) and that they make a sound that serves the instrument, the player and the music being played with it.
But you know, lots of people have different ideas about such things as 'sustain' or 'tone'...give someone endless sustain and they are still not satisfied as I know only to well. You want to consider the whole note of guitar and what you intend to play with it. Something like a tele has a very sharp loud attack and a softer length to the sustain, a strat a bit less in length generally, but a slightly softer attack, an LP generally a smooth slow attack that 'blooms' and stays fairly 'full bodied' throughout. This leads to 'tone' which are the mix of harmonics, some pups are going to be more sensitive to different harmonic frequencies and bring them out a bit more, but the guitar will dampen differently at different frequencies too, a lot has to do with the construction and hardware. But, there is a misunderstanding perhaps of what people really want and how to get it, if you are shredding fast, you are likely to want a faster attack than if you were going for a slower slash type approach with long notes...and everywhere in between. The interaction with effects is important too, if you use a lot of distortion, you might need less mud and a faster sharper attack perhaps to convincingly play at speed...but then if the notes are flying, sustain is not an issue. If you are into a more percussive kind of thing like a SRV perhaps, maybe you want a sharp attack with less length to the notes...a lot depends on what you want the guitar to do. Hence the beauty of having a couple of guitars, they tend to get you to play in a different way and get one out of ruts...as well as being handy when you are tinkering with your main axe or break a string!
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Post by JFrankParnell on Mar 6, 2011 22:10:36 GMT -5
speaking of pups magnetically sucking sustain away (stratitius), what about lace sensor pups? Theyre supposed to have more sustain cuz of their different design?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 1:44:22 GMT -5
Thanx 4real, informative once again! But I am not entirely sure what you mean by 'sustain'...is it simply the length of time that a note takes to fade... i mean smth like this. It is from an old yugoslav rock band performing a traditional song : oops i just saw its a gibson!! This guitarist commonly played a strat.
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Post by 4real on Mar 7, 2011 4:07:01 GMT -5
Oh dear...well that is a classic 'sustainer' and not the guitar or the pickups...noytice how it is a relatively clean sound and the control and that the notes don't fade at all, 'blooming' into a controlled harmonic.
At the very least a feedback effect. You can get this with a hollowboddy type of guitar that will feedback more easily, but getting that kind of predictable control with traditional methods is very hard to achieve without a sustaining device.
One way that you can do it, and I was messing with the other day without too much volume...is push your headstock against your amp cabinet or better still the actual speaker cabinet. This will send the vibrations through the neck and so the string providing a controlled feedback effect a bit like that...
So, it's not the pups or the guitar really but a feedback effect and to get that kind of un=natural sustain (infinite) you need a sustainer or perhaps an ebow.
If using a sustainer, the note will last regardless of the bridge or anything else about the guitar really...though a decent guitar is always a good thing!
If you look in the gallery at my tele i think there is a link to a sound clip of my sustainer guitar...but there are a few ways one could approach it.
Any 'normal' note is going to have an attack and a decay making up it's envelope. A sustainer though has no decay in the normal sense other than physically stopping the string. You can also get a very slow attack if you simply let the sustainer drive the string, and if cut short at the end, can even sound 'backwards'...
It could be done with plain feedback hendrix style, but there is something about the control and tone that screams sustainer or the old headstock on the amp routine.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 6:03:40 GMT -5
The first note of the above song, i can already make it sound exactly like that, with my current setup. at *low* volume, no feedback involved. i'll have to look at your tele tho, thanx!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 6:12:43 GMT -5
4real, you got a fantastic guitar and a very nice style of playing, mature, old rock type of thing. I listened to your sustainer job, very nice. (and kind of weird might i add)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 14:50:57 GMT -5
Just finished the brass nut thing!!!
I have been working today for over 6-7 hours with the guitar, but i got the beast perfect.
i gotta say : incredible sustain and tone, in all except 1st and 2nd strings. They *do* need a spring tree.
The previous nut looked like a complete garbage.
in the mean time, (cause the job involved besides the nut which came as a side project, mainly the debugging of the rails intense buzz-ground wiring, and fixing the tone-pots problems) i was so tired that i thought of getting the tone pots completely out of the circuit. When my wife saw the end result, she freaked out and told me to reinstall the pots immediately even if i dont use them or connect them...
well, needless to say both the standard tone pots are in place and working now, i installed a 0.022 mf capacitor, just cause i have full humbucking sound now ;D
Moral of the story : DO NOT WORK UNDER STRESS
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 7, 2011 16:27:54 GMT -5
Moral of the story : DO NOT WORK UNDER STRESS +1 for spending 6-7 hours working on the same guitar and not garroting yourself with a guitar string... Glad all is right with the world. and the string trees, no matter what flavor, will make a difference on your guitar...and they only take minutes to install... Good work. You have made the transition over to the Nutz side...please return your tray to upright and locked position... Happy Trails Cynical One PS: And to answer your question about IT support, over the past 25+ years it's been PC's, workstations, servers, networking and most recently IP video\NVR surveillance systems for State prisons. My next career move is to become a Central Supply Tech in a major metropolitan hospital...the Luddite in me slowly taking over...
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Post by 4real on Mar 7, 2011 17:14:36 GMT -5
People have often suggested that i should make or mod guitars for other people, but the fact is that it takes 'days' and a lot of frustration, there is a reward at the end of it, but they couldn't pay enough to make it worth while.
Doing the nut thing is to be applauded, filing away at my LPs took days...in fact, I filed right through a pair of jeans in front of the TV! It is no wonder that most guitars have a so-so nut when it takes so much effort to get it just right, too far and you have to start again...and to do it really right, the tools ain't cheap and good for little else besides making this one part!
A lot of this kind of thing, soldering and such, is an acquired skill, like anything (eg playing guitar), needs regular practice. There is generally always something that can be done a little better with each attempt. In more recent times, I even plan this into the process, building things on a cardboard template, running some wires into the guitar to test it...then tidying everything up and installing when I know it works...been easier and better in the long run for sure and saved time in the end, and a lot of stress.
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